Topic by arukAdo

Posted: 1/24/2009 12:51 PM
(Edited: 2/23/2009 10:38 PM)

Post subject: Resident Evil 3

Quote

arukAdo

Experienced player (954)

Joined: 12/3/2008
Posts: 936
Location: Castle Keep

Resident Evil 3 : Nemesis (USA) Description: September 28th. Daylight... The monsters have overtaken the city... Somehow... Im still Alive... Help Jill in her last escape from Raccoon City, a step before and after Leon & Claire storyline. S.T.A.R.S. are the target of Umbrella's newest bio-weapon... Nemesis! Hordes of zombies, infected dogs and hunters are also on your way, find the best survival methods and escape this nightmare.

Emulator: PCSX-RR 0.0.7
CD: SLUS00923
Aims for fastest time
Take damage to save time
Hard Mode
Rank A
Clear time : 1:07:08
SDA Clear Time : 1:20:42
ZENO Clear Time (JAP version) : 1:12:19
Doors : 220 (roughtly 22min for a 6 seconds door fmv average lenght)
Doors with fix : 80
Zombies killed : 8
Movie Length : 1:07:25
Last frame : 242731
Rerecord count : 5695

Links

PXM : RE3 TAS 0.2 -- 1:07:08 || RE3 TAS 0.1 -- 1:14:47
Youtube : RE3 TAS 0.2 -- 1:07:08 || RE3 TAS 0.1 -- 1:14:47
Xvid: RE3 TAS 0.2 -- 1:07:08 -- 260mo || RE3 TAS 0.1 -- 1:14:47 -- 190mo

-- Some infos -- This is my very first TAS attempt ever, be kind :p This TAS use the special Resident Evil Fix Hotkey, witch basicly slowdown the game The use of special fix can be optimized, i was just aiming at making it work, rather than optimizing when to use the fix, i think only a few frames between doors are realy needing it Without the special fix, the game loop between rooms, after the door fmv After much tough, i think the most entertaining run would to fight all nemesis apparances, and limit weapons to handguns only (magnum, beretta, eagle) About 0.1 movie : this was a test run, many mistake and also less ammo resulting much longer boss fights -- Optimization notes --

Jill run 5% faster while equiped of handguns (magnum, beretta, eagle, knife) than holding a bigger weapon (grenade launcher, shootguns ect...), i didnt tested with mine trower or rocket launcher, since you should not pick them up anyway
Unlike what you can read in several place (gfaq ect...) everything count toward end time, this include menu,door fmv,cutscenes (the small time difference in movie/clear time is probably game startup)
The shortcut (take damage) in vapors room save a lot of time, its worthy
I founded a bit too late the trick with menu questions (YES/NO), while you cant input X soon (for about 15 frames), you can move the cursor (4frames) and X will become usable that way (total 6 frames), this save around 10 frames in menus and a bit more ingame (item drop ect...), overall a few seconds can be saved that way
The jap version can skip completly fmv and text display is shorter; for exemple, droping an item only takes 2 screen of text while it take 3 on usa version, i think the jap version can save between 30sec to 2min
The Gamcube/Dreamcast/PC version can skip also door fmv, so if you find a better (human) timer its more likely played on one of those version (roughtly 20min might be saved that way)
I didnt determined where the fix is exactly needed and for how many frames, this might be a problem in term of competition, i did noticed some rooms are slow to load while using the fix it will speed it up, i guess the use of fix should be limited stricly where its needed

-- Frames Compare With V1 -- Here a rough draft of frames difference between v1 to v2 runs Between rooms if the fix was used there is a line with "!!!"

#ROOM	SAVE	V2	V1
ROOM1	17	3455	3472
ROOM2	18	6488	6523
ROOM3	32	7374	7441
ROOM4	44	8356	8467
ROOM5	0	8979	9090
ROOM6	2	9423	9536
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM7	49	12519	12681
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM8	56	13706	13924
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM9	29	14764	15011
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM10	42	15898	16187
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM11	152	17017	17458
ROOM12	198	17941	18580
ROOM13	43	18625	19307
ROOM14	40	19500	20222
ROOM15	6	20801	21529
ROOM16	22	21490	22240
ROOM17	158	22051	22959
ROOM18	144	23410	24462
ROOM19	10	23977	25039
ROOM20	83	24844	25989
ROOM21	20	25412	26577
ROOM22	41	26394	27600
ROOM23	8	26880	28094
ROOM24	46	27729	28989
ROOM25	20	28341	29621
ROOM26	8	28787	30075
ROOM27	24	29365	30677
ROOM28	8	30019	31339
ROOM29	6	30495	31821
ROOM30	28	31517	32871
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM31	31	32278	33663
ROOM32	14	32895	34294
ROOM33	28	33663	35090
ROOM34	28	34459	35914
ROOM35	18	34900	36373
ROOM36	30	35540	37043
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM37	36	36790	38329
ROOM38	20	37397	38956
ROOM39	178	38143	39880
ROOM40	86	40524	42347
ROOM41	22	41339	43184
ROOM42	29	41968	43842
ROOM43	16	42603	44493
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM44	21	43441	45352
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM45	50	46078	48039
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM46	62	47039	49062
ROOM47	30	48010	50063
ROOM48	91	49870	52014
ROOM49	33	50755	52932
ROOM50	26	51454	53657
ROOM51	32	52259	54494
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM52	63	53328	55626
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM53	36	54013	56347
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM54	68	55234	57636
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM55	36	56138	58576
ROOM56	35	56981	59454
ROOM57	63	57665	60201
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM58	34	58387	60957
ROOM59	50	60367	62987
ROOM60	197	61972	64789
ROOM61	121	62926	65864
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM62	-50-	65087	67969
ROOM63	12	65655	68549
ROOM64	26	66607	69527
ROOM65	121	68413	71454
ROOM66	150	69374	72565
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM67	25	70115	73331
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM68	104	71688	75008
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM69	28	72294	75642
ROOM70	181	73249	76778
ROOM71	6	73718	77253
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM72	50	74912	78497
ROOM73	53	76062	79700
ROOM74	6	76479	80123
ROOM75	155	79038	82837
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM76	210	80417	84426
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM77	42	81567	85618
ROOM78	103	82248	86402
ROOM79	23	82692	86869
ROOM80	393	83546	88116
ROOM81	18	84364	88952
ROOM82	82	85735	90405
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM83	60	86503	91233
ROOM84	44	87159	91933
ROOM85	44	88583	93401
ROOM86	-86#	89347	94079
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM87	82	89938	94752
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM88	88	91552	96454
ROOM89	-495-	94483	98890
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM90	-49?	95217	99575
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM91	22	95837	100217
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM92	30	96491	100901
ROOM93	38	97246	101694
ROOM94	45	97870	102363
ROOM95	47	98631	103171
ROOM96	58	99248	103846
ROOM97	100	100016	104714
ROOM98	-187-	101794	106305
ROOM99	10	102235	106756
ROOM100	130	102879	107530
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM101	47	103597	108299
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM102	13	104075	108786
ROOM103	109	105032	109852
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM104	27	105636	110483
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM105	38	106940	111825
ROOM106	164	107638	112687
ROOM107	251	109959	115259
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM108	44	111089	116433
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM109	95	113450	118889
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM110	115	113965	119424
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(second after nemesis fmv)
ROOM111	745	118959	125258
ROOM112	6	119432	125737
ROOM113	54	120493	126846
ROOM114	36	121100	127495
ROOM115	32	121571	127998
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM116	19	122119	128565
ROOM117	-100	123237	129583
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM118	50	124017	130413
ROOM119	38	124479	130913
ROOM120	634	125069	132099
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM121	-1	125867	132934
ROOM122	208	126784	134059
ROOM123	475	130143	137893
ROOM124	68	131450	139268
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM125	67	132250	140135
ROOM126	28	132767	140680
ROOM127	71	133359	141343
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM128	2	133992	141978
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM129	254	136887	145127
ROOM130	101	137534	145875
ROOM131	30	137967	146338
ROOM132	36	138401	146808
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM133	31	139205	147643
ROOM134	39	139702	148179
ROOM135	155	141197	149829
ROOM136	32	141749	150413
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM137	345	146286	155295
ROOM138	125	146832	155966
ROOM139	30	147305	156469
ROOM140	169	147927	157260
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM141	45	148358	157736
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM142	20	148991	158389
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM143	43	149719	159160
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM144	32	150722	160195
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM145	5	152133	161611
ROOM146	33	152590	162101
ROOM147	171	154437	164119
ROOM148	20	155008	164709
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM149	30	156126	165858
ROOM150	74	156835	166641
ROOM151	61	159228	169095
ROOM152	29	160026	169922
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM153	-186	160877	170587
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM154	104	161410	171224
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM155	176	164455	174445
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM156	99	165034	175123
ROOM157	361	166001	176451
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM158	298	166527	177275
ROOM159	41	166984	177773
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM160	23	167764	178576
ROOM161	334	168666	179812
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM162	-49	169574	180671
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM163	39	170217	181353
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM164	12	170666	181814
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM165	175	171323	182646
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM166	178	171798	183299
ROOM167	116	172338	183955
ROOM168	1293	173283	186193
ROOM169	220	174188	187318
ROOM170	117	174797	188044
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM171	22	175236	188505
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM172	-149	176030	189150
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM173	209	176610	189917
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM174	17	177273	190619
ROOM175	-109	178208	191445
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM176	17	179088	192342
ROOM177	27	179731	193012
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM178	83	180580	193944
ROOM179	106	181785	195255
ROOM180	-31	182602	196041
ROOM181	36	183267	196742
ROOM182	171	184890	198536
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM183	67	185973	199686
ROOM184	75	187018	200806
ROOM185	502	189699	203989
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM186	60	190423	204773
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM187	-8	190981	205323
ROOM188	4726	195198	214266
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM189	44	196260	215372
ROOM190	42	197066	216220
ROOM191	145	197703	217002
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM192	2	198529	217830
ROOM193	101	199678	219080
ROOM194	315	201451	221168
ROOM195	19	202434	222170
ROOM196	28	203144	222908
ROOM197	260	206583	226607
ROOM198	17	207079	227120
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM199	8	208212	228261
ROOM200	216	208837	229102
ROOM201	-11	209485	229739
ROOM202	108	210023	230385
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM203	6	210550	230918
ROOM204	-740	211730	231358
ROOM205	1344	213605	234577
ROOM206	14	214049	235035
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM207	12	214603	235601
ROOM208	-157	215760	236601
ROOM209	20	216731	237592
ROOM210	534	221965	243360
ROOM211	804	223452	245651
ROOM212	84	224068	246351
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM213	36	225080	247399
ROOM214	214	226983	249516
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM215	26	227449	250008
ROOM216	20	227920	250499
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM217	24	228600	251203
ROOM218	37	229359	251999
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROOM219	4814	241791	269245
ROOM220	72	242311	269837
ROOM221	60 	242731	270317
------------------------------
	27586
------------------------------

27586 frames saved (~7:39)

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Posted: 1/24/2009 9:38 PM

Quote

mz

Player (79)

Joined: 10/26/2007
Posts: 693

I just finished watching this. I didn't find it "quite boring" like you said, I actually did enjoy it for the most part. Also, I think a 6-minute difference of in-game time is a lot for only a test run; it seems you did a good job with it. Is this gain only because of more precise movements or are there any other deeper differences between your run and the SDA run?

arukAdo wrote:

Jill curves did blowed my mind, it can probably be optimize, but its nearly a math problem, from A to B whats the shortest curve... that not easy to figure

That's the main issue I had with this run. For me, it didn't feel very "tool-assisted" because of this. I think a movie with her movements more optimized would look really great and even more entertaining perhaps.

arukAdo wrote:

After much tough, i think the most entertaining run would to fight all nemesis apparances

That sounds interesting. All in all, I watched the 1h 20m movie without ever using the Fast Forward key, which for me it means this is a good game for a speedrun. :P If Bisqwit can't accept a PCSX movie of this game, I hope you at least consider making a more optimized version when pSX adds rerecording.

You're just fucking stupid, everyone hates you, sorry to tell you the truth. no one likes you, you're someone pretentious and TASes only to be on speed game, but don't have any hope, you won't get there.

Posted: 1/24/2009 10:25 PM

Quote

Blaise

Joined: 12/28/2004
Posts: 210

Hehe Jill curves. Anyways, I'll watch when the youtube is done uploading.

Posted: 1/25/2009 9:48 AM
(Edited: 1/25/2009 1:56 PM)

Quote

arukAdo

Experienced player (954)

Joined: 12/3/2008
Posts: 936
Location: Castle Keep

mz wrote:

I just finished watching this. I didn't find it "quite boring" like you said, I actually did enjoy it for the most part. .

Very kind, thanks, i realy believe its not going to be a general agreement, realy i mean, i do nothing beside crossing doors Oki the dodge is great, but theres not so many of them

mz wrote:

Also, I think a 6-minute difference of in-game time is a lot for only a test run; it seems you did a good job with it. Is this gain only because of more precise movements or are there any other deeper differences between your run and the SDA run?

Same except some weapons, thanks again, even tough yeah the only difference is that i have frame by frame and he dont, and the real gain is 8min at the very least (removing my obvious errors)

arukAdo wrote:

Jill curves did blowed my mind, it can probably be optimize, but its nearly a math problem, from A to B whats the shortest curve... that not easy to figure

mz wrote:

That's the main issue I had with this run. For me, it didn't feel very "tool-assisted" because of this. I think a movie with her movements more optimized would look really great and even more entertaining perhaps.

Yeah but you would need to test yourself how work jill movement, its realy mind blowing, i believe at least 50% of my run is optimized, for movement i mean, because in most case, your not even given a choice on what to use (direct orientation or reorientation while running) Anyway, some help on this will be more than welcome, the problem is far from my abilitys

arukAdo wrote:

After much tough, i think the most entertaining run would to fight all nemesis apparances

mz wrote:

That sounds interesting..

That something i plan to do even not accepted on submition, because, a run like that WILL look awesome (not boring at the very least), that im sure off it, ill pass on the "all item run" because that would end up boring backtracking for items, im not even sure im gonna pick up all items from nenemis (he give infinite ammo for all weapons at some point... kinda ruin the idea too)

mz wrote:

If Bisqwit can't accept a PCSX movie of this game, I hope you at least consider making a more optimized version when pSX adds rerecording.

I still wait for his word on that, last time on IRC he told me he need time to think about it I dont see your point of pSX ? you mean its like nearly going out? If bisqwit accept fast now, i think next week my optimized run would be done I will not go trough a re-run without garantuees (on the fix/hack) it will be accepted, because for 2 mins, i dont see the point to redo a test run, its useless, realy Blaise: its there now ;)

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Posted: 1/25/2009 1:05 PM

Quote

mz

Player (79)

Joined: 10/26/2007
Posts: 693

arukAdo wrote:

I dont see your point of pSX ? you mean its like nearly going out?

Well, it was "nearly going out" a month ago, but we're still waiting for it. And we're not sure if it will have every rerecording feature needed for this website...

You're just fucking stupid, everyone hates you, sorry to tell you the truth. no one likes you, you're someone pretentious and TASes only to be on speed game, but don't have any hope, you won't get there.

Posted: 1/25/2009 1:12 PM

Quote

arukAdo

Experienced player (954)

Joined: 12/3/2008
Posts: 936
Location: Castle Keep

That mean also another waiting for approval of the emu, i mean in the case it contain all features Im quite ready to go, just need to be sure PCSX hacks are not disqualified

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Posted: 1/25/2009 3:28 PM

Quote

Blaise

Joined: 12/28/2004
Posts: 210

Wow, I was planning to watch this in multiple sittings but somehow I was mesmerized into watching it in one sitting. Thanks so much for your work and for posting this, I enjoyed it a lot. I had never seen the game outside of screenshots before so Nemesis' movement surprised the heck out of me. I kinda expected him to move at a Jason Voorhees speed. Between all the PSX test runs lately, I've been inspired to work on my own someday. I'll do a Metal Gear Solid extreme mode tas (Hey we got Mario, Megaman, Samus, and Sonic, now its Snake's turn). I figure it'll be like this run but with 1/4th the hallways, 5x the boss battles, and 10x the cutscenes. Good luck on your next version of this run, you have my support. "You want S.T.A.R.S.? I'll show you stars"

Posted: 1/25/2009 9:28 PM

Quote

arukAdo

Experienced player (954)

Joined: 12/3/2008
Posts: 936
Location: Castle Keep

I think mgs use also a hack to work, hopefully they will all be acepted :D Edit: after checking, i founded a 5% speed gain by equiping nothing or the handgun, on a 300 frames corridor run, shooty and grenades take 15 more frames to go from A to B, i need to try the knife and magnum too :p

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Posted: 1/26/2009 12:42 AM

Quote

Blaise

Joined: 12/28/2004
Posts: 210

You mean lighter weapons make you run faster? I suppose thats not too surprising. On resident evil 4, unarmed and grenades make you move the 2nd fastest (shotgun glitch made you run the fastest)

Posted: 1/26/2009 1:13 AM

Quote

arukAdo

Experienced player (954)

Joined: 12/3/2008
Posts: 936
Location: Castle Keep

Yeah, i dont have other explanation why nade and shooty take 15 more frames to run that corridor This might shorten a bit the run The SDA run dont have shooty and for most part of it hold the handgun I think i will stick to no handgun, to save place in inventory, i need in total 30 freeze ammo, 6 given by carlos, that mean i need 4 powderC and 12 regular nade ammo, i need 18 acid for wurm, thats 3 powderB and 6 regular nade ammo, also i need something for last boss, i will stick to flame rounds, 6 given by carlos, i guess i will use the powderA left from the B i need already for acids and take more 6 regular rounds That a grand total pickup of 24 regular nade ammo, 7powderB and 5powderA In term of pick up the magnum would not realy spare me time, it need powderC like freeze rounds, i now highly doubt it would be a good choice to get the magnum, grenade seem more suited to bosses i need to fight, the magnum is slow too

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Posted: 1/26/2009 2:32 AM

Quote

Blaise

Joined: 12/28/2004
Posts: 210

Whats the precise damage for each weapon and how much hp do nemesis and the worm have? Or do we not have the tools yet to check that out.

Posted: 1/26/2009 2:41 AM

Quote

arukAdo

Experienced player (954)

Joined: 12/3/2008
Posts: 936
Location: Castle Keep

There is the tool, but i just went trough gameshark code with pec after all The magnum and any other choice than freeze round result in loosing time on nemesis, he get stuck with freeze and you can combo him much better than anything else, for the wurm theres no reason apparently that the magnum will do better, and beside i gain so much time on nemesis, i cant pick both Checking a bit more in faqs ect... i found out you get the magnum at start in easy mode... meh not that great weapon in this game after all... nade are much more efficients Not sure theyr HP value will help me in any form, what matter is the time i take to kill them

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Posted: 1/27/2009 12:31 PM

Quote

Sinister1JP

Joined: 1/27/2009
Posts: 33
Location: UK

homepage3.nifty.com/shin3/BIOHAZARD.htm If you scroll down to Biohazard 3 and see ZENO's time of 1hr12m19s you'll find a lot of improvements over Carniogen's run and others on SDA. Ths was also done on an older PSX I believe meaning this record is breakable on an emulator. I thought I'd note from the untrained eye I saw approx. 31secs of improvements over the current run. To perfect each frame and bullet used, there would no doubt be further optimizations. Possible optiizations: -Beginning zombie can be pushed out the way with quick dodge which is a tiny bit faster. -ZENO uses the first item box to store the manuals and pistol..i was looking at the slots used. Could it shave a few frames off to go to the save box in the T alley by the diner or even before that at the auto repair shop? -The 2 speedy zombies that pop out the shotgun cellar can be pushed with quick dodge. The 2 remaining zombies can still be dodged on the way down that tight stairway. 1 bite from the remaining zombie downstairs and blasting through til back at the top. -When returning to T shaped alley on way to the diner and Carlos runs off, don't fight the zombies they can be dodged. -Nemesis fights could possibly be improved - the 2nd from last involving the acid spills...is there a way to get Nemesis to have a higher success rate of running into/swiping the acid? -The puzzle involving the yellow red blue bars, in the final lab. Could that be done any quicker? It's a random puzzle I believe, another instance of the puzzle might be faster. -Overall there are a lot of jogging scenes even in this run which although look near perfect to the human eye could be tweaked a bit on a TAS. Or in the case of Carlos, a lot of fine tuning could be done :p -Such as the beginning there are a few unnecessary nibbles from our zombie chums. If they are able to be eradicated the few seconds lost picking up health items could also be saved. -The run utilizes saving. ZENO saves once as this doesn't affect the end ranking and allows for him to run the game as he does constantly (else get burned out lol). with this emulator can save states be used to avoid this altogether or with enough practice could this be avoided? It would save mroe time. -Are there any values in the RAM that could be altered for enemy placement/zombie speeds?? Luck manipulation if you will. Also any way to keep the code in the RPD as 0131 the same way? I think there was another code which was just that bit faster. Hey wait, maybe a TAS could still improve this a LOT :D EDIT: If aiming for no damage like in opening post, some time savers I mentioned and currently in the 1hr12 run could be lost.

-Sinister,

Posted: 1/27/2009 3:59 PM

Quote

arukAdo

Experienced player (954)

Joined: 12/3/2008
Posts: 936
Location: Castle Keep

Thanks for all of this, im happy somebody try to help :D Tough, i know all of this, i mean, doesnt help realy or i already knew it Theres many thing i can answer by saying, try to do it, youll see its more hard than it look, and its not only because of the game, just the special fix hotkey make everything harder (and waste time too...) Also notice theoricly jap version goes faster, the number of caracters displayed in a sentence is always smaller, thus, the menu are shorter for a few frames in theory Edit: watching video, correction, they are shorter, I confirm it, trowing away an object only take 2 lines in jap while it take 3 in us version, so i was correct on this Anyway, i started already yesterday to make the real tas (mind you to remember it was a test run) and in the 10 firsts rooms i saved over 250 frames Im using the handgun too, witch mean i will save time anyway, since its faster than holding shooty/nades I dont aim anymore for no damage, because i would loose too many time on the end "puzzle" (vapor room not water control) for access to nemesis 1st end boss Tough, i dont see where im suppose to take damage to save time? (getting hit by zombie is longer than actually pushing him) Luck: what i can do i think is to watch memory address and tell witch scenario gonna occur on next room (zombies# / positions, magnum or nade, ect...) tough, then what? i loose time not entering the room and wait for next scenario to happen, hum, ill let that for pro ;) Edit: having trouble here to watch the zeno run, only could see up to tram then stop to dl Also he cut the videos in a way it doesnt work on PCSX, i believe its made with epsxe or something else, and theres is some parameters that make videos shorten (at least can shorten them faster... might be jap version reason tough) Whatever i input on the intro fmv, i cant cut it that fast Edit: for those who wonder, everything count toward the clear time, including black screens and door fmv, my movie is realy ~1:14 long PC/DC edition get under 50min clear time, because you skip all those completly with start Theres over 31 seconds to save, like i explained on first post, i overlooked on ammos, the end result was suppose to be 1:12 (1:20 - 10%), but with all errors i made, you can think reasonably it will be under 1:12 actually About the first item box, no it doesnt work, because you need to pickup gem + lockpick in police station, witch mean i would end up using the manuals (witch take forever), so i prefer to spend few frames there and just get ride of them and reload tool together, overall its safe to think it save time (he made same deduction than me apparently) The zombies on the shootgun room are not dodgable, there are in the stairs, witch mean they vomit on you, not catching you I tryed to dodge them, it can work, it take MUCH more time than a tiny little shoot On my real run, theres only 1 guy in the stairs, it still goes faster to equip/unequip the shooty and shoot him rather than pushing him in stairs (actually what happen is you need to push him up to the top, more or less) His (jap?) itembox goes to a ridiculous speed, that fishy, i optimized mine, but doesnt look to go that fast It might goes faster to go first to box then to key, that an error i made probably, tough until someone else rerun its not sure at all, since i still go faster than humans Ah one last thing, in order to document the run the best i can, im noting all doors this time :D That mean i can take up one of those maps you can find around and color doors that need the fix With that kind of infos, i dont see how the fix can pose a problem upon submition

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Posted: 1/27/2009 10:50 PM

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Sinister1JP

Joined: 1/27/2009
Posts: 33
Location: UK

Hi man glad you replied, I made an account just for this TAS :p Okay you are right, you need to push the zombie back up and shotty him like in the current run by Zeno. So you know he ran this with a turbo controller, one of the final big psx machines and an original biohazard 3: last escape. To speed the 2nd from last Nemesis fight you will have to take damage from the acid. But the fight was a tiny bit clumsy it could perhaps be quick dodged with perfect timing and the AI of Nemesis could be led into the acid faster consequently. The first time you fight Nemesis as a boss after the clock tower, again there is room for improvement but barley. Only a couple of seconds via quick dodge. Thanks for clearing that up about the inventory. I looked again, you're right there wouldn't be enough space to do what is needed if you chang the inventory planning. Spend frames, save many frames :D How enemy layouts work is this: Depending on which scenarios you trigger, which enemies you kill and keep alive in certain spots certain enemies will appear. I don't know the game that well enough to tell you which actions triggers which enemies, you would need to check the RAM at the point of leaving a room with enemies you didn't kill or checking the ram after decision choices pop up. But I can tell you he went clumsy in the 2nd half and you could shave near a whole minute through better enemy dodging and running in rooms with enemies. As you've seen, the easiest things to improve upon this run are frames per screen. You've already saved approx. 250! I think a lot of frames where ZENO is running are lost when he plays as Carlos. Question - Zombie hallway with carlos on 4th floor....can this be improved with the pistol??? And if you leave some zombies alive in the hallway where do they reappear when you reenter the corridoor? The pistol can decapitate at times, maybe htere is a way to alter the ram values to trigger a very high percentage of decapitating headshots, Although you're not aiming for no damage now..did you reduce health items and if so how much time did that save?

-Sinister,

Posted: 1/27/2009 11:42 PM

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arukAdo

Experienced player (954)

Joined: 12/3/2008
Posts: 936
Location: Castle Keep

The only place i plan to take damage is the vapor room to activate second lock of the nemesis, to prevent using all switches, if you have suggestions go ahead :D Zombies are definitly faster to dodge than to get damage from them, so its down to nemesis, maybe ill take damage from him if that revelant, else i dont see where it could help Nemesis first form is realy slow in this run, in my tests, when i beat him, i have like over 3:05:00 on timer on screen, while hes under 3:00:00, i tryed realy a lot since my test run this particular boss (to test weapons power) Decapite him is the slowest way, realy, with grenade it take 11 shoots of the freeze ammo, witch is realy fast, the hardest is to keep him away from acid not to waste time! haha (his arm can accenditaly hit the valve while you pwn him) For carlos using the handgun is a bad way i think, it mean you access the menu too soon, but, do you watched my testrun? i dont have those zombies there, but, both way, dodging is better (my testrun carlos with 2 dodge repel 5 zombies!) Im not going trough the hassle of memory watch, because, i honnestly dont believe it would improve anything, eventually, to be sure having grenade launcher, for the rest, what you gain here you loose it on another place, well, that what i believe, so far theres no "avoidable" battle or zombies i think, those who realy need you to dodge or take care, are not random If theres one good thing i learned at least : you can use turbo! damnit never tough i could accelerate shooting like that... actually i nearly dont shoot in my run hehe :D Im at room#16 and now have 750 frames improvement (over my testrun) Only one room have a 0 frame improvement (straight room...) I still dont understand how he can skip movies like that, i highly suspect its because jap version can do it, but im not 100% sure, either way its not possible in pcsx or usa version, and thus i cant realy do anything about it, he gain time on things i cant control, its actually the same than having 2 lines of text to drop an item rather than 3 because japanesse is more "compact" on screen :p Edit: from now on updating first post with frame compare from v1 to v2 run, will update daily if possible

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Posted: 1/28/2009 2:42 PM

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Sinister1JP

Joined: 1/27/2009
Posts: 33
Location: UK

I dont know if you knew, but you can skip almost all the movies with select button. And as he uses a turbo controller and has practiced the timing of it, he skips the FMA's as soon as control is gained, and almost always at point 0 of the FMV! EDIT: I have an original Biohazard 3: Last Escape. This is what all my findings are based on. As I have no Japanese consoles now or "super" consoles I am happy to post this out to you for your research :p..unless you already have the Japanese version?? The Japanese version is the fastest version. Ths is due to text and other small things, and that's why the best times have been achieved on it. The USA version is next best for testing as they are almost parallel but for the best result JP version. EDIT 2: Yes I am watching your WIP v1 :D fantastic so far. Cant wait for your v2

-Sinister,

Posted: 1/28/2009 5:47 PM

Quote

arukAdo

Experienced player (954)

Joined: 12/3/2008
Posts: 936
Location: Castle Keep

Sinister1JP wrote:

I dont know if you knew, but you can skip almost all the movies with select button. And as he uses a turbo controller and has practiced the timing of it, he skips the FMA's as soon as control is gained, and almost always at point 0 of the FMV!

Ok so its because its JP version, this is not possible in US version, i have frame per frame turbo and it doesnt work :p

Sinister1JP wrote:

unless you already have the Japanese version??

I have the cd, but i didnt tryed it already, i need to do first usa version because there is more chance it been accepted upon submition than jap one (for the first submit at least... i think) When this one is accepted i will reconsider probly and might try to do the jap run, as well as working maybe on re2 and re1

Sinister1JP wrote:

Yes I am watching your WIP v1 :D fantastic so far. Cant wait for your v2

Oki thanks, V2 gonna be much better :p

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Posted: 1/28/2009 7:02 PM

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Apo123

Joined: 5/17/2008
Posts: 212
Location: Virginia

I just finished watching this. I have to say that I really enjoyed watching, I didn't think it was boring at all. All that dodging, I never would've thought about using it as much as you did.

adelikat wrote:

It started off fairly tame, but as more balls entered the picture it sure got a lot more entertaining.

Posted: 1/28/2009 7:17 PM

Quote

arukAdo

Experienced player (954)

Joined: 12/3/2008
Posts: 936
Location: Castle Keep

Thanks, now editing the first post, apparently i was wrong on what people will think about it :p And yeah, the dodging was hell of a fun, that definitly the good part (that actually the only reason i started with RE3 rather than RE2 lol) Edit: on second tough, its not boring yeah, but the mercenaries minigame is like 5-10min mission and full action with lot of monsters, so i believe it will be more entertaining

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Posted: 1/28/2009 8:00 PM

Quote

Sinister1JP

Joined: 1/27/2009
Posts: 33
Location: UK

I didn't mention any improvements for the TAS route at the time because I felt anything you hadn't picked up on could be borrowed from the run ZENO did. One thing though, you didn't blow up the hunter in the B3 Hospital hallway. It would have saved all the dodging near/in the lift and shaved off a second or so. I honestly think with your ideas mixed with my ideas and with Zeno's route you could get at least a couple of minutes faster time ;). P.S. no magnum needed. and making the bullets for it/picking them up will consume more time than it's worth. Shotty and grenade launcher much better to use! I don't remember you picking up any health, did you?

-Sinister,

Posted: 1/28/2009 8:31 PM

Quote

Apo123

Joined: 5/17/2008
Posts: 212
Location: Virginia

arukAdo wrote:

Edit: on second tough, its not boring yeah, but the mercenaries minigame is like 5-10min mission and full action with lot of monsters, so i believe it will be more entertaining

I forgot about the mercenaries minigame. I'd definitely be interested in seeing a Nicolai run (possibly knife only), or a Mikhail run (aiming for fastest time).

adelikat wrote:

It started off fairly tame, but as more balls entered the picture it sure got a lot more entertaining.

Posted: 1/28/2009 8:42 PM

Quote

arukAdo

Experienced player (954)

Joined: 12/3/2008
Posts: 936
Location: Castle Keep

Sinister1JP wrote:

I didn't mention any improvements for the TAS route at the time because I felt anything you hadn't picked up on could be borrowed from the run ZENO did.

Plz do if you feel it, im still early in second run, anything that i forget or overlook will improve the end time edit: my final pick up list is 5xpowderB + 4(or5...)powderA 3xC = 18freeze + 2xB = 12acid + 1(or2)A = 6/12flames +carlos = 6 freeze +6 flames nemesis1=11(max12)freeze wurm=12acid(zeno=11) nemesis2=11freeze nemesis3=12/18flames (12 should be good... i need to test it with cheats on my v1 to see if its enought)

Sinister1JP wrote:

One thing though, you didn't blow up the hunter in the B3 Hospital hallway. It would have saved all the dodging near/in the lift and shaved off a second or so.

Correct, that was planned, that why i mark up all rooms frames :p Tough, honnestly, carlos look badass when he dodge inside the elevator just with doors opening ;) that why i did that Sad i didnt even knew about turbo lol

Sinister1JP wrote:

P.S. no magnum needed....

That what i figured out while testing all guns on nemesis :p The simple handgun + super ammo tough... its goes slower than the grenades, but hell, its VERY powerfull too :p

Sinister1JP wrote:

I don't remember you picking up any health, did you?

Correct again, no health pickup One question: do you know why zeno get bad ending?what trigger badend?

Apo123 wrote:

I forgot about the mercenaries minigame. I'd definitely be interested in seeing a Nicolai run (possibly knife only), or a Mikhail run (aiming for fastest time).

Lost the links i had, i will try to find them back, but a clear all monsters (lota of kills...) run with nikolai take 1 hour and you spend all bullets + need knife mandatory lol Even just looking for beating time it will be already a lot of knife fight, because he only have 15 bullets at start anyway :D

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Posted: 1/28/2009 11:59 PM

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Sinister1JP

Joined: 1/27/2009
Posts: 33
Location: UK

The bad end is triggered by the 2nd from last time you pick from two options. It's where you choose to jump off the bridge or push Nemesis off. By jumping off yourself you trigger the good ending. The lift dodging did look more bad ass :) would like to see it incorporated into a final run for the sake of 1-2 seconds! The hunters are triggered by not killing the Hunter Gammas in the room with the puzzle if that helps. Your route to the crowbar in the diner is faster than the ZENO run in TAS methods. I noticed you ran to an angle the first time you meet a "licker" in the cutscenes in the T junction where there is a map. You don't need to do that,just run straight to save a few frames. I don't know if it's quicker but with the worm 2 fight but running to each end of the U area and giving it enough juice triggers the chance to kill the worm with electricity. If you need the ammo the best place to get it is to grind against the table where you pick up the metal bar before the Worm. There's 2 A and 2 B there. Your Nemesis raping was faster in the 2nd from last Nemesis fight. Weapons FTW on that one. Your final Nemesis fight you could get away with if you optimize your ammo on the rest of the game so don't worry about that too much, improving the rest of the run would consequently improve that fight.

-Sinister,

Posted: 1/29/2009 12:11 AM
(Edited: 1/29/2009 12:14 AM)

Quote

arukAdo

Experienced player (954)

Joined: 12/3/2008
Posts: 936
Location: Castle Keep

Sinister1JP wrote:

By jumping off yourself you trigger the good ending.

Is this a shorter route (push nemesis)? For me it sound its longer that way, you need to backtrack the basement, while you only backtrack the first floor by using jump off (seem quite shorter than bassement+elevator)

Sinister1JP wrote:

Your route to the crowbar in the diner is faster than the ZENO run in TAS methods. I noticed you ran to an angle the first time you meet a "licker" in the cutscenes in the T junction where there is a map. You don't need to do that,just run straight to save a few frames.

Im not sure to realy understand this

Sinister1JP wrote:

I don't know if it's quicker but with the worm 2 fight but running to each end of the U area and giving it enough juice triggers the chance to kill the worm with electricity.

Hum the problem is, 11 grenade are realy fast to shoot, i dont see how it could be faster than ZENO (well with frame by frame optimization i mean)

Sinister1JP wrote:

Your Nemesis raping was faster in the 2nd from last Nemesis fight. Weapons FTW on that one. Your final Nemesis fight you could get away with if you optimize your ammo on the rest of the game so don't worry about that too much, improving the rest of the run would consequently improve that fight.

All boss gonna look ridiculous i think :p I hope to be able to beat last fight with only 12 fire grenades, this will let me to pick up 1 less powderA, if 6 are enough that would be perfect but i think its not enough Nemesis should not be able to afraid anybody after been TAS'ed :D

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