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Posted: 8/15/2004 6:56 PM
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Mr._Kelly_R._Flewin
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 757
WalkerBoh wrote:
Thanks man ;) Ah well ;) Hope you got something out of it.
The thing is.. my run is about 7m20s slower then yours.. BUT... I don't use the nav box for navigating the game like you do... so I known I could make up some serious lost time and probably bridge the gap a lot closer. The insane curser moving saves a sick amount of time that I know I will never make up on because it's so hard ot keep a constant pounding with thumb of finger. Mr. Kelly R. Flewin
Mr. Kelly R. Flewin Just another random gamer ---- <OmnipotentEntity> How do you people get bored in the span of 10 seconds? Worst ADD ever.
Posted: 8/15/2004 6:58 PM
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Walker_Boh
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1276
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
I wish you good luck.
/Walker Boh
Posted: 8/15/2004 11:20 PM
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Walker_Boh
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1276
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
I just read your FAQ @ gamefaqs. Thanks a lot for the credits!! ;)
/Walker Boh
Posted: 8/21/2004 12:53 PM
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Nightcom
Former player
Joined: 3/24/2004
Posts: 248
Location: West 81st Street
Very nice run :) I had breakfast while watching it hehe.
Posted: 2/5/2009 8:49 AM
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Randil
Skilled player (1885)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2160
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
There is another Deja Vu thread here, (ironically, with the exact same name), so I'm not sure which one to post in. Anyway, I've been looking over the published run some, and managed to find some minor improvements. I improved the run by 40 frames (0,67 sec), which I don't think warrants for a submission, but if anyone's interested, you can check it out. The improvements are: (~f means "around frame", so ~f9500 means that the improvement took place around frame 9500 in the run) ~f9500: After exiting the building, go to outside the bar using top of picture instead of minimap - saves 4f ~f12000: SPEAK to the cab-driver by doing to top of screen first, saves 9f ~f23000: putting MEDICINE1 in capsule outside my office instead of inside doctor's room, saves 7f ~f25000: move more to the right on the minimap, in order to get to next minimap dot faster. Saves 5f ~f31000: SPEAK to the cab-driver by doing to top of screen first, saves 9f ~f36000: Move more to the right on minimap while moving towards police station, to reach police doors faster, saves 6 frames. Here's the run. Recorded with 0.98.28. The rerecord count isn't accurate due to a lot of movie editing. EDIT: Make that 44 frames faster. I now waste less time manipulating luck around frame 35100, saving another 4 frames. Movie. EDIT2: 45 frames now. I shaved off another frame from the luck manipulation. This movie is now exactly 10min 18sec, on the frame, which is pretty cool. Movie.
My own page on this site.
Posted: 2/9/2009 1:25 PM
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adelikat
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3598)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4738
Location: Tennessee
TASer of 2010 NES TASer of 2010 DS TASer of 2010 Arcade TAS of 2010 NES TASer of 2008 NES TAS of 2008 Funny TAS of 2008 TASer of 2007 NES TASer of 2007 Funny TAS of 2007
Well, once you are done finding small improvements, I say submit. I'd rather have the 40 frames faster version represented on the site. And we have certainly published smaller improvements (*cough* circus charlie). And it is not like it is going to clog up the submission queue, we only have 4-5 submissions right now.
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Posted: 2/9/2009 2:30 PM
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Randil
Skilled player (1885)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2160
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
adelikat wrote:
Well, once you are done finding small improvements, I say submit. I'd rather have the 40 frames faster version represented on the site. And we have certainly published smaller improvements (*cough* circus charlie). And it is not like it is going to clog up the submission queue, we only have 4-5 submissions right now.
Yeah, you're probably right. I've spent some more time searching for more improvements, but couldn't find any. I'll go ahead and submit this as it is!
My own page on this site.
Posted: 8/22/2009 11:21 AM
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Randil
Skilled player (1885)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2160
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
As you know, I can't take my hands of this game. It's just that it's so complex to TAS, each time you think you got it perfect you eventually find something you didn't consider in the previous attempts. This makes the game very challenging and fun to TAS. At the same time, the game is very edit friendly, so if you find a 1 frame improvement at the start of the TAS, you can be sure that you can edit this in without desynch. The improvements for Deja Vu keep getting smaller and smaller. Perhaps this shows that I'm getting a lack of new ideas, or that it's getting closer and closer to perfection. I'd like to think it's the latter. I have revised the published run once again. I've tried out some new ideas that I had - doing things in different order, picking up stuff in different order, new cursor movements, etc., but with little success. Non the less, I have improved the published run by 5 frames. Here are the improvements: *I pick up Key2 before Key3. The reason for this is because the inventory order is a little nicer when I unlock the car door and the bar door with these keys. Although this is a noticable change, it only saved 1 frame. *I use a slightly different cursor movement in the elevator after visiting the casino. This saved 3 frames. *I corrected a mistake in the doctor's office, saving 1 frame. Looking for mistakes in a run like this is very tedious. If you do it manually, you have to watch the run frame by frame, trying to spot if you stand still for 1 frame too much somewhere or clicked 1 frame too late on a text message. I solved this by writing a lua script that detects these kind of mistakes. It turned out that there were no text message mistakes in the published run, so no frames saved here. It was thanks to this script that I found the mistake in the doctor's office. Also, according to this script, there are no mistakes left in the run, so unless the lua script is wrong, this run should now only be improvable by new strategies and/or cursor movements. I will look some more into improving this before I submit it. Perhaps when the submission queue is a little more empty and I'm fed up with looking for improvements, I'll submit this. If someone wants to watch this, here it is.
My own page on this site.
Posted: 6/8/2011 3:08 PM
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Randil
Skilled player (1885)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2160
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Since the Shadowgate TAS is drawing close to an end (at least it seems so right now), I've started looking a bit at Deja Vu again. I have improved the published run by 25 frames, 20 frames faster than the movie in the previous post. I know 25 frames isn't a whole lot, but it shows that the published run can at least be improved. Those 25 frames come from many minor improvements. Input file: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1924068171/deja_vu_tas_2011_randil.fm2 I have looked at the possibility of a "Glasses trick" in this game, similiar to Shadowgate (i.e. the existence of an item that you can pick up over and over again), and wrote a lua script that tested all items in the game, but to no luck (I did this for Uninvited too, but no luck there either). If you have any ideas, throw them out here!
My own page on this site.
Posted: 6/13/2011 4:46 PM
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Sonikkustar
Skilled player (1307)
Joined: 9/7/2007
Posts: 1354
Location: U.S.
Sega TASer of 2021 Sega TAS of 2021 Sega TASer of 2011 Sega TAS of 2011
Doesnt seem like there are any other improvements to the run. I hope that the same magic from Shadowgate could be used here though! :)
Homepage SVN
Posted: 12/28/2011 8:28 AM
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Randil
Skilled player (1885)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2160
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Hello again, I have some news on the Deja Vu TAS: 1. I have found a new route through the first section (up to outside Joey's bar). This route includes taking the secret entrance instead of going up the stairs. At the point where I've selected key2 to use on the car, I'm 216 frames = 3.6 seconds ahead of the published run. However (and this is a big however), this route changes the item order, in particular the capsules appear sooner in the list. This will make the medicine items appear on a different page than the capsules, wasting a lot of time on page scrolling - one page scrolling costs about 57 frames, and there will be 4 page page scrollings when using the medicines, so 228 frames in total. I might be able to combine these page switching with other page switching I have to do anyway, thus saving some time. I need to ponder this some more, maybe I can use this new route, maybe not... I'll post it here if anyone's interested: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1395259720/deja_vu_new_route.fm2 The high rerecord count is courtesy of several bots I've constructed that tested stuff out. 2. I don't know if this is general knowledge, but you can actually burn up a lot of the evidence that was planted on you with the lighter you get in the coat - note1, file5 and map can all be burned with the lighter. This means that the only reason to visit the sewers is to throw the gun in there. If anyones has any ideas on an alternative way to get rid of the gun, the sewers section can be completely skipped. I had an idea to use the handkerchief on the gun to wipe off the fingerprints, but the game didn't understand that. I hope to ignite some discussion on this as I'm drawing blank right now. I intend to write more lua scripts that brute force tests different stuff, maybe that will come up with something. As for actually improving the published run rather than chasing potential big improvements, I have improved the published run by 25 frames by new menu movements, and I think I can squeeze out a few more frames. On a related note, I have a more game programming oriented question: The game treats the gun as "discarded" when the 2-byte of RAM address 04A4 is set to 1. Is there a way to "reverse-engineer" the game to find what actions will set this byte to 1? Is this hard to do? EDIT: I have awesome news: I found that it's faster to get to the casino through the sewers rather than taking the elevator the normal way. This doesn't change the item order in any way, so no worries there. This movie is 116 frames, 1.93 seconds, faster than the published run: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1590677746/deja_vu_randil_new.fm2
My own page on this site.
Posted: 12/28/2011 12:21 PM
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adelikat
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player (3598)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4738
Location: Tennessee
TASer of 2010 NES TASer of 2010 DS TASer of 2010 Arcade TAS of 2010 NES TASer of 2008 NES TAS of 2008 Funny TAS of 2008 TASer of 2007 NES TASer of 2007 Funny TAS of 2007
Very nice finds!
It's hard to look this good. My TAS projects
Posted: 12/28/2011 12:28 PM
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Randil
Skilled player (1885)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2160
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Thanks! I also found a faster way to pick up the medicines in the doctor's office, but I'll let that be a surprise until I submit this. I'm currently 135 frames ahead of the published run... I'll continue looking for improvements, but I think I'll submit this before the end of the week.
My own page on this site.
Posted: 12/28/2011 8:02 PM
Post subject: déjà vu wip-1: youtube
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antd
Joined: 3/18/2006
Posts: 971
Location: Great Britain
Link to video
Randil wrote:
EDIT: I have awesome news: I found that it's faster to get to the casino through the sewers rather than taking the elevator the normal way. This doesn't change the item order in any way, so no worries there. This movie is 116 frames, 1.93 seconds, faster than the published run: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1590677746/deja_vu_randil_new.fm2
Posted: 12/29/2011 3:07 AM
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Mr._Kelly_R._Flewin
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 757
WTF?! Seriously... just when I thought the game couldn't get faster. Nice finds! Mr. Kelly R. Flewin
Mr. Kelly R. Flewin Just another random gamer ---- <OmnipotentEntity> How do you people get bored in the span of 10 seconds? Worst ADD ever.
Posted: 12/29/2011 3:29 PM
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Warepire
He/Him
Editor
Joined: 3/2/2010
Posts: 2174
Location: A little to the left of nowhere (Sweden)
Considering that this game seems to use the same engine as Shadowgate, is there a chance some item might be as glitched up as the glasses in that game?
Posted: 12/29/2011 4:47 PM
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Randil
Skilled player (1885)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2160
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Warepire wrote:
Considering that this game seems to use the same engine as Shadowgate, is there a chance some item might be as glitched up as the glasses in that game?
I have tested this - I wrote a lua script that looped through all items in the game and tried to pick them up twice, and it didn't work for any item. So no glasses trick for this game, unfortunately... Of course this doesn't rule out the possibility that there is some other type of bug hiding somewhere. I tried the glasses trick for Uninvited too, and no luck there either.
My own page on this site.
Posted: 12/30/2011 2:35 AM
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HHS
Active player (282)
Joined: 10/8/2006
Posts: 356
I found some bugs, but their usefulness is doubtful. - There are some items that can be picked up even if your inventory is full. This can be used to move to another location: Coin: Men's room Newspaper: Diary room Bul1-1: Under the manhole under the fire escape Bul1-2: Woman Bul1-3: Elevator, by office Bul1-4: Elevator, by dentist's room Bul1-5: Elevator, penthouse Bul1-6: Cab, by apartment Bul2-1: Mugger - If you buy a Bul1 or Bul2, you can leave it back on the counter. Leave it enough times and the number of inventory pages will underflow. This can be used to write FF to any location between 4C0 and 5BF (or another value by taking one of the above items). With this method you can also place an item in the address page or the container page. The following variables reside in this area: 4C0-4C6 - Addresses 4C7-4CD - Items in container 4CE-513 - Inventory 514 - Current room 515 - Current display 516 - Current page 517 - Maximum page number 518 - Number of things on current page 519 - Number of things on last page 51A - Number of addresses 51B - Number of coins 51C - Number of bul1's 51D - Number of bul2's 51E - Number of opened things 51F-52C - List of opened things (2 bytes each) 52D-52E - Current opened thing 52F - Previous display (when displaying closeup) 530 - Transition type 531 - Current palette 532 - Page scrolling related 533 - Keep text open
Posted: 12/30/2011 7:08 AM
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Randil
Skilled player (1885)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2160
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
HHS wrote:
I found some bugs, but their usefulness is doubtful.
Great! I'm very happy that someone else has been playing around with this game lately. Thank you very much for sharing these.
HHS wrote:
- There are some items that can be picked up even if your inventory is full. This can be used to move to another location: Coin: Men's room Newspaper: Diary room Bul1-1: Under the manhole under the fire escape Bul1-2: Woman Bul1-3: Elevator, by office Bul1-4: Elevator, by dentist's room Bul1-5: Elevator, penthouse Bul1-6: Cab, by apartment Bul2-1: Mugger
Interesting. The first item is placed on 04CE and your current room is stored in 0514 - that's 70 addresses apart. There are enough items in the game to pull this off, though of course, picking up this many items will most likely neglect the benefit of gaining the power of teleportation.
HHS wrote:
- If you buy a Bul1 or Bul2, you can leave it back on the counter. Leave it enough times and the number of inventory pages will underflow. This can be used to write FF to any location between 4C0 and 5BF (or another value by taking one of the above items). With this method you can also place an item in the address page or the container page. The following variables reside in this area: 4C0-4C6 - Addresses 4C7-4CD - Items in container 4CE-513 - Inventory 514 - Current room 515 - Current display 516 - Current page 517 - Maximum page number 518 - Number of things on current page 519 - Number of things on last page 51A - Number of addresses 51B - Number of coins 51C - Number of bul1's 51D - Number of bul2's 51E - Number of opened things 51F-52C - List of opened things (2 bytes each) 52D-52E - Current opened thing 52F - Previous display (when displaying closeup) 530 - Transition type 531 - Current palette 532 - Page scrolling related 533 - Keep text open
I'll have to play around with this, but it does sound promising. EDIT: I've already found a potential use for this - by placing any other (non FF) value in the address list, the game will treat this address as Auburn (the mansion at the end of the game). What this means is basically that I can get the Sherman address by leaving just one bullet on the counter, as long as there was at least one item left in the previously opened container (which will then be moved to the address list). This would save me the trouble of getting medicine1 and key4... This should save quite a few seconds - I have an idea that should work... I'll leave it as a surprise for the submission. :) EDIT2: Yup, this new trick worked well indeed - I now have a movie that is 31.8 seconds faster than the published run. I still can't fully believe this. Thank you again, HHS. The run is now well under 10 minutes, clocking in at 9min 45sec. I think you'll like the new run. I'll look things through a few times before submitting, but hopefully I can submit this soon. EDIT3: I'll just post some interesting things I find with this bug: Teleporting to toilet from gun shop. Probably not useful but pretty fun. Getting the Kedzie address without visiting westend. This is done by examining the RAM address for the current displayed photo in the corridor with the boxing picture
My own page on this site.
Posted: 4/26/2013 12:11 PM
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HHS
Active player (282)
Joined: 10/8/2006
Posts: 356
Here is the script. http://www.mediafire.com/?5hysu54ra4d6j6i,qth3hwuy33ih2zk,z1e0r3626ikxckn I have included the object type and number for every object here because there are some that have the same name. Notes: - "itemover" checks if your inventory is full - "additem" and "removemed" are the only commands that add something to your inventory - It seems you can load the gun directly from the counter as long as you've bought at least one bullet.
Posted: 1/20/2016 3:02 AM
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Zekna
Player (28)
Joined: 8/10/2015
Posts: 22
I have a new glitch for this game that I've been sitting on for a while -- found it maybe 4 months ago! Kept meaning to work on it and share, but it just didn't happen. To the good stuff: I've found a way to access arbitrary memory using the inventory and the bullet glitch, Shadowgate style. Movie for the setup here:http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/479235046/deja%20vu%20page%20overflow%20setup%20desync%20fix.fm2 (I had some issues with this input desyncing, let me know if it gives anyone trouble.) Important memory values as you watch are 0x0516 and 0x0517, which are the current inventory page and maximum inventory page number respectively. The route is simply: go immediately to the gun shop, and leave bullets until you move all items entirely out of your inventory. Note that as the items move backwards through your inventory, the max page number decrements from 02 to 00. (02 is the first page for items, as 00 is the address page and 01 is the page for the last opened container). Once the bullet 1 leaves the address page, we leave one more bullet, and the max page number underflows to FF. Then we move and pick up the newspaper. Because the max page is now FF, the inventory scrolls to where page FF would be (way past the intended end of the inventory) and adds the newspaper. From here we can interact with arbitrary memory. Notes: - After we pick up the newspaper, the max page overflows back to 0. This means we can no longer turn pages to the right in the inventory since we're past the maximum page, but we can scroll left as much as we want to. - I tried this with another item and it didn't work, but instead only scrolled me to page 0C, about one page past intended end of inventory. The newspaper itself scrolls to 0C, pauses, then scrolls to FF. I don't know if the newspaper is unique in this regard or what's unique about page 0C. I haven't been able to do anything useful with this, but it does open up possibilities. I've recreated a lot of Shadowgate-style crashes by interacting with arbitrary memory, e.g. crashing with glitched sprites, unending event chains, intro text on a loop, etc. I hope to post a video of some of these later!
Posted: 1/20/2016 5:51 AM
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Randil
Skilled player (1885)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2160
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
That is awesome. I feel like this could probably be used for a similar "teleport to last room" trick as in Shadowgate. If you can't find any such trick, the thing that comes to my mind would be to simply set the necessary flags for beating the game through this trick (by picking up items that set specific bits a la Shadowgate style) instead of actually doing anything, and then maybe even teleport to the police station (if that is faster than actually going there, I'm not sure). Keep me updated and let me know if you need something from me! I still keep my old Excel sheet with notes and some RAM address info.
My own page on this site.
Posted: 1/20/2016 7:21 PM
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Zekna
Player (28)
Joined: 8/10/2015
Posts: 22
Randil wrote:
That is awesome. I feel like this could probably be used for a similar "teleport to last room" trick as in Shadowgate.
This is certainly the trick I'm hoping for! I've tested some values in rooms just around the gun shop without any luck so far, but it's something I'm not going to give up on.
Randil wrote:
If you can't find any such trick, the thing that comes to my mind would be to simply set the necessary flags for beating the game through this trick (by picking up items that set specific bits a la Shadowgate style) instead of actually doing anything, and then maybe even teleport to the police station (if that is faster than actually going there, I'm not sure).
This is something I'll experiment with, but unfortunately I'm not sure setting specific bits in memory is going to be possible with this glitch, at least not in its current form. If you pick up additional items past the newspaper, it gets added to the address page (because the max page is 0 again) and your inventory scrolls there. I also don't think it's possible to underflow the max page much further -- I remember crashes after leaving enough bullets, but I could be wrong here. This gives us a pretty limited range of memory to set, and I'm also not sure it will let you put any item past page 0C... still need to investigate that. So far it seems like this isn't as useful as Shadowgate's overflow because at the moment it only seems to give us the ability to execute RAM values as an action. It also seems like using arbitrary values is safer in this game -- a lot values result in "You can't __ it!" or similar, while those messages were fairly rare in Shadowgate. The one advantage it has is that we have access to a lot more of RAM than we did in Shadowgate.
Randil wrote:
Keep me updated and let me know if you need something from me! I still keep my old Excel sheet with notes and some RAM address info.
Seems like I'm always needing help from you orz Any RAM address info would be invaluable, and honestly even general game knowledge like a map or checklist would be useful, if you have it. If not that's definitely something I can find myself!
Posted: 2/17/2016 7:55 PM
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Randil
Skilled player (1885)
Joined: 4/20/2005
Posts: 2160
Location: Norrköping, Sweden
Any news on this?
My own page on this site.
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