A game of the side scrolling beat-the-kuck-outta-everyone genre. Like Final Fight, but better in every way.
I'm doing exploratory runs to see which character is the fastest and gathering other information, such as memory addresses and attack power. Here's a test run using "Ninja". I'm guessing the finished version will look much better than this test, and run ~20 minutes altogether.
Go Ninja, go Ninja, go!
I use the Japanese version. It contains Japanese alongside Engrish, not that there's actually anything to read in the movie. The J version is better because it features the kunoichi enemy type. Other versions replace the girls with more of those pain in the ass dwarves. I'm guessing they were removed in the localizations because... well, it's a bit masochistic to have small women being pulverized by a giant robot.
Anyone keen on seeing a proper TAS of this game, or is it too boring?
What are your reasons for choosing Ninja? It seems that the girl is a bit faster, though I'm not too familiar with the game. How much testing have you done with other characters?
I did a fully frame-advanced version of level 1 with Ninja. Came to about 7500 frames on the fadeout.
Basically, he does more damage, requires fewer knockdowns, and his jet-slide makes him go about as fast as Kunoichi. Kumaitachi got through level 1 in about 8500.
I should probably get around to doing a frame-advanced test with Kunoichi, but I expect her to be about as fast as Kumaitachi.
I know that Kunoichi's grab/throw is about as fast as Ninja's thruster, but you can chain her's to throw 3 or 4 people into each other, all taking damage while moving across the screen faster than walking speed. I don't know how clear that sounded.
Perfectly. But I believe her throw does 12 damage on collisions (as most collisions do) and probably 16 or 24 to the enemy himself. Ninja's thruster-kick does 18- I didn't add the kick in the video I posted, but I think it also gets him around quicker.
I'll finish up my notes and post the Kunoichi video tomorrow, if I can get snes9x to stay in sync. I don't know why it's being such a bastard all of a sudden.
This is a pretty big bump but I am wondering if anyone is still interested in this game? I was thinking of picking up from the WIP as it would at least give me something to start with for my first TAS.
I am wondering if anyone is still interested in this game? I was thinking of picking up from the WIP as it would at least give me something to start with for my first TAS.
For my part, I eventually decided this game wouldn't be as interesting to TAS as I thought it would when I started this thread, so I dropped it.
Still, the game is awesome, and probably a good choice for a first-time TASer. If you decide to take this on, I'd be glad to help out with memory addresses, scripts, and such.
If you could that would be great. I'm going to post a very unoptimized wip in a moment of stage 1 with the kunoichi which pretty much confirms your earlier thoughts that she is suboptimal compared to the ninja.
Edit:
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1009252573/Ninja%20Warriors%20Again%2C%20The%20(J)%20Sp00ky%20WIP1.smv
Here's the link please take a look if you have a moment. I could use some critique as I am sure I could have cut a chunk of frames if I really knew what to look for.
And I also just realized I chose normal instead of hard mode which was a pretty stupid mistake.
Well here's another minor wip this time on hard as it should be.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1730006563/Ninja%20Warriors%20Again%2C%20The%20%28J%29%20Sp00ky%20wip2.smv
This is with the kunoichi again not much different from the normal version.
It is about 450ish frames behind the ninja wip posted previously.
Highlights:
Unlike ninja kunoichi doesnt have a good way to move across the screen when there are no enemies nearby. She can offset this with her left or right throw which moves her very quickly scooping up any enemies along with her in a convenient pile. In other situations where she needs to get to enemies before they spread out she can use her blaster attack. If that is not available she can use her down + jump to poke an enemy from just out of range before it can jump away or use an attack which must be dodged.
Blaster attack flips her backwards so of course you want to turn the opposite direction for 2f first.
The first boss has some very long invulnerability periods (especially at the start of the fight) which is why I have to wait a bit before I can knock him down with the blaster attack and move closer.
Biggest place that could be improved is the 3 kunoichi fight. Hoping for some memory addresses so I can figure out what attacks do how much damage without guesswork. (Example: damage on thrown boxes/motorcycles versus blaster damage versus regular combo damage versus blaster combo damage) as this will tell me what to aim for during boss fights as well as the enemies with high hp.
Cool. That looks pretty good. The only suggestion I can make is to avoid knocking enemies down. For example, you threw a goon at the boss in the Easy mode WIP, which costs a fair bit of time, but only does 12 damage.
It may be best to use infinite combos against stronger enemies, but that would require some testing to see if it's actually workable.
Obviously, it would be easier to try that out if you had memory addresses, so here are the hitpoint values for the four enemies that can exist at once:
7e18a2
7e18a6
7e18aa
7e18ae
Edit: this script will display hitpoints, but in a more intuitive way than what the memory watch can do. It'll also tell you how far away from the player-character each of the enemies is. You may need to get the latest version of the snes9x 1.43 branch in order to use scripting.
Unlike ninja kunoichi doesnt have a good way to move across the screen when there are no enemies nearby.
Did you try her blocking backflip? IIRC, it's faster than her walking speed (but still slower than Ninja's sliding kick.)
I was trying to come up with an easy infinite for her but this is compounded by a couple of things.
Bosses and high hp enemies tend to block if you 'stagger' your attack strings. I found I can someone manipulate this based on how many frames I hold the 3rd and 4th swipe for, but it's usually either A) they block or B) they recover before I can restart a 4 swipe sequence and do something undesirable (kunoichi flip away, the boss uses one of his very fast attacks.)
With the boss I found manipulating him to block allows me to also manipulate him into letting me throw him but a still causes an unwanted knockdown and his wakeup time is especially long.
Thank you very much for the memory addresses. I am going to try one more Kunoichi WIP and if I cannot beat the ninja time then I will try him as you did. I think if I can improve the 3 kunoichi and the boss fight significantly enough that it should be possible. The other sections are actually faster than Ninja with the exception of one.
I haven't tried a few things yet. One is the block xx backflip, another is the jump and kick off an enemy attack. I also haven't tried the blaster combo yet, but the blaster usage for stage 1 was preplanned, I have to use each blaster within a certain amount of time to have a blaster available at the start of the boss, or I end up with one less blaster which I found was undesirable overall (Blaster is fast and it also allows her to immediately do heavy damage to enemies on the first frame they can be hit.)
Dromiceius: The LUA script you made is amazing. I had no idea emulator scripting was that powerful.
Thanks to your script I have all the necessary values for the kunoichis attacks. Here they are.
Swipes:
8 x 4
ender standing = 16
ender crouching = 16
blaster ender = 32
Blaster = 48
throws
up + throw = 32
down + throw = 4 x 5 + 32 (!!!) (obviously her best attack and will be abused heavily, had no idea it did this much damage)
left/right + throw = 16
jump attacks
neutral jump + slash = 16
forward jump + kick = 12
recoil kick = 8
Other:
down + jump = 8
thrown bike = 32
Incidental knockdown from throw = 12
Here is another wip with the new developments.
The kunoichi backflip does indeed help here or there. I even whiff a swipe so I can block and flip.
This is (amazingly) 966 frames faster than the ninja wip mostly thanks to finding out just how much damage down + throw does. I think I will stick to the kunoichi after all.
Highlight has to be manipulating a missile to kill 3 offscreen enemies for me just before the boss fight.
Edit:
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/479953211/Ninja%20Warriors%20Again%2C%20The%20%28J%29%20Sp00ky%20wip3.smv
Now 1862 Frames ahead at the end of stage 2.
New discoveries:
The 5 hp enemies are infinite. But you can manipulate the game into giving you the minimum amount per section by waiting until the screen can no longer scroll to kill them. This probably makes the kunoichi superior to the other characters as she can get from one end to the other of a section the fastest by merely dragging everything she meets along with her for the ride.
Enemy attacks can be manipulated by moving back and forth or by swinging your weapon a little slower/faster at the current enemy you are fighting.
