Player (192)
Joined: 4/27/2012
Posts: 109
Me and a few friends are collaborating on a Crash Bash tas. It seems very interesting, and would be very entertaining to watch, simply because of how hard the game usually is and just seeing us destroy the game. The main problem in this game is the major luck manipulation. Almost every level including the title screen includes luck manipulation. Route: We currently only have a route for the first hub, but the problem is the gem/crystal collecting route. Everything seems kinda sketchy atm. Hopefully we can get a pretty optimal route.
I wumbo you wumbo he she me wumbo
Editor, Skilled player (1275)
Joined: 1/31/2010
Posts: 327
Location: France
The main entertaining problem is that the trophies are basically 3 times the same actions in each level (same problem with the relics). However all the crystals in the game (and some gems) would be really entertaining to watch.
Warepire
He/Him
Editor
Joined: 3/2/2010
Posts: 2174
Location: A little to the left of nowhere (Sweden)
I am just as lapogne a bit worried about entertainment, but I am sure you can manage to find a solution. I wish you good luck and I will be looking forward to WIPs.
Spikestuff
They/Them
Editor, Expert player, Publisher (2254)
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6324
Location: The land down under.
Warepire wrote:
I wish you good luck and I will be looking forward to WIPs.
Thanks :D. Also keep a look out on my archive channel it will most likely be showing up there. On another note during the time of a 1 player (3 tassers) any% tas I will be doing (if you don't look at my Signature) a solo 2 player any% tas on this game too. Should also mention it's a Good vs Evil tas I'm doing as I have a good character and an evil character to tas with at the end I will make a poll on here and ask which character do you want to see win for good vs evil.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. These colours are pretty neato, and also these.
Joined: 4/29/2012
Posts: 21
Location: Petrie Land / Germany
Spike, Matt, Ricker, I will help ye out if needed. Maybe I can give you some advise. I with my 184% save file of this game =\ But seriously though. And have fun thinking of the entertainment part on level like Pogo Painter (pretty much the timed levels in which you have to score as much as possible).
Spikestuff
They/Them
Editor, Expert player, Publisher (2254)
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6324
Location: The land down under.
Edit: Pull generated a route Warp 1: Polar Panic - Gem + Crystal Jungle Bash - Gem + Crystal Warp 2: Tilt Panic - Gem + Crystal Pogo-a-Gogo - Gem Space Bash - Gem + Crystal Desert Fox - Gem + Crystal Warp 3: Melt Panic - Gem + Crystal Snow Bash - Gem + Crystal Metal Fox - Gem + Crystal Dot Dash - Gem + Crystal Warp 4: Manic Panic - Gem + Crystal Drain Bash - Gem + Crystal Jungle Fox - Gem + Crystal Toxic Dash - Gem Ring Ding - Gem (This edit removed a video that's been removed for a year and added all this... first page material >.>)
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. These colours are pretty neato, and also these.
Spikestuff
They/Them
Editor, Expert player, Publisher (2254)
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6324
Location: The land down under.
Since Vault is open I'm no longer going to procrastinate. That is the fastest I got gives me Brio and Rilla Roo with the RNG. The question is, slow & fast character or slow & slow character. Also, should it be brio and not coco. Coco is the faster moving character (same speed as Crash) and if input to move up needs to be added then Rilla Roo become Dingodile. Thoughts. Yes, I know speedrunnners use the more brute characters in their runs. Edit: Waiting Times 0 Frames Brio and Rilla Roo 2 Frames Cortex and Coco 9 Frames Rilla and Coco 11 Frames Brio and Cortex
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. These colours are pretty neato, and also these.
Patashu
He/Him
Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4000
The guides I read on gamefaqs suggest that from best to worst the characters are Tiny/Kong, Brio/Cortex, Crash/Coco, Dingo/Roo. So maybe move P2 onto Kong and go with that? Also, while watching a crash bash 200% speedrun (the WR is over 20 hours lol) the suggestion was brought up that N.Ballism Platinum needs a TAS for being the hardest platinum to get in the game, so if you feel like doing a one-off (I assume this TAS will be any% to minimize repetition) that's something you could try
My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu
Post subject: [1:28:57 AM] Pie: Whos crazy enough to plan and tas this?
Spikestuff
They/Them
Editor, Expert player, Publisher (2254)
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6324
Location: The land down under.
Pull passed this on to me part of an any% route for first Warp: Polar Panic Gem + Crystal Jungle Bash Gem + Crystal Also the length of each levels: Polars > Crates > Tanks > Pogos > Balls Link to video Okay so the reason I'm showing Crash Ball now instead a whole warp room is because Polar Panic is the next level and it's a pain to do. In the first minute you see me braging I need to get the ball slot so go towards me (It was always that one I tried manipulating it). I do teasing movements with either Kong or Rilla Roo to RNG the AI to allow the ball to go through their goals. This doesn't work all the time but it was most of the times. 1:51 shows a good example of it working. The reason why I'm focusing on both characters instead of one is because the other can screw the team-mate over. 3:57 was intentinal as Rilla actually has to do the final shot and I had to manipulate Dingo 2 ways; Move down and stay down. If I did a gloat during that as Kong, Dingodile would've hit the ball (this is about 0-20 frames after hitting the ball). Question something now for me to check or it will be like that. Level time 3 Minutes, 1 Cup a minute Entering Polar Panic I clipped the ground and speed was increased for a short amount of time.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. These colours are pretty neato, and also these.
Warepire
He/Him
Editor
Joined: 3/2/2010
Posts: 2174
Location: A little to the left of nowhere (Sweden)
Unless you can manipulate so that more balls spawn on "your" half of the level, I don't see how you could improve on that Crash Ball match. It looked very solid to me.
Player (19)
Joined: 5/22/2012
Posts: 26
Keep in mind for a TAS you can manipulate speedshoes/boxes in the pogo levels making those gems VERY quick. Also, I find Crash to be the easiest to use-spinning TNTs to kill things is effective and faster than a throw, you can charge with the polar bear more frequently (and it's strong) and tanks are the only place where he's lackluster. Dingo/Rilla Roo play the same way in crates, a lot worse in bears and can have 2 shots out at once in tanks. Kong/Tiny have the best tanks, which is why I'd think that a (Crash/Coco)/(Tiny /Kong) team would be best. I could be wrong on this, but that's my 2 cents from playing.
Spikestuff
They/Them
Editor, Expert player, Publisher (2254)
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6324
Location: The land down under.
I have no name wrote:
Keep in mind for a TAS you can manipulate speedshoes/boxes in the pogo levels making those gems VERY quick. Kong/Tiny have the best tanks, which is why I'd think that a (Crash/Coco)/(Tiny /Kong) team would be best.
Oh I know that already. The only reason Tiny/Kong is a good combo is because they both have same stats for good and evil. Making the tas drag on longer due to this.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. These colours are pretty neato, and also these.
Spikestuff
They/Them
Editor, Expert player, Publisher (2254)
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6324
Location: The land down under.
-Video Deleted- Information not required.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. These colours are pretty neato, and also these.
Spikestuff
They/Them
Editor, Expert player, Publisher (2254)
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6324
Location: The land down under.
Link to video Since Warp Room 2 is taking forever I'll just show off Papu Papu. It will still be place WIP 2 once Warp Room 2 is done. Yay, a proper way to end Warp Room 1
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. These colours are pretty neato, and also these.
Warepire
He/Him
Editor
Joined: 3/2/2010
Posts: 2174
Location: A little to the left of nowhere (Sweden)
Looks good so far. A few entertainment related questions: Did you try to manipulate the Pogo Painter so that the opposing team would never score any points? This is very tricky in real time and would be fun to watch for at least one Cup. During the Jungle Bash, did you check if delaying entering the level gives you better box-patterns for faster winning? During Papu Pummel, I would have liked to see some more playing around while waiting for the mini-Crashes to spawn. If you aim to go for entertainment as much as possible, WIP more often than complete warp rooms so that it will be easier to implement feedback. Note for the Bash that occurs on the roof (forgot it's name), manipulating the enemies to fall down the holes is really effective, if I remember correctly it's insta-kill.
Spikestuff
They/Them
Editor, Expert player, Publisher (2254)
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6324
Location: The land down under.
Warepire wrote:
Looks good so far. A few entertainment related questions: Did you try to manipulate the Pogo Painter so that the opposing team would never score any points? This is very tricky in real time and would be fun to watch for at least one Cup. During the Jungle Bash, did you check if delaying entering the level gives you better box-patterns for faster winning? During Papu Pummel, I would have liked to see some more playing around while waiting for the mini-Crashes to spawn. If you aim to go for entertainment as much as possible, WIP more often than complete warp rooms so that it will be easier to implement feedback. Note for the Bash that occurs on the roof (forgot it's name), manipulating the enemies to fall down the holes is really effective, if I remember correctly it's insta-kill.
Manipulation has been kicking me so far during this tas. I got what I could so far. So killing Koala Kong is not the way to go... dammit Space Bash, I will also try and chuck in some glitches in that level too.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. These colours are pretty neato, and also these.
Warepire
He/Him
Editor
Joined: 3/2/2010
Posts: 2174
Location: A little to the left of nowhere (Sweden)
Spikestuff wrote:
So killing Koala Kong is not the way to go... dammit
That was the best part of the fight.
Spikestuff
They/Them
Editor, Expert player, Publisher (2254)
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6324
Location: The land down under.
Now I'm still alive (obviously) but I herd someone else might be tassing 1 player. With perfect menu this is the normal (frame 0) Frames: 0 - N.Brio 2 - Coco 4 - Cortex 6 - Rilla Roo 8 - Coco (then loops) With delay during the select screen it's the same still. 6 frames is better to lose than changing characters as it wastes more time. But doing something prior to hitting X changes the order. (I Placed 2 frames of Up and got Cortex) Edit: Adding 4 Extra frames of input on first menu gets Rilla Roo. The 4 extra frames are the arrows at the very beginning (before the first X) Link to video
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. These colours are pretty neato, and also these.
Joined: 2/9/2014
Posts: 12
I can show you this video I made it could be useful for you: Link to video
Spikestuff
They/Them
Editor, Expert player, Publisher (2254)
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6324
Location: The land down under.
I forgot to mention I have dropped the 2 player as it was bloody annoying to deal with. Screw you Warp Room 2!!! STV_Brozer your TAS is nice. I have not finished watching it. WR is 2hr 3mins for single player with Koala Kong. So I'm going to say your TAS is improvable but it's a nice time for a benchmark.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. These colours are pretty neato, and also these.
Joined: 2/9/2014
Posts: 12
I know it's improvable :)
Spikestuff
They/Them
Editor, Expert player, Publisher (2254)
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6324
Location: The land down under.
STV_Brozer wrote:
I know it's improvable :)
The main issue with it is that you used PAL. That being said... Look at this, for saving frames while choosing another character.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. These colours are pretty neato, and also these.
Spikestuff
They/Them
Editor, Expert player, Publisher (2254)
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6324
Location: The land down under.
Well then: Link to video Sadly this is just first round though...
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. These colours are pretty neato, and also these.
oxysoft
He/Him
Joined: 9/27/2015
Posts: 48
Hi there. I've been interested in TASing this game and I thought I was doing pretty good after I had done the first two rounds of the first minigame's trophy, then I saw that video posted above from the japanese guy. Obviously I'm not manipulating the rng nearly enough. I don't think I have the patience to go to such lengths, trying to manipulate the rng blindly like that so it got me thinking, what if we found certain data within the ram like AI information and where the next ball is going to come out of, etc. A lua script could be made after that to render on the screen this data and it would cut down on the fiddling a whole lot. I spent about an hour looking for valuable data 2 days ago but I was unfortunately unsuccessful in all of my searches. I'm gonna try again tonight and hopefully find something edit1: So tonight was a productive night. First, here is the result of my researches http://pastebin.com/a1HA1Y7A. I was able to find some interesting information from the ball managing system as you can see, as well as addresses from the first ball slot (which are not in this research document, I added them in a watch and was too lazy to update the document) There are some cool things I found. First, where the next ball will spawn is determined the very frame a ball is scored. This frame can be determined by finding the addresses for the score of the players (not the rendered score! the actual score in memory) and find the frame it decrements. At that frame, a value is set at the address 0C1F16 which turns out to actually be equal to the side of the player that was scored, and does not actually tell us which corner the next ball will spawn but which side's corner it will spawn (so 2 options) The next frame, the ball is created in memory at its spawn corner so this address isn't that useful in the end if we draw the balls on a TAS minimap. However, this is where things start getting kind of sketchy: At first it seemed that the first ball slot is always positioned at the same offset in memory. Once I had that, I started looking for the second ball and when I found it, calculated the offset between the two (from the X position as the anchor) and I thought I could find the other slots just by offsetting by that many bytes but for some reasons, the resulting addresses did not seem to match with data from the third, fourth, etc. balls on field. I was able to confirm this by using the ram search and found that the X and Y position of the third ball were curiously shifted a bit below. Furthermore, the addresses I had for the X,Y of the second ball did not correspond to any ball later on in the game, and neither did the addresses of the first ball. So the ball structs seem to get shifted around and it doesn't seem like they follow each other in memory either. So I hit a wall as of now and I'm still trying to think of an idea. I tried to search for pointer references to these structs in memory but couldn't find anything. Here is a picture of the TAS minimap as of now http://i.imgur.com/w2YZBzc.png (don't mind my messy watches) edit2: Today was a productive day! I studied a bit of assembly for the first time (with MIPS instruction set of course, the one used by the playstation) and learned how to use the r3000 debugger that comes with pSX 1.3. From there, I reverse engineered my way into finding where the struct for a ball begins. It turns out that it begins 32 bytes before the X value is defined; In other words, 4 dwords earlier. (pun unintended!!) Using that knowledge, I was able to find that the address 0x05A978 contains a pointer to the latest ball spawned on the field. I tweaked my lua script to take that in account and this is the result A minimap that shows the field and balls From there, I can start programming the projected path a ball will take and then perhaps reverse engineer the enemy AI and find addresses describing future movements, but this is obviously much easier said than done.
Spikestuff
They/Them
Editor, Expert player, Publisher (2254)
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6324
Location: The land down under.
Link to video I'll be releasing these stage by stage I guess.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. These colours are pretty neato, and also these.