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I'm in favor of this idea under a few conditions:
The parties involved (TASer and payer) understand that their transaction is totally on private terms without any way for the site administrators to control or enforce deals made between two individual parties.
Public bounties should be placed on games/categories that have a decent shot at being published, as the entire reason for bounties should be to increase the quality content of the site. Random categories (uses only weapon X, takes normal route, etc) should just be discussed through a PM.
I don't think a time-line is an important criteria. As long as the person placing the bounty hasn't retracted it, it should continue to be fair game. Still, anyone interested in participating should confirm with the person placing the bounty the terms and conditions before starting. They are, after all, the ones paying the cash.
Since this site is run on donations, I do feel that some of this money could be spent more productively, but I also don't believe that the people who are placing the bounties will have to choose between a bounty and donating to keep the site up and running. If they're that hard up for cash, paying other people to play video games may not be the best investment. So I'd vote no for a site "tax", that just opens an new and ugly can of worms.
As for moozooh's points, I don't see the motivational factor becoming an issue unless the bounties become very big. Most of the bounties thus far have been $10, and even for a short TAS, that's not much of a monetary return on a time investment. Most of these bounties will probably be seen as a minor reward at the end of a large project, in a similar way the end year awards are an added bonus for hard work.
All in all, I don't know how successful this idea will be, but I think it's interesting and safe enough to give it a try. So overall I'm in favor of this thread and the suggestions made by the bounty-ers so far :)
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True, but we always have several members saying there's too much of an emphasis on speed on the site. Family Feud displays a very large amount of creativity in an unexpected way (who ever thought a TAS of a game show could be entertaining?), which is what makes it stand out to me.
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Baxter wrote:
Points of discussion:
Lemmings (I'm planning on giving a puzzle TAS a star. I am not fully convinced Lemmings is the most action packed or entertaining for a first-time TAS viewer, or someone unfamiliar with the game. I am not the only one with this opinion, but there are some strong opinions otherwise, and the response in the submission thread was very positive. I'm currently tending towards giving Lemmings a star, or is there a different puzzle TAS preferred?
Kings Bounty (For some it's the TAS most deserving to be in the star list, for others it's a complete joke that it's there. Is there something like a category 'beats game a rediculous amount faster than intended', and if so, should Chrono Trigger take this star for now? Should they coexist?
Gunstar Heroes / Gunstar Super Heroes Which one is preferred?
Legend of Zelda - A Link to the Past (Just thought I'd bring it up, should Link's Awakening DX obsolete this star, or should the coexist?)
Family Feud (Very popular, and got multiple 2009 awards. The soccer TAS is however already a 'funny TAS', and quite a few other TASes that got 2009 awards were already starred now... should this also get a star?
Golden Axe (Does this TAS still have support for a star? Is some other TAS preferred in its stead?
I never played lemmings, so I couldn't sit through more than 10 minutes of it without becoming very bored.
I think Chrono Trigger wins out over King's Bounty solely for the fact that more people familiar with Chrono Trigger, and they both display a large amount of "WTF is going on?"
I personally enjoyed GH more than GSH, for several of the points that have already been brought up (2 players, more variety of weapons, less annoying shouting).
Zeldas: Either one or both would work, I don't really have an opinion.
Family Feud is a winner for me, I found that movie absolutely hilarious and is likely to be incredibly surprising for a newcomer. ISS wasn't really my cup of tea.
Golden Ax: Meh. I'd prefer one of the other fighting game runs, likely the UMK3 movie.
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Fabian wrote:
JXQ,
I think your OoT commentary sucked. You walked away from the mic for like two minutes. You also watched the video for the first time.
I'll edit in additional complaints as I think of them.
Hope you're doing well otherwise,
Fabian
Fabian,
I think your commentary on JXQs commentary lacked cohesive argument. It also did not deliver in your typical amount of awesomeness. Rating your post 3.4 in entertainment, 5.6 in technical.
EDIT:
-mmbossman
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mklip2001 wrote:
I can't tell where the differences are between the runs if I don't watch them side by side.
Yeah, I tried to do as many things different from the previous run as possible, but the route is so tight that it's not possible to do too much. Thanks for the interest :)
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I guess I should mention to those that haven't seen Aqfaq's movie that the boss I fight is only the level one boss, not the final boss that you're supposed to have to fight to win the game. However, by dying, you are transported outside the boss room as he dies, which somehow triggers the flag for "Final boss defeated". It's akin to beating the first temple in a Zelda game and having the game think you just beat Ganon.
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Nach wrote:
How would you guys feel about it being a concept demo?
No.
If your intent is to use it as an instructional video for new TASers, a link to the submission would suffice. But publishing it is not the right thing to do.
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I promise this project isn't dead yet, just slowly moving along. Currently I'm battling desyncs with the level 3 boss with just over 5 minutes of gameplay done. With this pattern, a full run should be somewhere around 11-12 minutes.
WIP in case any are interested:
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/969914886/level3boss.mmv
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Warp wrote:
The question was whether runs which have been bested by a regular speedrun should be removed.
It may be helpful to assemble a list of known movies that fit this criteria, if for no other reason that to give people more incentive to attempt an obsoletion. AFAIK, Ocarina of Time any% and Actraiser are the only two movies that have been mentioned thus far. Does anyone know of any other TASes that have been bested by real-time speedruns?
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While I agree that a majority of people seem to be against unpublication/deletion, it also appears to me that most people in this thread and in this thread seem to be in favor of getting rid of the two one-track racing games. Will they remain due to the limitations of site coding and/or policy, or will they be dealt with separately?
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Nach wrote:
How come in all this time of arguing no one posted at least a WIP improving some of the games we're talking about?
Oh there have been WIPs... browse through the OoT thread for several examples. The problem is that they have been promised repetitively by a couple members who are very good at TASing that game. These promises effectively kill off interest by anyone else, for fear of pouring hard work into a movie which will *soon* be beat by another TASer. It's small-scale FUD: "We promise that we will make a great new run in the next 4-8 months which will blow your socks off, so anyone else who works on this same project is just wasting their time". It's unfortunate.
As far as the other movies are concerned, what motivation do people have to work on an obsoletion attempt for Combatribes for example? It is one of the lowest rated movies on the site, very repetitive, and long enough to make it a fairly substantial project. Some altruistic soul may decide to work on it because of this submission, but I haven't heard of anyone having any interest at all.
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Angerfist: I'm sorry I discouraged you by stating my opinion, I didn't realize that my opinion mattered that much to you.
You also are confusing an issue: I never said that Guanobowl's movie was embarrasing because he made it, or because it was particularly sloppy when it was made. It's embarrasing because it can now be beat by a huge amount by a real-time speedeunner. For a site that specializes in beating video games fast, that is embarrassing. If anything, the fact that it is embarrassingly slow by today's standards should provide more encouragement and motivation to obsolete it, not less.
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Get off your high horse angerfist, not everything I say has to be sunshine and rainbows. Guanobowl has stated on a couple occasions that he has no intenion of improving OoT due to the birth of his daughter. And AKA et al have been saying they'd improve it for almost two years now, with several restarts and no real progress. Last I heard, they wanted to wait for mupen plus, which hasn't shown any progress for a year either.
There's nothing wrong with admiting that there are some subpar movies published here. I don't get hurt if someone says they don't like one of my movies. Stop putting words into other peoples mouths.
As for your complaint about me "forcing" you to do a 2 player movie, it's fully unfounded. 2 player runs are usually more fun than 1p movies, and your only reason for not wanting to do one was because your keyboard couldn't handle the input, which is a horrible cop out and excuse.
Keep to the issue at hand, if you want to berate me about how I don't give everyone the special olympics treatment, then send me a PM
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Regarding Nach's question: pehaps a similar manner as the un-grued submissions underwent? A separate thread could be started for people to nominate movies and allow people to second them. Then a decision could be made to open the submission thread up to discussion. After 1 month or so, an admin could make the final decision. Make it an occurence every two years at he same time as a submission revival thread to take care of both issues at the same time. This also shows casual members that we are willing to reconsider options for both sides (rejected runs that should have been published and published runs that should have been rejected)
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I'm amazed I'm about to say this, but...
I agree with Warp.
Retuning candidates to the workbench for discussion and judgement is how we've dealt with submissions and previously grue-d submissions, it would be the natural place for discussion to occur regarding unpublication. Discussion leading to a judgement is the basis for our system already, and I don't see it failing for a decision as serious as these.
