Post subject: Dino Crisis
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Joined: 3/27/2010
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This is a thread about the first Dino Crisis video game, for the second one feel free to come back later :) arukAdo told me if I did grunt work (research and stuff similar) for this game, he'd be willing to help me TAS it. So I'm doing just that. Here I will list all of my research, so it's on here for people also interested. ~ There are no SDA runs of Dino Crisis, however there is a speedrun of it, which can be found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjztEQekuLs&feature=feedf Notes: The TAS will obviously beat the time of the speedrun, by removing human errors for one. This TAS also will not be that difficult, as it's like Resident Evil, running door to door. I'll refer to parts of this game by where they stand in parts of the videos, since this game doesn't have levels. 1. Part 1: Killing the Dinosaur will be faster because if you don't kill it, you get a cut scene which waste time. Cut scenes can't be skipped. 2. Part 2: Run past the T-Rex, like in the video. HEAD would also be inserted faster, as well as the safe numbers. Same for NEWCOMER. 3. Part 3: Use Gail's Idea? 4. Part 4: Let the guy die, otherwise you get to watch a cutscene. 5. Part 5: Gail's idea again? 6. Speed RAM Address:000AA506 -Stop = 0 -Walk = 1 or 2 -Run = 3+ Parts for easy reference: 1) Lock Numbers 0426 - Custody Room 8159 - Lounge weapon storage locker 705037 - The room adjacent to the Lounge ) 7248 - Computer room (Opens the gas chamber room.) 1218 - Stabilizer design room (Use this code on the panel the get the upgrade parts for the shotgun.) 367204 - Forgot which room to use this one. (It is the room where you'll get the parts for the stabilizer and initializer.) 0367 & 0204 - Stabilizer & Initializer Assembly Room (Use the first code in the computer terminal & the 2nd one in the thing that looks like a large vending machine in the corner.) 2) DDK Codes HEAD NEWCOMER LABORATORY ENERGY WATERWAY STABILIZER DOCTORKIRK 3) Registration Numbers Paul Baker - 58104 Mark Doyle - 57036 Dr. Kirk - 31415 4) Gas Combinations RED -defeats-> GREEN BLUE -defeats-> ORANGE GREEN -defeats-> PURPLE 5) Bonuses ARMY & BATTLE COSTUME - Beat the game the first time under 8 hours. ANCIENT COSTUME - Beat the game the second time under 8 hours. INFINITE GRANADE BULLETS - Get all 3 endings. OPERATION WIPEOUT - Beat the game under 4 hours. 6) Puzzles and what not :p *First generate puzzle: center, right, center *Stack Puzzle: Left Clear/white stack, Grab the bottom C/W pair, move it to the top, Grab the C/C, move it to the top, Right Clear/Red stack, Grab the bottom R/C pair, move it to the top, Grab the R/R pair move it to the top. *B3 crane puzzle: 2R, H, 2L, Release. 3F, H, 2L, 1B, Release. 2R, 3F, 1B, H, 2L, Release. 2R, 3F, H, exit *G,R,R, pause for the meter to climb to the fatal mark and then G,B. (if necessary???) *Crane Puzzle: Fastest way, 2 forward, 1 left, 1 back, hoist, 2 right, release 2 forward, hoist, exit. There is also a mini game that can be unlocked, so that can be a "play around" TAS maybe? Important TAS info: 1. You don't really have to be hugging the door to open it, you can be a few frames away. 2. Cutscenes place you at a predefined spot when they're over, so it'd be a good idea just to trigger the cutscene asap. 3. No speed penalty between handgun and shotgun, also when without a weapon, you move the same speed as if you had one, so unlike in Resident Evil, this isn't a factor...though have yet to test G. Launcher. 4. When entering keypad numbers it takes 2 frames of input for it to register to move , and 2 frames of waiting to be able to move it again. Same with DDK. 5. During the first danger scene, if you push buttons like a maniac, you save alot more time than if you push nothing... Testing on others currently Other: 1.Speed FAQ More info later, just making this thread as a placeholder for now. (Also, alot of this info is just for me to refer to when I mess around with this game)
Joined: 1/23/2007
Posts: 77
Location: Montreal
Hey, for your interest I never did any TAS but lately I've been enjoying playing in slow speed and getting everything done on 1st possible frame so I am sort of TASing this game when I want to kill some time and this is so far what I have done. https://www.dropbox.com/s/7hdj4o2nud4pn5e/AjAX%20Dino%20Crisis%20TAS.pjm (Done on latest PSXjin and the Original Game which I ripped myself, so you'll need the 1st version of the game - US) I don't really understand this though: Speed RAM Address:000AA506 -Stop = 0 -Walk = 1 or 2 -Run = 3+ What does that means? Also, And I came across a Key input Delay just before entering the ''Head'' room, so I guess I'll have to redo this because I have no knowledge on fixing key, although I know that I can open the movie in notepad and change Input but I don't get any Frames Numbering or some sort of calculations to edit it. I could keep you updated on it but this is no hardcore TASing cause I really am noob with this speed running type. Thanks :)
Former player
Joined: 3/27/2010
Posts: 270
AjAX wrote:
Hey, for your interest I never did any TAS but lately I've been enjoying playing in slow speed and getting everything done on 1st possible frame so I am sort of TASing this game when I want to kill some time and this is so far what I have done. https://www.dropbox.com/s/7hdj4o2nud4pn5e/AjAX%20Dino%20Crisis%20TAS.pjm (Done on latest PSXjin and the Original Game which I ripped myself, so you'll need the 1st version of the game - US) I don't really understand this though: Speed RAM Address:000AA506 -Stop = 0 -Walk = 1 or 2 -Run = 3+ What does that means? Also, And I came across a Key input Delay just before entering the ''Head'' room, so I guess I'll have to redo this because I have no knowledge on fixing key, although I know that I can open the movie in notepad and change Input but I don't get any Frames Numbering or some sort of calculations to edit it. I could keep you updated on it but this is no hardcore TASing cause I really am noob with this speed running type. Thanks :)
I'll take a look at it :p ... The RAM address for that means what it says, though if you're asking what does RAM mean, Random Access Memory... Well it's basically the part of the game that tells if she is moving, or not, and how fast. It changes randomly, and after testing different things, that's what it was. Could you specify what you mean by the key input delay you found? Edit: I couldn't really get the thing to sync, but... If you don't care, could you make a avi of it and put on youtube?
Joined: 1/23/2007
Posts: 77
Location: Montreal
Well, that's the sync thing I am talking about, and ahaha, I WAS actually making a movie and it desynced after 10min and 11 sec so I just don't know what to do now.... EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GWbrsrBBhE
Former player
Joined: 3/27/2010
Posts: 270
AjAX wrote:
Well, that's the sync thing I am talking about, and ahaha, I WAS actually making a movie and it desynced after 10min and 11 sec so I just don't know what to do now....
The file you gave me keeps desyncing probably a second after you gain control of her :d, I'm not much into hexing, so whenever I have a desync I just redo a part, but I usually replay my movie quite alot to make sure no desnycs have occured, thankfully for us, Jin isn't desync prone like some emus, so, I'm guessing you might need to redo everything past the point that desnycs, or figure out how to hex properly without messing up anything (when I do hex, it messes it up, like getting input going frames too soon or something). Whatever works really xD, don't want to say to redo the entire thing if it's a burden though, but truthfully, if you can't get it working hexing, then redoing it might seem like a faster, and easier way xD Edit: Nevermind lmfao, waiting for that to be processed ^^ Edit#2: You could redo the parts just right before the desync (preferably like 3 seconds or so before it happens make a save state, and redo past that).
Joined: 1/23/2007
Posts: 77
Location: Montreal
well this is gonna suck but I guess I have no choices. It's processed now, no sound though couldn't get it to work sorry !
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Joined: 3/27/2010
Posts: 270
AjAX wrote:
well this is gonna suck but I guess I have no choices. It's processed now, no sound though couldn't get it to work sorry !
On youtube I posted how you could get sound on your videos, and have better quality then whatever you did to record that :p ... It should be a comment on that video. Anyway, it isn't necessary, but it definitely beats rechecking to make sure it works constantly, if this was something like... Say you did the entire thing, and you had like 1 desync there, then it'd be better to try and fix the desync through hex, but if it is just a few minutes, on a game like this, then it's no biggy to redo it... However, if it was something like spyro, where you'd have to redo an entire level.. That might be different. But most of Dino Crisis is running door to door :p Anyway, I'll be awaiting your progress, and I'll try and pick up and improve bits and pieces of it (if possible)
Joined: 1/23/2007
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Location: Montreal
Sure thank you! And well, I used this site guideline recording in 320x240 44.1 khz and thing so I couldn't get a better quality unless I break the rule which I could for now since it's only for showoff and if you want HD well I can do this too I don't mind :) EDIT: And as for Frame Whoring like you said, I pretty much think it's optimal, I played the door opening part frames per frames and mash my controller like crazy lol so yeah I think...
Joined: 1/23/2007
Posts: 77
Location: Montreal
Ok' I redid and I made it back to HEAD's room now. It would be nice if somebody could tell me if it's possible to go to a certain Frames without the use of save state so I can record a video, watching the begining all the time is time consuming! EDIT: Also, shin's run is 2 min faster than the run on youtube, although it contains death abuses, I shall see what is faster when I get there, SDA forums indicates me that shin die because of some sort of Clock timer rewind, I don't really know about that yet, This or difficulty adjustment... EDIT: WIP So far http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk-mWeArDfM Now With Sound!
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Joined: 3/27/2010
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AjAX wrote:
Ok' I redid and I made it back to HEAD's room now. It would be nice if somebody could tell me if it's possible to go to a certain Frames without the use of save state so I can record a video, watching the begining all the time is time consuming! EDIT: Also, shin's run is 2 min faster than the run on youtube, although it contains death abuses, I shall see what is faster when I get there, SDA forums indicates me that shin die because of some sort of Clock timer rewind, I don't really know about that yet, This or difficulty adjustment... EDIT: WIP So far http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk-mWeArDfM Now With Sound!
Death abuses are fine... though whenever I die I just go back to the last room I was in, instead of the current one. Care to explain what you mean then xD? Though since a TAS wants the hardest difficulty, we can't use easy, so if Shin is using easy, then we shouldn't count that, though if bits and pieces are faster, that's different. As for the WIP, I put it side by side with LucianoRX's run, and bits and pieces of his is faster than yours, whereas after syncing them back up (such as the first frame you can see an image after opening a door), bits and pieces of your WIP beats his. Which it is possible that lag on my cpu is involved, but I really doubt it. You should try on your side, you always want to be able to beat a speedrun of the game with the tools you have. And, uhh sadly, I don't think so on fast forwarding to a certain frame... If it has that option, I've not found it. Though here is something you can do: - Save states 1-4 use for your actual working space of a room. - Save state #5 use right before you open the door to that room ^ (incase you decide to redo it completely). - Save state #6-9 use for key points in the movie. I see no need to use any save states (whenever you actually get far into it) before the first DDK device. (I'd actually use SS #6 the frame you can see the menu to insert HEAD)... Be sure to only use these save states when you have "read-only" ticked on. PSXJin has bullet proof recording (AFAIK), so it won't rewrite your work if you accidentally open these with read-only off, though, it doesn't hurt to be on the safe side, and furthermore they're just there so you can skip chunks of the run :p on re-watching. As for your desync problems, I'm not sure if it's the game, or your emulator settings. I'll try a movie of me playing DC later for like 30 minutes and see if I have a desync. Though considering in my playthrough I'm doing on youtube of FF7, which itself is a long game anyway, I've yet to have a desync in over a million frames (4 hours 50 minutes to be exact), so it's a big possibility the settings you're using. Care to specify everything you're using?
Joined: 1/23/2007
Posts: 77
Location: Montreal
Sure here they are: Graphics: Window Mode: 1024x786 Stretching: Scale to fit window Dithering: Always dither g-shaded polygons Framerate: None are ticked but: use FPS LIMIT and auto-detect FPS/Frame skipping limit Options: Scanline Disabled Use system memory is ticked That would be really weird to be beaten by a normal run I took care of Playing at 6% speed for most part and not hugging any wall unless It boosted me.... EDIT: And you misunderstood what I said about Shin's run being on a easier difficulty settings, IT IS easier because it's a jap version of the game and most jap version of any survival games are most of the time EASIER than US version. As for the death abuse thing, I am pretty sure that he dies severals time so this way the game «evaluate» your playing and drops the difficulty for it, which I also think you didn't understand. :) EDIT 2: Also he plays on a Playstation 2, and if you didn't know that already, ps2 has a fast loading mode and texture filtering that you can put on ON booting, doors load faster and camera switches faster, that may be what makes you think that he is faster than me. Those things has been proved at SDA.
Joined: 1/23/2007
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Location: Montreal
Former player
Joined: 3/27/2010
Posts: 270
AjAX wrote:
EDIT 2: Also he plays on a Playstation 2, and if you didn't know that already, ps2 has a fast loading mode and texture filtering that you can put on ON booting, doors load faster and camera switches faster, that may be what makes you think that he is faster than me. Those things has been proved at SDA.
For the graphics I use no dithering, maybe that might be your DS problem? (Just a guess). As for the above that I've quoted you, that's not exactly what I mean I mean more like at 3:30 in your WIP 1 where you curve around, instead of turning, then running straight, which is 6-9 frames faster. Edit: Just a note, for things like that ^, I suggest we just use the current run you're doing right now as a prototype instead of something for submission, as it's best to use frame advance, instead of slow down. Though if you want to submit it before hand, it's no problem, but as there are known improvements already, it might (and probably will) get rejected. As for the 2nd WIP watching now.
Joined: 1/23/2007
Posts: 77
Location: Montreal
I seriously don't see the point of playing this game frame by frame, I play at 6% speed now which is like 4 frames per seconds.... Anyway, I wasn't planning to submit this run anyway, like I said I never did a TAS this is a learning curve experience for me :) WEDIT: That would be cool if you could tell me every mistakes I did, some I may be able to explain why it is done this way and other things I might have completely overlooked, I'm a Real Time Speedrunner after all so I'm not use to this sort of running! Thanks
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Joined: 3/27/2010
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AjAX wrote:
I seriously don't see the point of playing this game frame by frame, I play at 6% speed now which is like 4 frames per seconds.... Anyway, I wasn't planning to submit this run anyway, like I said I never did a TAS this is a learning curve experience for me :) WEDIT: That would be cool if you could tell me every mistakes I did, some I may be able to explain why it is done this way and other things I might have completely overlooked, I'm a Real Time Speedrunner after all so I'm not use to this sort of running! Thanks
For the below: tl;dr version: Frame advance = Good Slow down = bad Even though frame by frame can on some games be highly annoying *cough* MediEvil *cough*, some games, like Super Mario World, make frame by frame the way to go, as you can be 100% sure you're perfect on your TAS, as you know you did everything asap. The only reason MediEvil is a bit different is, it adds a aspect that MANY MANY MANY of the TAS's on this site don't even have to worry about, both 3D and a auto movable camera, and at the same time you have free will to change the camera (and they're not predefined camera angles like Super Mario 64). Ofcourse, knowing that, it still didn't give me the right to not use frame by frame recording, so I made the best of it, by using it. However, since most games aren't like it, Dino Crisis being one of them, we can fully get the fastest time possible, without going nuts with every small motion of the camera. So, the point in frame by frame recording is to get to know for sure you're getting everything perfect, though it's not always needed, like if you're running straight, you're going to reach the same point whether in frame advance or not, though this changes when you're about to open a door. Since DC allows us to open doors frames before even reaching it, you can open the door slightly faster with frame advance than without, compared to 6% slowdown speed. Though I do want to say is, I'll definitely (probably with the help of arukAdo too) improve this for you in the end, so you shouldn't worry on that aspect, you can join in too :p. I'm more of both, I enjoy doing TAS's, and speedruns, but some of my TAS's (on youtube, though I've taken them off) aren't perfect, some are, but that's until I go out and compare to others, to find they are not :p. Unfortunately (I'm still surprised MediEvil was a TAS before it was a speedrun, and if it was a speedrun before a TAS, I've never found it) for me MediEvil had nothing to go by, so I had to do a ton of research with help of a guy on here. But DC has stuff to go by, and something to compare to, which is why TAS's can be much more difficult than what you think they can be, because what you think is the fastest possible, might not be. I know DC is no Super Mario 64 where it has a huge community to completely frame whore it, but it helps to try to get as fast as possible on everything, retry everything more than once, if you find that you've done something faster than everything you've ever done, retry many times to beat it. If you find you can no longer beat it, then take it as that, though be sure that you have tried your hardest, because (even though you said you aren't submitting, say you were) if you were to submit that, and it was accepted, it could be obsoleted by a guy who either found a new route, or who optimized your part that you didn't. I'd re-watch your movie a few times for things that look like they're kinda bad. I know when I watch MediEvil (it's my only currently real TAS), in the lake level I jump and curve around an enemy, it looks bad, but the reason why I did it was to avoid damage from the fish that jumps up, and avoid hitting the jumping over fish (guess that's what you'd call it)... Though I'll be sure to tell you everything (like the tiniest thing I find) that can be improved, even if it's a frame >.>, later when I have time to look ~Torn338, writer of extremely long sentences (Y)
Joined: 1/23/2007
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how much input can I make into one frame to open a door, if I say I was smashing my gamepad like crazy to get it open ASAP, i just don't get it, door sequences and puzzles pass and shits are done using 1% speed, as for the rest well it depends. but you can count on me to not make use of frame advance sorry.
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Joined: 3/27/2010
Posts: 270
AjAX wrote:
how much input can I make into one frame to open a door, if I say I was smashing my gamepad like crazy to get it open ASAP, i just don't get it, door sequences and puzzles pass and shits are done using 1% speed, as for the rest well it depends. but you can count on me to not make use of frame advance sorry.
It's simple, say I can open a door at frame x, and with 6% speed, even when smashing a button like crazy, I have a slim chance of opening that door on the first possible frame, where as with frame advance I have a 100% chance. Since we know that if using frame advance properly, you can get it 100% of the time on the first possible frame we'll exclude that. Now saying that you have a slim chance of opening that door on the first possible frame, we could go ahead and add in the many frames in that second (60), and of that 60, say 30 (half) are possible to open said door. A 1 in 30 chance (a 3% chance) of opening it on the correct and fastest possible frame. And if we say that starting from the first possible frame within that second (all 60 frames), a 1 in 60 chance (1.6% chance) of opening it on that. Frame advance massively outnumbers those odds as you can see. Those few frames here and there don't seem like much, but they add up, and quickly, resulting in seconds lost when finished, not to mention other things that could be done on the first possible frame, which could add into minutes, or in a run like FF7 or FF8, hour(s). This has been confirmed due to games that have lots of text, and in some cases, people use Japanese versions of the game because of how fast the text goes across the screen, and obviously because of this sometimes the American and Japanese versions can't be compared. Simply put, TAS's are made to be as close to perfect as possible, to make people say "Oh my lord, how?!", to stun, amaze, and entertain, they don't have to be ASAP, but in a run like DC, it'd have to be. Speedruns and TAS's are different, because speedruns are done by humans, where TAS's are done by humans, tools, robots, slow down, save states, frame advance, lua scripts, RAM watches, manipulation, and what not. Generally using frame advance doesn't mean things go slow, in this game for example all loading/cutscene you don't have to frame advance them, also if you use fast frame advance its really like doing slow motion. A speedrun can never be 100% perfect, TAS's can be (though don't mean they are), that's why it's necessary to use what you have to make something amazing. Though it's not necessary as you're just showcasing, if you decide to submit anything, use it.
Joined: 1/23/2007
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Location: Montreal
Again, I just told you that I open all door using 1% speed which is 1 frames per second. And Again, not all door can be opened a few frames before, this is something strange I found running this game, some doors requires you to kiss them and others you can be 8 frames away. EDIT: Can I go back in the run to «patch» some mistakes without deleting all of it?
Joined: 1/23/2007
Posts: 77
Location: Montreal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_JINgG7YPo This is part III, I managed to cut out a screen transition at 7:54. :D
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AjAX wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_JINgG7YPo This is part III, I managed to cut out a screen transition at 7:54. :D
Nice find, though does that make it any faster? (Like lag control or something?) Once again about the mistakes, there isn't any pjm movie editors, but maybe manually doing it through hex would work, though that might also mess up the movie... =\ Maybe someone else could tell you better.
Joined: 1/23/2007
Posts: 77
Location: Montreal
Lag control? And yes it is faster since screen transition takes about 7-9 frames approx (I should check that), plus 2,3 frames of walking in the next image frames and the button mashing to open the door = around 15 frames shaved! EDIT: Yeah I might just let you do the real movie in the end, like I said I did not plan on submitting this run, it's a personal pleasure, since I wanted to do Real Time run of DC 1 and 2 6 months ago (I Played those games in rotation 2 times a day during 1 full months back then ahahha) so yeah, I'm eager to see how much seconds you will save in the end anyway :)
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AjAX wrote:
Lag control? And yes it is faster since screen transition takes about 7-9 frames approx (I should check that), plus 2,3 frames of walking in the next image frames and the button mashing to open the door = around 15 frames shaved! EDIT: Yeah I might just let you do the real movie in the end, like I said I did not plan on submitting this run, it's a personal pleasure, since I wanted to do Real Time run of DC 1 and 2 6 months ago (I Played those games in rotation 2 times a day during 1 full months back then ahahha) so yeah, I'm eager to see how much seconds you will save in the end anyway :)
Uhm, Lag Control is controlling lag, things that make the run slower :p. By the way, I think we all can agree the DC 1's TAS will be alot like the speedruns of it since there isn't much room for major improvements. Though DC2 will be alot better, since the money system thing is involved ;]. I'm guessing (and guessing big) that if this type of thing is possible on more than just the door, that'd save alot of seconds :D (more than just frames here!!!!) ... Haha yeah I'm not that excited about it, but I'm excited that that's a good possibility. Also man, if you don't mind, in the end could you upload the final movie file for me (and maybe others?), it'd help out on the comparing part. I'll probably start on finding the mistakes then, so it's not like you have to redo all of this, it's just like showing potential it has :p, and yeah I'll do the full run with arukAdo if he's still game (*cough* he'd better be... Kidding :D).
Joined: 1/23/2007
Posts: 77
Location: Montreal
To be honest with you, Dino Crisis 2 run will be a huge pain in the ass for you cause you'll have to control spawn point of each raptors for maximum money and time saves, trust me I ran that game A LOT, it's all about being lucky. And what do you mean uploading the movie? EDIT: In the end if I really like doing this type of speedrun I could do this with you. EDIT: Game Information SLUS_00922 EDIT: https://www.dropbox.com/s/7hdj4o2nud4pn5e/AjAX%20Dino%20Crisis%20TAS.pjm (PSXjin Movie, note that it doesn't desync on my side)
Joined: 5/14/2007
Posts: 525
Location: Pisces-Cetus filament
AjAX wrote:
And what do you mean uploading the movie?
He is asking you to upload the .pjm somewhere to share it with him when you finish the run.
AzumaK wrote: I swear my 1 year old daughter's favorite TASVideo is your R4MI run :3 xxNKxx wrote: ok thanks handsome feos :D Help improving TASVideos!
Joined: 1/23/2007
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Location: Montreal
Thank you, it is done now look at my old post :)