(Link to video)
Submission Text Full Submission Page
This is my improvement to my viral yet controversial run in which I attempted to get the Minimum Presses in Super Mario Bros. This is the 8th attempt at this feat, this time completing the game in 05:48.04 and 142 presses, a 3 press improvement.

Game Objectives

  • Emulator used: FCEUX 2.1.5
  • Attempts to complete the game with the least amount of button presses possible
  • Avoids wasting time
  • Aims to maximize score / kills without jeopardizing the above goals
  • Takes damage to save presses
  • Heavy luck manipulation

The Run

See this section of my previous submission for details on the majority of the run that went unchanged.

Changes

1-1: 13 presses (-1).

andrewg reminded me that I could have Mario stop in his tracks by holding down. As such, it became apparent that you can wait for the Goombas to move out of the way if you continue to hold down after going down the pipe. This saves one press.

8-2: 16 presses (-1).

Perfect enemy manipulation allows me to use one jump instead of two during the section before the final stairs. This requires two Bullet Bills. Room for error? There is none: after moving past the pipe, the jump must start and end at an exact frame or the trick will not work. I attempt to move past the pipe at the earliest time that allows me to both land on the second Bill and propel myself off of the final Koopa. This the one press I previously needed to jump past the second to last set of stairs.

8-3: 13 presses (0).

Because the enemies move based on a global timer, I had to do a lot of work in TASEdit to fix this stage. During this process, I realized that it's possible to make the second grounded Hammer Bros. deactivate if I pass it at the wrong time. This makes it impossible to manipulate the final grounded Hammer Bro, so this was avoided.

8-4: 26 presses (-1).

andrewg pointed out that I could hold A after exiting the pipe in the water section and avoid pressing A again to swim. In order to pull this off, I had to hold down earlier on to slow down enough to land in the pipe with a full jump. This saves one press.

Lua Script

See this section of my previous submission for details on the Lua script used to display the input in the encode.

Special Thanks

Thanks to andrewg for his improvements in 1-1 and 8-4. Again, thanks to FractalFusion for creating this amazing Lua script. I also would like to thank him, along with MUGG, for creating some of the previous MP TASes of this game. Finally, thanks to LexSfX for helping out with encoding.

adelikat: Claimed for judging

DarkKobold: Agreed with adelikat, Taking over judging.

DarkKobold: Sadly, there was cheating involved with this submission. Thus, 3 yes votes should be removed from the voting.

DarkKobold: In general, these runs would be rejected on feedback alone. However, I believe that a decision is required on the minimum presses category in general. To not belabor this any longer, these types of runs just don't fit with the publications on the site. A TAS should be able to stand on its own merits. This category requires a script to evaluate the number of presses, a DDR-style output to show the buttons, and etc.
That said, there are plenty of forums out there that have their own side competitions outside the publication of the site. BrandonE has set up a page to track these minimum press runs. I am all for that. However, I don't believe that this category merits a publication on the standard site.
Also, while a technical challenge, I don't believe it produces interesting movies. It has been compared to "No B" run of SMB. However, it is easy for the audience to identify with the concept of not hitting B. It is fundamental to the gameplay. No one playing SMB counts the number of times they press a button while playing the game, or the number of jumps they make, and etc. These super technical categories don't really fit with the aims of the site.

1 2
5 6
TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 14878
Location: 127.0.0.1
Joined: 10/7/2008
Posts: 12
I think it would help to have a comparison of button presses between this and the normal run. It seems like the entertainment comes from the technical details of the run. I was sort of entertained, so Meh vote.
Noxxa
They/Them
Moderator, Expert player (4138)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4083
Location: The Netherlands
I still dislike this TAS and category, because the only thing that makes it interesting is the LUA DDR input display. When you look at the TAS by itself, or with the little input display provided by emulator of choice, then there really is very little of interest to be seen. It's just much like the regular Mario TAS, except with less style in jumping and such, and the occassional bump into walls, slowdown or halt which all greatly detract from the entertainment that comes from Mario TASes. Without a LUA display, this run is simply quite boring to watch, especially compared to the other TASes/categories of this game. Voting No, again.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Brandon
He/Him
Editor, Player (190)
Joined: 11/21/2010
Posts: 913
Location: Tennessee
Dream wrote:
I think it would help to have a comparison of button presses between this and the normal run. It seems like the entertainment comes from the technical details of the run. I was sort of entertained, so Meh vote.
The normal run has 931 presses. They have very different strategies, so it'd be hard to compare.
All the best, Brandon Evans
Joined: 6/12/2008
Posts: 84
Oh, this counts all presses not just A (that of jumping). So you were saying if you slowed down you would still need to press --> to enter the pipe. Ok that makes more sense. I guess that's one reason I didn't like this run that much; I was only focusing on the jumps. I kind of see Happylee's point now...although a minimum A presses still sounds more appealing than this :P (even if I would still consider it an arbitrary category deemed unpublishable, I think it would attract a lot more viewers). Oh well, I guess I won't vote at all for this one
Soig
He/Him
Skilled player (1477)
Joined: 12/4/2010
Posts: 252
a new type of smb tas. Nice. But there is few entertainments. And not fast. So voted meh.
RachelB
She/Her
Player (127)
Joined: 12/3/2011
Posts: 1579
Voted no because no matter how much you improve this it's still going to look like a really shitty normal run that runs into walls and stands around for seemingly no reason. Again, it's an interesting idea, but this is a terrible game choice for it.
Editor, Experienced player (608)
Joined: 11/8/2010
Posts: 4012
Nice improvement! 8-2 was a cool and creative solution. I still approve of the "Minimum Presses" category and this run entertained me a little more than the last one, so I'm voting Yes again.
Player (12)
Joined: 6/17/2006
Posts: 501
Interesting idea, but it's much more fun to attempt to figure out how to achieve the minimum than seeing it. Meh vote. That said, it would be interesting to have a separate website that would hold such records, just like the challenges in Portal.
Joined: 4/6/2012
Posts: 44
Location: Lawn, PA
I'm a stepartist, and I think that this is one of the most boring stepcharts I've ever seen. A minimum-presses run does not make for a very captivating input view; watching a stepchart only keeps attention when there's a reasonable amount going on. I'm inclined to believe the only reason this particular lua script was chosen for input display is because the run itself, while it does follow a clear goal, is mostly boring. The fact that there is, of course, nothing of note going on in the stepchart when Mario's standing against a wall doesn't help matters any. I respect the concept behind the run, and it is clearly well-done for what it is, but that is not enough to believe it warrants adding yet another new category to the several already present on the site for Super Mario Bros, especially since for the most part it is not very entertaining to watch. I'm sorry, I really am, but if I were able to vote, I'd have to vote No. On another note, somebody needs to add this script to a run that presses buttons a lot. I'd be very interested in seeing that!
1/60 of a second is important; every frame matters.
Brandon
He/Him
Editor, Player (190)
Joined: 11/21/2010
Posts: 913
Location: Tennessee
Ace Of Hearts wrote:
I'm inclined to believe the only reason this particular lua script was chosen for input display is because the run itself, while it does follow a clear goal, is mostly boring.
Although I think the script does increase the appeal of this run, the reason I included it was because it's the best way to illustrate input that I've ever seen. I didn't come up with the idea; FractalFusion did upon hearing that I was planning to submit this kind of run (The run this was created for had existed for months).
Ace Of Hearts wrote:
On another note, somebody needs to add this script to a run that presses buttons a lot. I'd be very interested in seeing that!
Did you have any runs in mind?
All the best, Brandon Evans
Player (26)
Joined: 8/29/2011
Posts: 1206
Location: Amsterdam
The goal is too arbitrary and while technically distinct, it is not visually distinct enough. Voting no.
Experienced player (758)
Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 146
The DDR-style input display was extremely distracting, so I watched the movie without it. Immense enjoyment was had. I support deciding the acceptability of this category on a per-game basis.
Warepire
He/Him
Editor
Joined: 3/2/2010
Posts: 2174
Location: A little to the left of nowhere (Sweden)
I am voting yes for the exact same reasons as on the previous run.
Expert player (2453)
Joined: 12/23/2007
Posts: 822
Still voting no, with no disrespect. I know how hard you've tried to do this, but I just don't like to watch one of my favorite action games Super Mario Bros being done that way. Maybe other games would work better for this idea, such like puzzle games, or other action games. Edit: Actually it still seems much improvable to me, not only key presses but also the speed. I would probably make a test run of it while I'm free. I'd like to discuss with you about it with PM or something later on, and if you need any help, I'd like to test it out for you while I'm free. But still, it would be sad for me to see it published on this site, even if it's well improved.
Recent projects: SMB warpless TAS (2018), SMB warpless walkathon (2019), SMB something never done before (2019), Extra Mario Bros. (best ending) (2020).
Emulator Coder
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
That bullet bill bounce was one of the craziest things I've ever seen. Even better than the multiple hit against Birdo and her eggs in the quad SMB run. Big yes vote.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Spikestuff
They/Them
Editor, Publisher, Expert player (2292)
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6337
Location: The land down under.
I'm voting Meh just because yes you did actually do less presses BUT you to 2 seconds longer than your other so this confused me abit
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. Something better for yourself and also others.
Editor, Expert player (2313)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3855
Location: Germany
Spikestuff wrote:
I'm voting Meh just because yes you did actually do less presses BUT you to 2 seconds longer than your other so this confused me abit
Primary goal is least number of presses. Secondary goal is lowest time.
Player (58)
Joined: 7/7/2008
Posts: 872
Location: Utah
There's a TAS for everything now isn't there?
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 29
I vote yes. Awesome concept. Also, you probably shouldn't judge based on whether you think other people will notice what makes it special. Though I do think some heavily glitchable games like Mega Man and Duck Tales might be better, for people who complain about those runs being unwatchable. edit:minor weird change
xPi
Joined: 8/1/2008
Posts: 58
Brandon wrote:
Ace Of Hearts wrote:
On another note, somebody needs to add this script to a run that presses buttons a lot. I'd be very interested in seeing that!
Did you have any runs in mind?
Super Metroid
Noxxa
They/Them
Moderator, Expert player (4138)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4083
Location: The Netherlands
Brandon wrote:
Ace Of Hearts wrote:
On another note, somebody needs to add this script to a run that presses buttons a lot. I'd be very interested in seeing that!
Did you have any runs in mind?
I would like to see it applied to the current Mega Man 1 TAS. It might have some interesting results.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Joined: 10/20/2006
Posts: 1248
Would have voted meh again, but due to this it's a definite no to me for now:
HappyLee wrote:
Edit: Actually it still seems much improvable to me, not only key presses but also the speed. I would probably make a test run of it while I'm free. I'd like to discuss with you about it with PM or something later on, and if you need any help, I'd like to test it out for you while I'm free.
It shows to me that too little effort was spent on improving the last submission, even if 8-2 was impressive now to me. Once again, I'd gladly vote yes on a (significantly) improved version, because I like the idea.
Jungon
He/Him
Player (40)
Joined: 4/2/2009
Posts: 376
Location: Porto Alegre - Brazil
Voting Yes, because I support the idea of Minimum Presses, ... same reason ... but, now that it's mentioned, the video really makes more sense with the DDR steps, .. not that anyone is trying to dance it .. XD But seeing it without the steps, and knowing that the category is minimum presses, is not bad, at least to me .. =P
*Jungon*/*Johnnyz* smilie weirdo =P ^^ o.o @__@ +D
Active player (372)
Joined: 9/25/2011
Posts: 652
Definite yes vote. I think the 8-2 improvement really shows off the potential for the 'minimum presses' category.
1 2
5 6