Topic by Noob_Irdoh

Posted: 8/30/2010 11:59 AM

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Noob_Irdoh

Joined: 6/4/2009
Posts: 570
Location: 33°07'41"S, 160°42'04"W

This is the new Hydrocity 1 if someone can't see the gmv: [video 320x224]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWOCpGO7CuI[/video]

Posted: 8/30/2010 3:12 PM

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marzojr

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Zeupar: in the GMV, I had ended input just as Sonic landed because I thought I could get a couple more frames in the boss. As it turns out, I managed to get 3 frames, ending with 0:30::57. And the death scene is also shortened by 1 frame by manipulating Sonic's pixel and subpixel position and having Tails stuck in air (meaning it is now as short as the newgame+ version). Noob Irdoh: thanks for the encode, but it is obsolete now :-)

Marzo Junior

Posted: 8/30/2010 7:56 PM
(Edited: 2/16/2011 2:15 AM)

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mmarks

Banned User, Player (143)

Joined: 8/30/2010
Posts: 500
Location: Argentina Bs. As.

very good time to Hydrocity 1 (30.26) and other times: 31.00 and 30.57. Also record this movie. This on youtube Link to video Enjoy

[18:51] <scrimpy> Oh, nothing [18:51] <mmarks> oh [18:51] <Nach> I think scrimpy is just jealous of you mmarks

Posted: 9/3/2010 2:16 AM

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Sonikkustar

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Joined: 9/7/2007
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Hey marzojr, I dont think you want to really do this now, but I think you should redo your Sonic 100% TAS with all the new tricks & glitches you have discovered.

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Posted: 9/5/2010 1:42 AM

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mike89

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Joined: 8/8/2005
Posts: 296
Location: NSW, Australia

Just stumbled upon this earlier today, would save a few seconds at the end of Angel Island 2. I hope it's as simple as that video makes it look, because I doubt you're really in any mood to be looking for something non-obvious that only saves time in a cutscene...

Posted: 9/5/2010 3:09 AM

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marzojr

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mike89: Interesting. Very interesting. I have no idea how you triggered that glitch, and the attempts I made or replicating it based on the movie failed. I hope HHS or Upthorn have any idea on what may be causing that glitch, because the S3K disassembly available online is still very incomplete and a PITA to work with for my limited understanding of m68k assembly...

Marzo Junior

Posted: 9/5/2010 6:01 PM

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HHS

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Joined: 10/8/2006
Posts: 356

Here is what needs to be done: - You must be playing with Sonic as your main character. - You must start the game from the beginning. - You must not die or enter a special stage during Angel Island Zone. If you're playing as Sonic and Tails, perform these steps: - When you are around X position $41B0, have Tails running behind you and brake with Tails for 5 frames before he falls. - When Robotnik is leaving the screen and you reach position $4680, brake for 2 frames with Tails and start running again. - When you reach position $4700, brake with Tails again for 5 frames. If you're playing as Sonic alone, do this instead: - When you reach position $41E8, brake for 5 frames. - When you reach position $4700, brake for 2 frames. If everything went right, the switch will now mistake itself for Knuckles, and hit itself as soon as it loads. It's also possible to make the bridge explode before the capsule is hit, but this is useless. To proceed to Hydrocity, the score tally must have ended before the switch loads. The main thing you want to accomplish with all this is to make sure that the switch is loaded in slot 6 ($FFB1BC). This is where Knuckles was loaded at the beginning of Act 1. If Tails is with you, slot 5 must also be free, because of an additional object that is created that keeps you from controlling Tails. Check list: - Before you begin, $FFFAA4 should contain the value $B1BC. - When the bomb plane is flying above you, $FFB1BC should contain the value $00050390. - When entering the boss area, $FFB1BC should contain the value $00000000. If playing as Sonic and Tails, $FFB172 should also contain the value $00000000. I'd be interested in knowing what happened earlier in the stage, because you've somehow managed it without doing anything special at position $4680 and $4700.

Posted: 9/5/2010 7:44 PM

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HHS

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Joined: 10/8/2006
Posts: 356

By the way, if there is a way to zip into Knuckles' room from the left in Carnival Night 2, you can also do the same glitch there, if you passed him earlier in the level.

Posted: 9/5/2010 8:08 PM

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marzojr

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HHS: Thanks, that was enough. For what is worth, it can be done by doing 5 1-frame brakes with Tails more towards the end, but requires very precise timing. ~~So far I am losing 1 frame in in-game time from the published run, which is why I won't post the GMV yet; I will see if I can regain it, but the glitched transition looks great.~~ Re: Carnival Night 2: That is interesting. It will probably be more useful to mike89 in his unassisted run (as the published runs all skip Knuckles' earlier appearance in that level), but interesting nonetheless. Edit: here. Also featuring a 2-frame improvement in Hydrocity 1.

Marzo Junior

Posted: 9/5/2010 11:14 PM

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Noob_Irdoh

Joined: 6/4/2009
Posts: 570
Location: 33°07'41"S, 160°42'04"W

This looks great indeed. Here, have a video, so everyone can behold it: [video 320x224]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVMWdcRYDfk[/video]

Posted: 9/7/2010 12:52 AM
(Edited: 2/16/2011 2:15 AM)

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mmarks

Banned User, Player (143)

Joined: 8/30/2010
Posts: 500
Location: Argentina Bs. As.

I found a bug in Angel Island 2. I'll show you here in the image, and the movie. I do not I have complete, but I hope to help you

Movie here GST

[18:51] <scrimpy> Oh, nothing [18:51] <mmarks> oh [18:51] <Nach> I think scrimpy is just jealous of you mmarks

Posted: 9/7/2010 1:14 AM

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marzojr

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mmarks: you have no idea how many times I tried (and failed) to do that! With this, there are now 4 improvements I know of for the newgame+ run, and it hasn't even been published yet...

Marzo Junior

Posted: 9/7/2010 1:42 AM

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mmarks

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Joined: 8/30/2010
Posts: 500
Location: Argentina Bs. As.

Surely you must have cost a lot, but I did very easily. And now you have four improvements for the execution newgame +

[18:51] <scrimpy> Oh, nothing [18:51] <mmarks> oh [18:51] <Nach> I think scrimpy is just jealous of you mmarks

Posted: 9/7/2010 11:37 AM

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mike89

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Joined: 8/8/2005
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Location: NSW, Australia

HHS wrote:

I'd be interested in knowing what happened earlier in the stage, because you've somehow managed it without doing anything special at position $4680 and $4700.

You know, I was considering keeping the raw files in case you asked something like this, but unfortunately they take up quite a bit of space and I had to clear it to make room for more speedrun attempts. Sorry :/

Posted: 9/7/2010 8:34 PM

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marzojr

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Just to whet your appetites: I figured a (more efficient) way of reproducing the Mushroom Hill 1 zip in the any% run (and hence, it is also an improvement to the newgame+ run). I am still struggling with getting Mushroom Hill 2 to not lose too much time -- the loops are broken in the wrong way, which is 5-6 seconds slower -- and I may end up having to sacrifice some of the savings in Mushroom Hill 1 so I can make the loops be broken the other way around. (The newgame+ version of Mushroom Hill 2 can stand even with the improved Mushroom Hill 1 -- Hyper Sonic more than makes up for the lost time at the start). I will not post WIPs of that just yet; there is a lot of ground to cover before that, as I think it may be possible to gain some time in IceCap and Launch Base 1. I am just teasing :-) Edit: Turns out I was right about IceCap; I am now at 1:00::17, a 68 frame improvement. I will post the WIP after trying out a few more things to see if I can knock a couple of frames, but I doubt if it will be possible. Edit 2: And it turns out that IceCap is staying at 1:00::17. The things I wanted to try weren't possible -- one of the required spindashing while in a wall and with antigravity glitch active, while the other is only possible after a super transformation. Anyway, here is the WIP until the end of IceCap. It also features a 2-frame improvement of the Angel Island 2 transition cutscene to Hydrocity 1. I don't think Marble Garden and Carnival Night are improvable; but Carnival Night 2 might be if it were possible to manipulate Tails to show up earlier at the Knuckles cutscene. Sadly, I don't meet Knuckles earlier, meaning that I can't glitch that cutscene...

Marzo Junior

Posted: 9/8/2010 8:42 PM

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marzojr

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Ever since I implemented the transition trick in Angel Island 2 I have been having the nagging feeling that Hydrocity 1 was suboptimal. And I was right. Were it not for the fact that Microstorage seems to be down at the moment, I would have posted a new WIP here, and told you to behold Hydrocity 1 0:30::26 with the glitched death -- that is right, not a single frame lost on the glitch setup! Since Microstorage is down, however, you are all just getting teased :-p Edit: ~~following Sonikkustar's idea,~~ (edit:) Now on Microstorage: behold Hydrocity 1 in 0:30::26!

Marzo Junior

Posted: 9/9/2010 3:45 AM

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marzojr

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New WIP up to IceCap, including the above improvement to Hydrocity 1. As it turns out, I did not have to resynch Marble Garden 2 boss! Woot! As a bonus, there is a 3-frame improvement to IceCap, which is now at 1:00::14. So close...

Marzo Junior

Posted: 9/9/2010 12:56 PM

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marzojr

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I found out a small improvement to Launch Base 2, over and above the zip -- it is... well, you should see it for yourselves. The included savestate is needed to be certain of the results, as I started from a save where Launch Base 1 had been finished the glitched way. In this video, I skip the mid boss, skip the Knuckles cutscene and glitch into the Knuckles boss area. Unlike Knuckles, I only have fight the first of the bosses as the trigger is based on selected character. The level is faster, ending at 0:26::26 (32 frames faster, may be possible to improve slightly more), and there is an awful lot of time saved by dodging Knuckles -- the level spans 01:17.38 from the beginning of Launch Base 2 to the start of Mushroom Hill 1, versus 01:53.20 I had published earlier -- which means savings in real time of 00:35.82. The down side: the transition cutscene at the end is takes 0:31::25 instead of 0:17::53, a loss of 13 seconds and 32 frames in in-game time. I am leaning more towards the gain in real time in this case, as I gain almost 3 times as much real time as I lose in in-game time. What are your opinions?

Marzo Junior

Posted: 9/9/2010 1:57 PM

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Sonikkustar

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Joined: 9/7/2007
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...What the?... About the transition. I really dont care that its longer. I kinda like how it slowly goes down showing that you did something wrong. ;)

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Posted: 9/9/2010 2:02 PM

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Toothache

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Joined: 4/30/2009
Posts: 791

I say go for it. You are gaining real-time in the long run.

Posted: 9/9/2010 3:21 PM

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moozooh

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I say go for consistency. If the rest of the run goes for in-game time, go for in-game time in this case also. Otherwise it can also be considered a speed/entertainment trade-off, but you'd have to make a case that it is more entertaining that way.

Warp wrote:

Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.

Posted: 9/9/2010 4:26 PM
(Edited: 9/9/2010 7:05 PM)

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marzojr

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Here is a WIP up to Launch Base 2 featuring the above change. Launch Base 1 has had 5 seconds and 8 frames worth of improvements, and now ends at 0:31::55. The fastest way to die would be to lose the rings and get killed by the remaining Twin Hammer, but he is too high up for that, unfortunately; this one is the second fastest, as I am not slowed down when the level fills with water. Launch Base 2 ends at 0:26::26, with the increased cutscene of 0:31::25; nothing I tried so far made a dent in the length of the cutscene, sadly. As for speed versus entertainment: it is quite easy to justify as that, actually: the Knuckles cutscene is far more boring than the glitched transition, and lasts 3 times as long as the added time in the cutscene. Edit: Managed to reduce the cutscene length by nearly 2 seconds, down to 0:29::35. Also shows some extra glitchness at the end. WIP here. Edit: Oops, link for last WIP was wrong; I fixed it now. Edit 2: NOW it is fixed... *sigh*

Marzo Junior

Posted: 9/9/2010 5:35 PM

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Noob_Irdoh

Joined: 6/4/2009
Posts: 570
Location: 33°07'41"S, 160°42'04"W

edit: thanks for fixing the link. I agree that you should include that glitched transition. One real time / ingame time tradeoff won't hurt, and yes it's more entertaining. I will make a video of your new Launch Base Zone soon. Watch this space. [video 320x224]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHaqSRQvAOI[/video]

Posted: 9/9/2010 6:35 PM

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Derakon

Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960

This game gets less and less recognizable as time goes by. Very impressive work there, and I think the sheer WTF factor makes it worthwhile.

Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.

Posted: 9/9/2010 7:05 PM

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marzojr

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Ugh. Watching the encode made me realize I hadn't uploaded the video yet, and just copied the link for the old. Sorry about that, Noob Irdoh... Here is the actual WIP which shortens the transition cutscene. I also fixed the other post.

Marzo Junior