Posts for xenos


Post subject: Re: #4088: Lord Tom's N64 F-Zero X "Death Race" in 00:29.55
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Lord Tom wrote:
This TAS completes the F-Zero X Death Race as quickly as possible, improving the prior TAS time of 8.927 by Katsukawa Sojuro aka Xenos.
Lord Tom wrote:
Note that 2s of "improvement" are due to the stylistic choice of the prior author not stopping the timer early by falling off the track.
That wasn't a stylistic choice as you could have found out from the forum thread. I just didn't think it was worth uploading a video with a trivial change. The prior TAS time should read 6.993.
Lord Tom wrote:
This movie choice has been brought up in the forums a couple of times, but never really drew direct commentary either way.
I was of the view that this run didn't deserve it's own category so I never tried to submit anything. I thought that if this run would ever make it's way onto TASVideos it would be as part of an all time trial.
Lord Tom wrote:
The movement of the first two cars destroyed seems driven entirely by which ship you choose. There are only 3 or 4 patterns; Golden Fox gives the best pattern where both cars break immediately to the middle. Crazy Bear, Mighty Hurricane and Great Star (heavier high boost cars) give bad patterns. Also, GF is heavy enough to kill easily, and lighter weight = faster steering - obviously important for this challenge!
The movement of the cars is determined by random factors other than the car choice. I managed some good results with Twin Norita but never finished that run. The lighter cars get faster boosts from collisions but don't seem to be handicapped in killing other racers in a TAS.
Lord Tom wrote:
I use the wide-angle view because it's easier (for me and viewers) to see what's going on. And quite a bit is going on - ships get flung everywhere when they die and can interact with both the player and other ships, making planning, patience and experimentation crucial.
The wide-angle view makes it harder to see what's going on as you can't see what's happening up ahead. The standard view also makes the video more chaotic in a way befitting of this race.
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was0x wrote:
In-game boost acceleration is very affected by lag in this game. If more lags are made, acceleration will make lower. This happened in xenos wizpig TAS with TT. or you can confirm this at start boost. you will get nearly 90km/h in emulator but almost impossible in console. I think mupen can't emulate lag correctly and no inaccuracy other than lag.
If you watch that wizpig video frame by frame you'll see I only boosted to 60km/h. TT's normal sliding speed is >90km/h which accounts for your observation. The start boost is affected by which version of the game you use (50Hz vs. 60Hz), possibly by whether the game is started from a clean savefile, and a few other random factors. Sometimes it's possible to get to 90km/h on an emulator, other times it isn't.
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I doubt that any emulation errors of the sort discussed exist in this game given that I haven't noticed any errors in the emulation to date. If there were any problems, I would expect the staff ghosts to desync (unless they're not stored as button presses which is unusual for racing games). The speed gain of the hovercraft through snaking is related to how much the hovercraft is turning and hence how far the control stick can be turned. More control stick movement also gives better handling among other things in all the vehicles. As for the boosts, their duration is effectively random and small changes in driving can result in a much longer or shorter boost by mechanisms I don't understand. Comparing them between console and emulator is therefore difficult. More testing is needed but I remain skeptical. If a new run were done, I'd be in favor of using TT and just playing through to the first credits in order to skip the 16 redundant races. The four battle/challenge stages would also be skipped in this case.
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A familiar picture.
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I've already finished, as a matter of fact. Here it is, 72 frames faster than the current run. An additional 2 frames were saved via better lag reduction in 4-1 and 40 frames in 4-3 by defeating the two bosses faster. Coincidently, the score lost by taking a faster route was made up for by gaining points elsewhere leading to the two runs having the same final score.
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I made a test run of this game (link removed) that finishes 21 (or 20?) frames faster than the current run. I borrowed some input from TheAxeMan for the final three levels to save me some time in making this. I'm not sure if any more time could be saved by manipulating the bonus worlds some more but I suppose there is still this potential. Also, don't watch this movie unless you find faster transition cutscenes or framecounts exciting. Edit: On second thoughts, ignore the previous. I found a faster route that saves 30 frames over the current run. Additionally, I made the beginning of a run that shows the first part of this route up to 2-3 which can be found here. There also exist some places to gain more points as summarised below. 1-1 200 1-2 300 1-3 100 2-1 100 2-2 100 2-1 was completed 6 frames faster but at the expense of 1800 points.
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I decieded to give this game a spin to determine the suitability of this game for TASing. As it turned out, this game is much harder to TAS than I initially suspected and beating any of the WR's remains quite a difficult task. Nonetheless, I managed to come about 0.1 seconds ahead of the best polt f8c first lap but as you can see, it's not going to go much lower than this. Incidently, polt was used because unlocking BLS would take too long. Video of the aforementioned run.
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wazkatango wrote:
Sorry to be changing the subject, but I've noticed a problem that I can't get around. I was thinking about the possibilities of a Adventure 2 run, and I found out that when I select 'Adventure 2' from the screen, the file for the Xenos' (to the second credits) run is darkened, and un-selectable. The funny thing is, there is the same problem with my N64: I got all the trophies, Wizpig and TT amulets, keys, balloons, beat Wizpig 2 multiple times, etc., and it still won't let me do Adventure 2. It will let me do the tracks in Track mode however.
You can't choose an adventure one file from the adventure two selection. You need to start a new file in adventure two in order to play it. Of course, an adventure two run would be in the same category as a TT run i.e. one that must start from a savestate or the like and isn't feasible under the current scheme of this website.
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jaydin wrote:
Hi, I tried to tas pt1. I think I loaded a bad ROM cause there are invisible objects in the game. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyJhHA6Pqag accidently deleted some savestates during the tas: -after finish line of 1st lap -and finally at 3rd curve 2nd lap which made me finish after 2hours of work:D I'd love to see a pro-tas of pt1. Maybe it's possible to reach 3000 @first dtd?
Just a few points from me: -You should have used the Blook Hawk instead of Mr. Yellow. -Many turns were taken too wide and while you can go faster doing this, you lose out on distance. -The DTD could have been faster. There's no point in gaining lots of speed if it takes you too long to do it. I briefly contructed a lap 1 on Port Town with this in mind so I suggest you beat me (with a better DTD in particular; watch the WR videos) before going any further.
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xenos wrote:
Here's a similar problem, easier than the one above but perhaps worth mentioning for its nice, elegant solution: determine the number of solutions to a1+a2+a3+...+an<=x for all n and x are non-negative integers.
That should actually be for all an and x are non-negative integers but I don't think this would have cause any confusion. As none seemed to have solved it yet, I'll put up a solution lest nobody else does. The answer is (x+n)C(n) = (x+n)!/(x!n!) which simply comes from a balls and urns argument. To visualise this, we imagine x+n objects in a row and we choose n of them to become dividers which will separate the x remaining objects into n+1 groups. The first n of these groups represent the different values of an while the final group can represent any of the integers less than or equal to x. For example, if we had a1+a2+a3+a4+a5<=10, we could have the sequence O_OO__OO_OO_OOO which represents the solution 1+2+0+2+2=(10-3)<=10. Here, the final group is 3 so the other groups combined equal 7 so you can see that by varying the final group, we can have a1+a2+...+an equalling any number from 0 to x and hence we have the solution set. (solution hidden in small font)
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Here's a similar problem, easier than the one above but perhaps worth mentioning for its nice, elegant solution: determine the number of solutions to a1+a2+a3+...+an<=x for all n and x are non-negative integers.
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Comicalflop wrote:
This is the reason my testing was unsuccessful. I only tried dropping in 2nd place to get 1 star, and at a future point of reference, 1 star made me behind using shrooms only. 2 stars would surpass that.
Though in fairness a single star only loses 1.3 seconds compared to the 3 seconds you suggested, if I interpreted your statement correctly.
Comicalflop wrote:
I'm fairly confident that you'll get a faster time using 2 stars, assuming you cut corners more, and slide constantly (and use that analog stick wobbling trick).
Stars only behave as a 27% speed boost unlike mushrooms that change the driving mechanics completely thus it is better to MT. Incidentally, I made a complete run of MMF using the double star strat. It is obviously improvable but not by much, if I understand this track correctly. Inferior viewing / superior viewing.
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Comicalflop wrote:
I just heavily tested the star strat that was suggested. It is FAR slower. I was a good 3 seconds behind most of the time, and really lost out at the end... I got a star to last all the way to the 4th set of item boxes, but at that exact time, I had, using mushrooms, completed the 1st lap.
An old citation, perhaps, but a potentially dubious claim nonetheless. Granted that the provided m64 is unoptimised, one may very well suggest it is indeed faster to drop into second place to gain better items.
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I produced a test run (though not intrinsically improvable) of KD to test one of the two feasible routes on this course. While the difference between the two is slim, I personally would favour this one. Convenient clickable hyperlink.
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I made a test run of a new (to me at least) but predictable strategy on MR. Who knows? Perhaps we can eventually turn this game into SMK.
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After a short hiatus, more work has been done and the run is gradually coming along. I redid AL for obvious reasons with a slightly different strat to save about two seconds plus FC to go with it. Run.
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I took a second attempt at Hoth (after the first a long time ago) and wound up with a 2:19 on Jedi difficulty. There's an obvious mistake in this run that I only caught after replaying that section and didn't really feel like redoing it all. I used Napalm for the intro but Jabo's for the battle as that oddly enough provided a better quality on only this one level (the others are completely broken; you'll know what I mean if you see it). The direct input or youtube for those who hate good quality.
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samurai goroh wrote:
There are a few things I probably would had tried (maybe you did), like falling off the loop when you're at the top & then go back (only for the 1st lap), but think I remember JKT mentioning it wasn't useful. The next thing, would be to fall off & go back to the track after passing the loop, if done correctly, it should give you a little more speed (only for the 1st lap). The last thing regards on the 2nd time you fly, I remember that you can keep more speed falling earlier, or am I wrong?
I tried the first but if you note the geometry of the loop, it should be clear why that trick would be very difficult if not impossible. Falling off the track is not as useful as it seems as you lose speed when coming back on but I suppose could be used to gain small amounts of time if done just right. It was mentioned that you could release A for the second DTD to drop lower giving you a better landing angle but I decided to not complicate an already difficult maneuver.
Comicalflop wrote:
Xenos, did you try experimenting with my speed preserving trick?
Yes and I'm certain no such trick exists. Perhaps you would care to demonstrate the trick while not preserving a speed lower than your maximum.
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I ran Sector Beta but with little luck in the way of new strategy so it was only 1.5 seconds ahead of the WR.
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Warp wrote:
In theory the death penalty reduces the amount of people in jail, without releasing them to harm the citizens. In practice, however, even in the US the amount of people on death row is minuscule compared to the total amount of people in jail, so abolishing the death penalty would not increase economic costs significantly. Thus in practice there's not even an economical reason for death penalty.
Though you have already conceded that the death penalty is not economically sound, it is worth noting that life imprisonment does not necessarily entail greater expenses; indeed there is evidence to suggest that the death penalty with its associated additional court proceedings and numerous appeals could well place imprisonment as the cheaper alternative. This is, however, a moot point as even in the case that the death penalty were frugal, killing people to save money is morally suspect, it would seem.
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Nice work, Apo123 in an apparent role reversal. It was also nice to see that the movie synched which I was wasn't expecting too seriously. In terms of improvements, as you may know now, it is probably a better idea to avoid any damage at least until the penultimate stage, such are perils of jedi mode but everything else was quite good and optimal as I had hoped. That reminds me, there have been claims that jedi mode is not actually the hardest difficulty level and that hard mode is more difficult. This idea has arisen as the result of the jedi enemies requiring only one shot for death while the hard ones are far more resilient. Jedi mode is more of a realistic mode in this sense so any claim that this movie "plays at the hardest difficulty level" is disputable; just a point of interest, I suppose.
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A small amount of progress in this game. I decided to run the second phase of Gall Spaceport (the first part is exceedingly long and would bore you to tears (unless, of course, you were some sort of robot (robots don't have emotions as you may know (although we can't discount the possibility that a sufficiently advanced robot may be capable of accurately exhibiting human feelings (such a possibility, however, is quite unlikely as the extent of human technology has not allowed for even seemingly trivial tasks like walking to be performed (note the keyword "human" technology which allows for the notion that some form of alien technology may presently be in existence and is capable of replicating emotion (a scary thought indeed as this would have dire ramifications for humanity)))))) due to the large amount of game that can be skipped there. A link to a video that appears to have some serious sound desynchronisation due to the fallibilities of youtube and certainly not due to any fault of my own.
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Ah, I must remember to check these boards more often. I watched your WIP and as a matter of personal preference, I think TheAxeMan mostly had better stylistic choices than your run did (I would probably be one of the few to notice such nuances, however). Then again, I think the run would look best if Mario was airborne as much as possible though even though most would find that repetitive and annoying. On another note, I found that Mario behaves unusually when auto fire down is used so it could make for some interesting downtime and in 3-2 it is one frame faster to get the second mushroom before the pipe cannon (either that or TheAxeMan lost a frame somewhere else). Other than that I can't think of any more improvments nor have I resolved the bonus screen mystery. Anyway, good luck with your run if you so choose to continue.
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Comicalflop wrote:
Xenos: Again, awesome vid, but again, I think it can be improved some. At this point, do you think you want to complete the entire run on your own using the level of optimization you've been doing, or would you be willing to work as a team that tries to optimize absolutely everything?
Given that this game has not had a run published, I think it prudent that the first attempt of this game should not be one of optimisation but rather a demonstration covering all known techniques with the reasoning that new strategies shall inevitably be conceived in addition to the various smaller refinements that would make such an attempt at perfection futile. We can create a set of inputs, look at it and say "that's optimal", but it won't be and I think you are being naive in thinking that you can "absolutely optimise everything" especially without already having an archetype with which to compare it. Theoretically of course, one could redo the same track a multitude of times to circumvent the need to create such a predecessor but I find such repetitive approach tedious and ineffectual in light of my aforementioned premise. In short, I could work on a team that attempts to TAS this game but not one with the specific design goals you seemingly have in mind.
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I redid Luigi Raceway and beat the test run by six seconds, or so. There is still a small room for improvement but I don't think there would be any drastic changes to what there is now. I didn't go for the best mylestyle at the end because I didn't have the speed and there was a trade off between that and jumping the wall closer to the finish line. Video.