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I can record my libtas workflow if you want, because there are useful things that may not be obvious to newcomers. To be efficient you need to know what you want and how to get it without too much overwhelming routine.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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I didn't manually check optimization in #8609: Technoturnovers's Flash K.O.L.M. in 07:08.50 because it looked quick and was visibly faster than the human record. But after #8601: Technoturnovers's Flash Ball Revamped IV: Amplitude in 10:34.15 I decided to take a closer look at this submission, and every room is improvable by working with the game's physics a bit better.
Wiki: GameResources/CommonTricks#JumpingOffLedges describes one example of movement when a game has acceleration, but the same applies to bumping corners in other directions: it slows you down and you have to accelerate again.
Also with double and triple jump, depending on which direction you're moving, you often need to find an optimal frame when to do a midair jump, because after a certain height you start falling. And even if you avoid downward speed, variable upward speed at different points in the jump means you need to keep the highest overall speed across all 3 jumps, just enough to get you on a platform (if you need to jump again ASAP), or around it (if you need to go down ASAP).
I haven't studied the jumping arc in this game (you often need to watch memory for that, or in case of a Flash game, read its code), but let's imagine it's coded like this:
and you need to jump on a high platform, to jump up from it again ASAP. For regular play it feels natural to do regular jumps, and if their height is not enough, do double and triple jumps. But in a speedrun, you end up having too many slow periods in your jumps, because they get slower after the first 3 frames (in our imaginary case), and even slower after the next 4 frames. For that reason, for all the multiple jumps you have to do, you need to test if you can get on the needed platform by only using the fastest segment of each jump (3 pixels per frame), meaning you hit the jump button every 3 frames. If that's not enough, start adding the second fastest segments to each jump until you've exhausted both speeds (3ppf and 2 ppf), hitting the jump button every 7 frames. Only then start adding the 8th frame to each jump (1ppf), and so on.
I haven't done this in my test, because it takes time to figure things out and to test them, while I only needed to try my most basic thoughts on each level, to see how easy it is to improve.
User movie #638328711837129400Link to video
I ended up saving 00:04.08 seconds, but the jumps are absolutely still improvable. Since most of the game consists of jumping and running, I think the opportunities missed in this submission are significant, and I'd like to see a better movie instead. Ideally one that's faster than mine, even if it's only a couple frames saved in each room.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Still, one 3rd party video without a ruffle splash screen is not enough to define a movie rule for all Flash submissions. An FP test on the other hand would be quite conclusive (and verifiable).
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Awesome finds!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Technoturnovers wrote:
Can a TAS of a simulated pinball table be considered an actual TAS of the game itself for cataloging purposes, or is it only a TAS of that particular simulated table? If a TAS of a simulated table is considered a "real" TAS of the actual game, should different versions of the reproduced table be considered different game versions?
Need more info. Wasn't the whole Baby Pac-Man machine some kind of a fixed thing? A TAS of the whole thing sounds legitimate, and versions rarely co-exist as separate branches, because they are usually not too different.
Technoturnovers wrote:
What is considered "accurate emulation" for a simulated pinball table? (In this case the Baby Pac-Man table is accurate in physics as far as I can tell, but that might not be the case for all tables).
The simulation itself looks like a legit video game to me, but I don't know that scene at all to assess simulation quality.
Technoturnovers wrote:
How do deal with the difficult reproduction/syncing workflow?
To elaborate: files required for pinball simulators and VPinMAME cannot be found in the same places as ordinary ROM and emulator resources. The tables themselves are particularly problematic, as in addition to containing the original manufacturer's copyrighted cabinet artwork and thus being unlinkable, they also contain the original work in physics parameters and scripting by the person who performed the recreation effort. As such, rehosting these tables is not allowed, and the original sites that host them require registration in order to download files. Basically, finding the required files independent of any direct aid (which would be prohibited by site rules) is a hell of an adventure, to say the least.
Judges and publishers buy games on steam and similar sites if they have to, so registration is not a problem.
While the setup looks crazy, it would make sense to have a movie that installs everything but the game, and then the game could be different for each actual TAS. That way one would be able to install the emulator (simulator) once and keep that disk image, using it for every new TAS, just like we're meant to keep the image with xp just installed.
Technoturnovers wrote:
Hardest cycle: In Baby Pac-Man, there are only 3 unique mazes; however, at a certain point some of the inner maze walls become invisible, and then eventually they all become invisible, thus defining the point at which the game has reached its hardest difficulty and exhausted all (maze-related) content. However, this goal is not preferable, as it means that time saved by acquiring energizer pellets in the pinball portion becomes highly tenuous, if it saves any time at all, and if the pinball portion is never entered then that means there's no point in not just emulating this via MAME or PinMAME running standalone.
Sounds ok to me, especially if it can make the whole thing simpler.
Technoturnovers wrote:
Score attack: In Baby Pac-Man, the score counter can reach up to 10,000,000 points before rolling over. This offers some interesting TASing potential, allowing for more time spent in the pinball portion for acquiring energizers and advancing the fruit. However, it also risks meeting the goal before all unique content has been exhausted, as the fastest way to reach high-score could potentially entail not reaching the final, all invisible walls maze.
"100%"/All bonuses: There are three types of bonuses in Baby Pac-Man; up to 4 Energizers per stage, the Banana as the top-tier fruit (requiring advancing the fruit 7 times), and a maximum tunnel speed of 8 (also requiring advancing the speed 7 times). As such, it is possible to construct a goal of reaching the hardest stage while maxing tunnel speed, acquiring all energizers, maxing out the fruit type, and finally collecting at least one fruit per stage, thus offering a balanced combination of pinball play and maze play. This is the option I'm currently leaning towards, but it also could potentially be considered arbitrary, hence asking for judge input.
Only things you can collect 100% of would be needed for such a goal. "At least one fruit per stage" sounds like there are more, but they are not important?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Amazing job, voted yes!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Currently the NG game entry uses ruffle too, but I can't check what it was using back then, because even archived copies from 2009 somehow launch it with ruffle too.
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Every new movie format requires a movie parser implemented on the site to display the metadata correctly.
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It's running in ruffle in that video, and running it in FP at a rate higher than the game's reported value would show that it can indeed react faster (or not). Are there records using both FP and autoclicker?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Technoturnovers wrote:
Natively this game really DOES run at thousands of FPS natively
How do you know this?
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If you run it in Adobe Flash Player in PCem, set game scale to 100% while running it on some high resolution monitor, and set monitor refresh rate to 100, does it become possible to click objects every frame and affect them? If yes, that sounds like a reason to allow arbitrary framerate shenanigans for Flash, much like we allowed off-screen inputs (which this run is using I presume).
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Since it looks like redoing the whole run, rather than patching a few places, it would be better to cancel and submit the new version when it's done.
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Awesome game! Though I was only able to reach level 35 in real time, it has great TAS potential due to 4-way acceleration and lots of maneuvering.
So I tested it myself and on the first 3k frames I saved 433 frames, which cost me about 2 hours. I didn't try tweaking the prior movement after reaching level end for the first time, so those should be improvable further.
The main advice is, you need to be more deliberate with your inputs. Since holding a direction increases your speed, you want to hold directions as long as possible before you need to change them.
Another thing is similar to how racing cars use to move in real life. If you need to move around a corner, you could reach it ASAP and only slow down to avoid hitting a wall after it, but instead you can slow down sooner and start accelerating sooner on a straighter travel line.
I made a comparison video too:
Link to video
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Technoturnovers wrote:
There are drivers in MAME, such as Pong and Breakout, that do not require any ROMsets in order to run- you just use MAMEUI or the commandline to launch the game directly, ie, 'mame pong', and it just works. BizHawk, however, naturally expects one to open a ROM in order to want to play a game- is there any way to get around this?
Didn't know about this. What happens if you give it an empty archive named pong?
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Can't you compare them yourself? To me it looked like it was gradually getting faster and faster every room or so.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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It's just game setup, not continuing after some prior completion. And there's no other way to do it right now anyway.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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RaXx wrote:
it is possible to add the test/service menu button for these boards (mk1-mk3) on Tastudio ?
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Technoturnovers wrote:
Is it possible to load MAME builtins in MAMEHawk, main examples being TTL games like Pong and Breakout? Because I find the idea of TAS submissions that have an empty or N/A ROM field greatly amusing
I don't understand.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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RaXx wrote:
Mortal Kombat rev. 5.0
Mortal Kombat II rev. 3.1
Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 rev. 1.2
In these versions the buttons are not mapped, "!" appears in the inputs.
Fixed on github.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Open the game, pause emulation, start the movie, drag-drop this file onto hawk, do the tas.
Alternatively, after dropping the file, save in the game (however it's done) and end the movie. then start new movie from saveram, without the cheat.
To avoid cheat file deletion if you delete the cheat itself, disable Settings - Autosave cheats in the Cheats window.
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RaXx wrote:
Also the plus versions of these roms do not load at all, I don't know if this is where we should talk about this.
Do they work in regular MAME?
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Remaking is not necessary, snes9x core in hawk is still acceptable.
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jlun2 wrote:
I wish to get Harry Potter 2 console verified, but the run would be slower due to more lag on GBA mode. Does that count against using it for a improvement? Do I just make 2 runs to submit to see what judges think?
We don't reject for using a console mode needed for verification.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.