This topic is for the purpose of discussing #410: mazzeneko's SNES Final Fight 3 in 21:48.38

In Final Fight, Guy was the weakest of the three characters. Has that changed? "Few miss punches" is quite noticeable. Not recommended. Often, you attack a guy, knocking him down, then you run to the center of the screen and run back to him after he gets up. What does this accomplish?

I voted no. IMO beat 'em ups just don't make good timeattacks. A big part of the action happens out of screen and basically it's just repeating the same moves over and over (and even if every single move in the game was used, it'd still be boring). I doubt I will ever see an entertaining beat 'em up timeattack (save for River City Ransom). Anyway, I'd say my no vote is about 20% your fault, 80% game's fault. You hesitated, missed punches and it was evident that the boss battles could have been done faster. You don't start hitting the bosses immediately after they get up. At some points you also didn't use your super immediately after getting it even though you were not saving it for anything better. You should have used it as soon as you got it so that a new one would have started forming. Oh, and I think you should have used those special moves you mentioned even though they consume your health. It would have brought just a tiny bit of diversity into the movie. In conclusion: you could not have salvaged this game. My vote would still have most probably been no even if all those points I mentioned were corrected.

Kyrsimys has a point there, 80% games fault, you can not salvage it from an entertainment point of view. Only people who have played this game would probably get any entertainment out of it, and I am not one of them. Also the fact that you beat up most of the opponents off the screen, and that you use the same moves every time (which again, may be a limitation of the game), kinda gets repetitive.

Well then just don't watch this game if you don't like Beat them up games. It's true that this video is boring NOT BECAUSE IT'S A BEAT THEM UP GAMES but because he uses Guy and do always the same moves. There's some platform games that had been published and found them more boring than this so .... Like MM 3-6 which look the same as 1 and 2 to me. Btw I didn't watch them because I knew I will be displeased. So guys stop being "sadomaso" when you know you don't like this game. Anyway, Final Fight 3 is so easy that someone can do a 2 player timeattack controlled by one player. With this and diversifying moves, no errors, personally, I think it should be published.

I'm in agreeance with Phil here about beat-em-ups. Generally it's best to go with a multi-player timeattack for them, unless it's something known to be insanely hard on single-player like Streets of Rage 2's Mania difficulty (which is still one of my favorite movies on this site). This movie shouldn't be published, but an optimized, 2-player Final Fight 3 should. Oh yeah, and I'm almost positive Guy is not the right character choice. Haggar probably would be the best, then Dean if it's a 2-player, but I'm not too sure of that. -Josh

I haven't seen this run either but I think I can agree with both Phil and you other guys. I agree to Phil because some of us do like beat em ups, or different types of genres. And I agree to the rest of you because I don't personally like beat em ups that much. Except playing them that is. And I guess I should get that emu soon so I can have proper opionions about the runs ;)

I'm with kyrsimys. I haven't seen this one(and obviously haven't voted), but I'd probably vote no due to not finding beat em up's entertaining, except RCR and Streets of Rage 2(due to variety of moves, etc). And battletoads if that's included. But, how entertaining a movie is obviously open to interpretation. edit: fixed kyrsimys' name because I used to slaughter it, then spelled it right once, then screwed it up again.

I'd like to add one vote to the "Beat em ups can make interesting time attacks" side. I haven't seen this one.

Hmm, the double playing is a nice idea, but there's a slight problem. When I press too many buttons at the same time it doen't register all of em. I tried to make a double-play Parodius run but it just doesn't work. Nasty stuff.

I voted NO on this run because it generally isn't good enough. You use those SUPER-punches poorly, throw punches when you're not supposed to, unless it has something to do with manipulation, but I doubt that. You actually miss punches etc. You beat enemies in an ineffective way some times. I don't see why you should run back and forth at some places. Seems only annoying. If you plan to redo this run, please take more time to really plan this game throughly. Also.. This game would be alot more interesting if there were two players. Might be hard to do, but as I said, more interesting. Cheers and good luck mate! :)

Hmm, the double playing is a nice idea, but there's a slight problem. When I press too many buttons at the same time it doen't register all of em. I tried to make a double-play Parodius run but it just doesn't work. Nasty stuff.

It's a keyboard limitation. Some combinations of buttons just can't work. Try and test different buttons.

You mean map them diffrently?

You mean map them diffrently?

Yeah

While mapping them differently helps, I think I read in some thread here awhile ago that it has something to do with the different rows and columns of the keyboard- there can really be only so many combinations, and I don't think there are nearly enough to support most 2player runs. Although, each player will probably only be pushing 3-4 buttons at a time.

This game rocks and I think a timeattack is actually very entertaining, but voted no because of quality issues. You've done a decent job, but there's too many spots for improvement. I really did enjoy seeing this done with no hits. Guy is really cool here and you've done a good job with his combos. The missed punches really have no purpose. It looks like you got much better at the end, so try it again. Since I started doing these myself, I've found sometimes it takes another iteration for a good timeattack. There are also many times where you knock down an enemy offscreen with very low life where you should have found some way to finish them. Would it be faster to throw enemies into the middle of the screen so you can get more hits on them without pushing them offscreen? Is the special really worth the time it takes? The fireball and beatdown are my favorites, I was happy to see they got at least token usage but I can see how they don't have much place in a timeattack. Also, I'd have to say it would be cool to see a 2-player version, not sure who the second would be. Haggar+Guy kicks ass playing regularly, but don't know if his moves are good for timeattacking. Might be the best option though as Dean is even slower and Lucia is weak. Guy will still probably do most of the work though, so who knows? Well, good luck with whatever you decide.

I generally follow Truncated's rule of timeattacking: Always make AT LEAST two versions of a run before submitting. The only one of my exceptions to this is Monster Party (mainly because I had another movie to study beforehand), and even that's stretching it because I had to restart in the middle of it twice. What AxeMan said is very true, you tend to find things to improve as you progress through your first run (and often after that). I would agree with Phil's recommendation and suggest you give this another shot. 2-player would be the best, and I'm still thinking that Haggar/Dean would be the best team. Look at the Streets of Rage timeattacks here, in both of them the character who deals the most damage turns out to be the best. -Josh

I don't think a game should be excluded because the genre is unpopular. Perfection is perfection, so I say if you can get a "perfect" time attack, publish it. If people don't like it, they don't have to watch.

I just watched it and it wasnt not bad at all. I agree that if people dont like this genre then simply dont watch it. If you are gonna make judgement, then do it on the performance, not for wich genre the game is.

I don't think a game should be excluded because the genre is unpopular. Perfection is perfection, so I say if you can get a "perfect" time attack, publish it. If people don't like it, they don't have to watch.

The genre is plenty popular. What's at issue here is entertainment, not to mention questions as to whether or not a different character (or characters) would increase speed or entertainment. As it's been often said, even if a game is fun or very hard to play, that doesn't mean a time attack will be fun or impressive to watch.

there is no way to really prove that a game is more entertaining than another, since entertainment is a subjective and individual experience. Not every game will be liked by the same group of people, so it is a mistake to assume that one game is more entertaining than another simply because a large group of people say so.

You don't start hitting the bosses immediately after they get up.

On most beat-em-ups, the bosses will get up hitting you if you are too close, so he has to wait 2 seconds untill their invulnerability is over. just guessing, i have this game but haven't played in a long time and didnt watch the run either, but it's a capcom beat-em-up they must have continued the tradition about bosses advantage while getting up ;)

You don't start hitting the bosses immediately after they get up.

Actually, the reason for this is that several of the bosses have a jumping stomp attack which they always do when they get up--but apparently only if you are in range. It looks like mazzeneko avoids this by being out of range when they get up. Very smart, I think this is the right thing to do.