Joined: 12/1/2012
Posts: 103
Location: New Donk City
Is (E) equivalent to (J) in terms of stats? I have the latter and I can check it later, if so; else, I'll need to get the (E) version. I forgot the versions were different since they're not as night-and-day as Superstar Saga.
Also, I'll post some sheets of enemy data (including levels) probably later this weekend; I plan on getting all my findings for this, MLSS, TTYD, etc. all in one place.
As far as I know they're identical in terms of stats.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Joined: 12/1/2012
Posts: 103
Location: New Donk City
Both the RNG and lucky chance formulas seem the same in (J) as in (U), from what I can tell. The RNG address for (J) is 0x02060de6, incidentally.
EDIT: Bowser's Inside Story (U) uses the same formulas; posted the address in its thread. Would be curious to find out if the same formula applies to the 3DS games too...
Do you have the address for enemy's level? I'll try putting all this info in a lua script =p
Here's a simple script with enemies' HP and current and 10 next RNG values: http://pastebin.com/cQRv8bY8
Joined: 12/1/2012
Posts: 103
Location: New Donk City
The starting addresses for all the in-battle data are different in (U), but the enemy's level is a single byte, 0x1E bytes after its current HP.
Also, I don't have any save files handy, so I wasn't actually able to test the effects of Lucky Badges (A) in the Japanese version; as such, I can't guarantee they still double and quadruple Lucky chance.
Updated code; same link. http://pastebin.com/cQRv8bY8
It's a bit ugly (both the output and the code), but I guess it works.
Current rng value in red, next in light blue, possible criticals in yellow. M, L, m and l can appear to show who would be able to crit someone, and if this value is the next, it'll show a "Lucky!" text near the enemies. (I didn't specify who can crit who, in case there's more than 1 bro and more than 1 enemy)
Not considering lucky badges. I don't even know where to check what's equipped =p
I've been trying to get a lucky hit on the first strike in the shrooblet tutorial battle (which I'm not sure is possible) but I've noticed some strange things.
When you start the battle, the rng changes to 1, no matter what the rng was before. It remains 1 during the battle-start animation, then a bit before the battle actually starts it changes again to a different value. The weird part is that this new value seems to be actually random. I made a savestate 1 frame before the rng changes to 1, and if I continually reload the state, the new rng value is different every time. I'm not pressing any inputs at all.
I'm not sure what's going on here. Either the ROM or the emulator has an issue, or there's something more to the RNG in the game we don't understand. Or maybe I'm an idiot :P
Hopefully I explained this well enough. If you want I can provide the .dst file.
when i was playing i activated the dry bone statue to the right then before the time ran out i read the sign to the north of the statue. The result was it allowed me to walk around while having the sign text still be there. I dont know if this was already found but it might have some potential speedrun use
Maybe RNG is related to the DS clock? Some games uses it to get the initial RNG value (Pokémon, Rune Factory 3). So if it detects a lucky hit, it recalculates from that time or something.
(BTW, how does clock works in TAS? Usually Desmume uses the system clock, but for a TAS that depends on it, I don't know how it works.)
About the tweet (if there are other U exclusive glitches), it's likely, but we don't know any that's useful in a run yet.
The starting RNG seems to be equal to the hours of the start time (mod 24). So there's only 24 possible starting RNG values. I guess I'll find the best one for the toad movement at the beginning.
The statue and sign must be in the same area, and that's the only area with both a statue and a sign, so it's the only location in the desert where it's possible. There are other places to get text storage though, through a different method: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=350806#350806
Doesn't the countdown continue when you leave the screen letting you get text storage elsewhere in the desert?
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Yes, but the end of the timer acts differently when you are in a different area - you can't move around after it hits zero. I think it's because the end of the timer is kind of like a cutscene that's associated with the original area, and cutscenes only play if they exist in the same area as you.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
1. That Hammer Bros. & Swiggler fight was amazingly fast. :)
2. Regarding the google docs, I have no idea what things like "use 1 if (2)" mean, but I assume the numbers take account to crits?
3. How exactly would the crits for copy flowers/pocket chomps be manipulated? How worth it would it be given every hit is a jump?
4. Good luck!
It's good to see that there's work on this game.
I haven't watched the whole video, but from what I've seen it looks like a good WIP. Just some concerns:
- 24:40 This blue button in particular seems suboptimal. Can't you jump and land on the middle of it?
- 43:15 If you jump up the ledges here with Mario only, Luigi will teleport up. There was a video about this bug but it's gone. Not sure if it's faster to do that. (Also I don't know what are the conditions for that bug to work.)
- Is English or Japanese faster for this game, and why?
Will you share your dsm? If I ever felt like glitch hunting this game again, I would like to use it to get to certain points in the game without having to play. Thanks.
2. Regarding the google docs, I have no idea what things like "use 1 if (2)" mean, but I assume the numbers take account to crits?
"if" means ice flower, "bf" is bro flower, etc. The numbers in parentheses indicate how many of the item is remaining. So that line means I start with 3 ice flowers, use 1 and end up with 2.
3. How exactly would the crits for copy flowers/pocket chomps be manipulated? How worth it would it be given every hit is a jump?
There's really no way to manipulate lucky hits on those multi-hit attacks, since RNG only advances when you land a hit (to determine if it's lucky). This is unlike bro/ice flowers - in that case RNG advances every frame so it's simple to get the right RNG. In addition, a lucky hit on a bro flower will affect the attack as a whole, whereas a lucky hit on a copy flower will only affect the one jump.
- 24:40 This blue button in particular seems suboptimal. Can't you jump and land on the middle of it?
Yes, that could be 5 or so frames faster. Fortunately it doesn't matter to much since I had to wait 30-something frames before the next battle for the correct RNG.
- 43:15 If you jump up the ledges here with Mario only, Luigi will teleport up. There was a video about this bug but it's gone. Not sure if it's faster to do that. (Also I don't know what are the conditions for that bug to work.)
Didn't know about that bug. It doesn't sound like it would be faster since Mario's jumps would still take the same amount of time, but idk.
- Is English or Japanese faster for this game, and why?
The USA version is slowest because of increased boss health. However, the EU and JP versions have the same enemy stats. In my previous WIP I used JP since I didn't even consider EU. Now I'm using EU for the English text. J actually has a quicker title screen, and might have fewer text boxes, but I've found no gameplay differences.
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2794
Location: Northern California
Migu wrote:
Now I'm using EU for the English text. J actually has a quicker title screen, and might have fewer text boxes, but I've found no gameplay differences.
Question before you continue further: Is it running at 60fps or 50fps? If 60 it's fine, but if 50 then I'd recommend redoing it all on J for the submission.
EDIT: Tompa informed me that it's 60fps for all handhelds. Carry on.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 | CohostwarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Great to see progress after your route differences teasers!
I had assumed you'd let the adults die during the lollipop boss to set up 'perril status for Petty, but you got a heal and had to set it up else where. Are levels already that un-needed that you can skip that bosses exp?
May have already posted this, but can't be said often enough how bonkers the damage out put can be from Tool Assisted fire/ice Flowers.
A very basic question standard gameplay feature that I didn't pick up on my casual playthrough years ago, but may have noticed in that video... when you have all 4 bros's and use a fire/ice flower, do Adults target ground enemies and Babies hit the aerial targets?
To answer that last question yes a/b targets ground foes, x/y targets aerial
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
I had assumed you'd let the adults die during the lollipop boss to set up 'perril status for Petty, but you got a heal and had to set it up else where. Are levels already that un-needed that you can skip that bosses exp?
If both adults die at once it ends the attack since there are no targets on the screen. If I dodged the lollipops Shrooboid Brat would continue with a second phase of the attack before I got a turn, so I died quickly to get a turn quicker. I knew the adults would be healed and that I would need to set up low health in a normal encounter.
As for the exp, the adults got 2 level-ups after Petey to compensate for the missed exp from Shrooboid Brat, and they would end up at the same level regardless of whether or not they got the exp. The missed exp ends up not saving or losing any time overall.
