Post subject: Valkyrie Profile
Joined: 1/14/2005
Posts: 216
Not only is this my favorite game on the PS1, it wouldn't be a poor speedrunning candidate either. Obviously it's a bit of a blow that the long intro and recruitment cutscenes can't be skipped, but on the other hand, most of the game is completely optional. I haven't actually done any test runs yet, and I won't have PS1/2 access until the fall, but I'm throwing this out there to see what anyone thinks. I heard a ballpark figure someone gave of 8-12 hours or so, but I know that is way off. I am thinking the fastest route would be Easy B ending, excluding the C ending of course. In Easy, you are limited to less skills, characters (not an issue), equipment, and level 1 items (no Creation Gem/Jewel). However, the enemies are a bit weaker and your guys actually come with levels (also probably not as issue since you'll be sticking with early Arngrim, Jelanda, etc). You do get Guts and Auto-Item, and you can receive from Odin and divine yourself decent enough equipment. The A ending is much cooler, so of course it deserves a run in a separate category, but B has to be faster. For A, the killer is getting Mystina, which requires a whole 'nother dungeon (Tower of Lezard Valeth). Luckily, you get Creation Gem and then Jewel from that dungeon, but I can't remember what would be useful to make by that point. You'd also have to watch a lot more cutscenes, including Lucian and Mystina recruitments, Lucian transfer, Loki stealing the Dragon Orb, etc. (The one advantage is the final dungeon is a lot shorter.) So if I or anyone else were to do this, he/she would probably try the B ending first. I don't know how many optional dungeons I would do. I would get Arngrim's Dragon Slayer, so probably dungeons with dragon bosses like Dragoncastle Caverns, and fighting Dragon Zombies inside Caves of Oblivion sounds like a good idea too. Normal has a couple more dragon bosses, but dunno if that's worth enough. About the fourth character, ideally it would be someone with useful equipment you can get afterwards, like Nanami. But really, it would most likely come down to figuring out who has the shortest recruitment cutscene. I think that when you get characters is set when you start the game and not when a chapter starts, so restarting to get Chapter 2 Nanami would be quite annoying. Finally, I am a big fan of mages in this game, but 2 mages is a little suboptimal as you don't get to fully exploit either Sap Guard/Might Reinforce or Spell Reinforce. Chapter 2 Janus and a Raven Slayer might be another option. Ok, that's it for now.
"I think happiness is just being able to loaf without stress." http://speeddemosarchive.com/
Joined: 5/20/2005
Posts: 78
Location: switzerland
im a big fan of this game too. But i think a dongeon speed runs can be great hi tombs of amenti ?
They say one should not speak unkindly of the dead, so I say Nice try! Tas planned. Dino city Secret of mana
Joined: 1/14/2005
Posts: 216
Blackpearl wrote:
im a big fan of this game too. But i think a dongeon speed runs can be great hi tombs of amenti ?
The problem with doing something like that is that it would be unfair since the time would depend on the levels of your characters. Someone on SDA casually suggested a 100% Seraphic Gate run, but while it at least starts from the title screen, even that has the problem of being dependent on levels. And I'm not sure it would even look much like what the suggester wanted, because a speedrun wouldn't bother using Lezard, Brahms, or Freya. Anyway, by your avatar, I can see you're a big fan. ;)
"I think happiness is just being able to loaf without stress." http://speeddemosarchive.com/
Joined: 5/20/2005
Posts: 78
Location: switzerland
The 100% seraphic speed run is a idea form me (yes is me on sda). Level is not realy imporant , exepct some for Lezard , brahms and Freya (for skill). And i need the golden egg for freya and some weapon. The ony problem is isera queen at the end. and i have one another speed runs , for suikoden 1 -7 hours with all stars (i think 6h50 can be possible). And a time run for a "shity game" caled jurassik park form genesis. Il will make the vp one in last in think
They say one should not speak unkindly of the dead, so I say Nice try! Tas planned. Dino city Secret of mana
Joined: 1/14/2005
Posts: 216
Blackpearl wrote:
The 100% seraphic speed run is a idea form me (yes is me on sda). Level is not realy imporant , exepct some for Lezard , brahms and Freya (for skill). And i need the golden egg for freya and some weapon. The ony problem is isera queen at the end.
Ok, the levels comment meant, since you start with the levels of the save file, it wouldn't be possible to make this a standardized run. You'll notice that all the runs here and on SDA don't start from saved files. Lezard, Brahms, and Freya would not be in a speedrun because they come at preset levels, and with no skills. Even if we were to neglect the time it would take to Experience Orb and set skills, they would not be as good as the characters you bring in, at least on the first trip. If you really want to see the secret characters used even though they would not be the fastest, that is what is called an aesthetic run, not a speedrun. Oh, and I don't see how fighting Iseria Queen would be a problem. Isn't that the objective? And you have to fight her anyway if you'd want a 100% map completion.
"I think happiness is just being able to loaf without stress." http://speeddemosarchive.com/
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 152
Location: Australia
O.o Hmmmm, you talking about me here??? lol
G1MM3 4 BR34|C!
Joined: 7/12/2005
Posts: 4
hmm lol a speed run in valkyrie profile would be sleeping through everything and then making it through the end somehow [of course ive never gotten to the end :o]
Joined: 1/14/2005
Posts: 216
chubbz wrote:
hmm lol a speed run in valkyrie profile would be sleeping through everything and then making it through the end somehow [of course ive never gotten to the end :o]
While this certainly would do an even poorer job than usual of covering the game comprehensively, I don't think this would be annoying to watch (compared to say powerleveling in an FF) since it goes by quickly. It would also be very funny seeing Freya's comments as you continue to, um, underperform. ;) Chapter 0 would still be there of course, and the final chapter would be exciting too as your guys would be extremely underleveled. Of course, an A ending run would have other dungeons, such as Tower of Lezard Valeth. I haven't done any more work on this, by the way, but thinking about it, it does seem like the answer to "who should be the 4th character?" would be "nobody." =p
"I think happiness is just being able to loaf without stress." http://speeddemosarchive.com/
Joined: 1/14/2005
Posts: 216
Apparently Josh the FunkDOC responded to my thread at SDA and is going to do this. The thread is here.
"I think happiness is just being able to loaf without stress." http://speeddemosarchive.com/
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 706
Location: Elyria/Oberlin, OH
Alright, I'm doing this. I don't care if this site doesn't accept it, there's always Youtube - I just want to see it done, and I already have the tech knowledge from doing the real speedruns. However, the last time I TASed anything was years ago and I have no idea how memory viewing or any of this other new advanced crap works. Any help with that side of things would be much appreciated! As you might expect, I'll go for the Easy mode B ending first (which won't be any different strategically from the speedrun) and see how I feel from there. Really, a 100% run would be by far the most interesting to watch, I think, but that would be a gargantuan project...
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
I've never played the game myself, but a friend of mine who has always claimed that "Hard Mode" was easier than "Easy Mode" after the first few levels, largely because you got to confer massive bonuses on your PCs through items that weren't available in "Easy Mode". So what exactly are the differences between the different difficulties? What's your reason for picking "Easy mode B"? Normally we say to go for the hardest available difficulty unless that doesn't add anything to entertainment (e.g. a brawler where hard mode just doubles every enemy's health, or a platformer where it just removes checkpoints/makes the player die in one hit), but it's entirely possible that you are picking the "hardest" difficulty...
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 706
Location: Elyria/Oberlin, OH
The differences between difficulty levels lie in characters' starting exp levels (highest in Easy, always level 1 in Hard) and available dungeons. Easy mode does not allow you to achieve the A (best) ending, and only Hard mode has Flame Jewels (needed to unlock characters & equipment in the post-game bonus dungeon). Additionally, the first dungeon is quite a bit shorter in Easy mode. Enemy stats are actually exactly the same on all difficulty levels. I can see his argument, since lower levels give you more room to manipulate stat gains from level ups (which are somewhat random), and the Creation Gem/Jewel (which allow you to make the best weapons etc.) are not available in Easy, but I don't see any of that coming into play in speedruns. That being said, levels don't even make a difference in the B ending strategy, so I can pick Hard without a problem there. Even for the A ending, the levels may not matter since you shouldn't need Guts or any other skills...leveling up Jelanda's traits to transfer her in the beginning is the only potential hurdle that I see.
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Joined: 11/26/2006
Posts: 115
Dont bother with this one, really. I heard that some Japanese guy did a 100% SINGLESEGMENT run on hard! No way a TAS can be any more entertaining than watching someone that played around 5 hours in one go to perfection. All other categories are done on SDA, too :) and Easy mode is cheap...
MezzoDragon
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Joined: 5/27/2007
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Really?! Cool! Is there a Youtube link or something?
Joined: 2/12/2009
Posts: 12
nahh, even if this guy did 100% in one go, a tas video would still be cool to watch, as long as it has, perhaps, a good number of bugs/exploits. and is better not be 100%, just the more fast possible. and isone of the best games of play1, I did almost everything that can be done on this game. I even decide to kill the freya before the last fase (you know, revenge for her killing the group of herous so easily if you run out of time). I played on hard and evolved the best possible before the last moment that you can fight her (before enter the last chapter). then I fabricated the best equipament that could be made on that time on the game and get 99 healing itens before the fight. I don't know if there was a better way to defeat her, but my way result in a fight that lasted, by what I remember, some 3+ hours. then I ran out of my 99 ressurect itens but still was able to defeat her... to be rewarded with... the same death scene (she reporting to odin that she have killed my group, hahaha)
Joined: 11/26/2006
Posts: 115
Do as you please :) I wont watch it though. Hard mode A Ending fastest way way already done on SDA, so nothing new there...I can hardly think of ways to be faster, really. But good luck!
Joined: 2/12/2009
Posts: 12
don't say you will not watch, because maybe on the process some cool bugs and stuff would be discovered that would make it cool to watch. but on the other way, if the result don't appear that will be to much different from the one on the SPA... then it would be better not do this tas.
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 706
Location: Elyria/Oberlin, OH
Yeah, I'm the guy who did the single-segment A and B runs on SDA, and I heard about that 100%. I'm just interested in finding out what the fastest theoretical times are, that's all. Don't know of any really cool time-saving bugs in this game, unfortunately, and there isn't a lot of platforming in A or B runs anyway. =/
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Joined: 2/12/2009
Posts: 12
unfornately, since it's not one action rpg, it probably will not "shiny" on a tas, unles some really cool+hard to do bug/glitch/exploit arise (if exist). or... if you use your imagination to surpreend and stuf, hahaha. but just quit the project if you dosen't see a good reason to do it anymore (unles of course if you said that you will do it, so, to not lie, you will have to do it)
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
Hey, I'd watch it. Valkyrie Profile has a much more interesting battle system than most RPGs do, and I usually find TASes to be more entertaining than human speedruns.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
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Joined: 2/28/2006
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Yeah, Valkyrie Profile is like that: super cool battles and super boring dungeons.
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 706
Location: Elyria/Oberlin, OH
Have to disagree there bro, the game has cool dungeons but they only matter in a 100% run. =/ And VP is my thing, so I'm doing this whether it be for this site or youtube.
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Joined: 11/26/2006
Posts: 115
I was literally shocked when I played Hard after Normal and discovered there were entirely new dungeons there, with new graphics even and innovative and such...that makes it one of those great games for me! Especially genevives palace is gorgeous...finally I could let her bite the dust after she killed that poor Einherjar, her name i forgot ;)
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 706
Location: Elyria/Oberlin, OH
So for whatever reason, the game refuses to work after I pick a difficulty level. It used to before, not sure if this has anything to do with any new plugins or bios I used.
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
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Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
Innovative? Where? Except for that weird maze house, all the dungeons are way too similar, just with different graphics (maybe some wandering statues and and a swamp).
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.