Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player
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Joined: 11/3/2004
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Location: Tennessee
However, the game's timer is screwy too. And bisqwit was saying that an ideal TAS should optimize realtime as well as the timer. I on the other hand think real time only is a good reasonable solution.
However, the game's timer is screwy too. And bisqwit was saying that an ideal TAS should optimize realtime as well as the timer.
I'd like to seriously thank you for verifying that for me. Patashu needs to look at Bisqwit's post before he/she posts his/herself.
Patashu wrote:
The timings as in the distance between two in game events of the same type, not the game's timer.
...What are you talking about there?
adelikat wrote:
I on the other hand think real time only is a good reasonable solution.
See, that's what I think too. Hmm...I might do that!
Games to TAS:
1. Rampart (NES)
2. Pokemon Yellow (GB)
3. Aladdin (SNES)
4. Shadowrun (SNES)
-----
<sonicsonic3> and please tell me...WHAT IS THE BACK LONG JUMP CODE!? [on SM64's BLJ]
Basically this:
At time X, action A might take 5 frames.
But at a different time Y, action A might take 6 frames, for no 'apparent' reason.
Apparent as in related to the way the game works in an obvious way.
The reason why, which has been stated before, is because the game uses a co-routine system to implement a kind of 'multithreading', where how quickly things are done has a chaotic element that isn't directly related to any one factor.
Hmmm, seems like Tecmo was experimenting with multithreading. Too bad they used this game.
Games to TAS:
1. Rampart (NES)
2. Pokemon Yellow (GB)
3. Aladdin (SNES)
4. Shadowrun (SNES)
-----
<sonicsonic3> and please tell me...WHAT IS THE BACK LONG JUMP CODE!? [on SM64's BLJ]
I'm very interested in TAS for the game and I am looking forward to watching new one.
By the way, I am thinking my strategy for the game ;D
But I don't know if I complete my strategy .
I have finished my test run. Time is 25m36s27ms (about a minute faster than current run).
I'm surprised at this result without optimazation of time-things.
I'm still thinking when I get fire ball, when I use fire balls.
Congratulations. Please do verify that you do go for the same category (the best ending, nowarps) and that you do not fall behind in level timers, at least not greatly. :)
And that you used the same version, of course. The Japanese version has a considerably different timing than the USA version.
I tried uploading here http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php
But I can't upload my movie.Maybe movie file is too big to upload here?
Yes, I used USA version. And I lost many frames on room24. Because I tryied new way to find improvement, but I failed. This is just my test run to decide timing of fire. So I succeed even if I lost many frames on Room24. Please tell me another uploader.
I did a very brief watch-through of your movie, and then it became a less brief watch-through. Comments are here!
Room 2, 3: Timer reading is not as good as mine. No idea about frames.
Room 5: This was faster than my room 5.
Room 8: Interesting solution. It looks much slower than mine. But then again, I used a fireball here. Your timer 9090, my 9210.
Room 10: Those collision avoids looked very accurate.
Room 11: Here's where my bot was stuck. You cleared it of course. You used fireballs. Clearly different, yes. I did delay a lot here, I'm not sure about comparison. Your timer 8900, my timer 8730. Your tradeoff with room 8 was a win.
Room 12: You waited for a dragon. It was more noticeable than in my movie. Not a time factor, but an entertainment factor.
Room 13: Your strategy was considerably different than mine. We both collected a fireball here. I think your strategy was much faster.
Room 14: Very interesting strategy, but you used a fireball. In the end, timing difference will be interesting. Your timer 8660, my timer 8650.
Room 16: Interesting micro-optimizations, as well as partially mirroring my strategy. Your timer 9320, my timer 9300. Probably faster than mine.
Room 17: You had a large fireball here. I had two small ones... Your timer at hourglass 9040, mine 8980. At end 4360, mine 4340. Good.
Room 20: Your timer 8180, my timer 8130. Very good.
I've seen enough, just skimming through the rest of them. You also collected the Solomon's Seals, which hints towards that you aim for the best ending as well.
Room 30: WOW! That was awesome! I'm glad that at least some of this room's pain could be mitigated. This was a huge improvement.
Room 32: No suicide. Good, compares better.
Room 34: You took the hourglass?! Wow. Impressive. I wonder why I did not? :(
Room 36: I used a fireball here, and so did you, though I had to view it twice to see it. I used a large one, yours was a small one and you still have a large one remaining. Same timer reading at end.
Room 37 (the unaided ascent to space): Looks faster than mine.
Room 39 (ascent of spiral): Your timer 8880, my timer 8870. Yours is probably slightly faster, though it does not look as impressive accompishment as mine :-(
Room 43: Your large fireball saved you a lot of time here.
Room 44: I skimmed through this room, but I think we had radically different routes here.
Room 46: Cool solution.
Room 48: I think I noticed some micro-optimizations despite fastforward.
Princess: Wait. What? This was one of those "Wait. Kirby can run?" moments.
Solomon: Some benefit here as well.
Looking forward to the publication!
Thanks, Bisqwit!
In the room34 I refered to your movie file ;) That's your finding.
Well, I forgot reading ktwo's opinion for room45. So I can improve there.
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player
(3598)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4738
Location: Tennessee
Bisqwit's approval of this is enough for me. I think you should submit it. I am surprised that there is over a minutes worth of improvements, nice job.
All I can say is wow, nice improvements! I can already say that it will get yes vote. And amount of improvement is awesome!
P.S. Neat and great improvement in Room 30!
Thanks. I've improved from room1 to room5.
Room1 I saved 4frames and I got 9370.
Room2 I saved 2frames and I got 9220.
Room3 I saved 11frames and I got 8070. I got 8080 as well, but this made me a frame or 2frames later.
Room4 I saved a frame and I got 9330.
Room5 I saved 21frames and I got 9300.
Thanks. I've improved from room1 to room5.
Room1 I saved 4frames and I got 9370.
Room2 I saved 2frames and I got 9220.
Room3 I saved 11frames and I got 8070. I got 8080 as well, but this made me a frame or 2frames later.
Room4 I saved a frame and I got 9330.
Room5 I saved 21frames and I got 9300.
Sounds good. Without these changes it might have been that someone obsoletes your movie in succession with minor frame-improvements after seeing your strategy. Keep up the good work. がんばってよ。
Nice to see activity for this game. I assume that the next version will contain even more optimizations, but I thought I'd point out a few question marks I had after watching it once. I hope I'm not repeating too much of what you already knew.
- Same remark as Bisqwit for room 8. I'm surprised if this is really the fastest solution...
- Did the block created under the first red flame that was dropped in room 44 really save any time ?
- What you already said about room 45. If pictures say more than words, there is both the nicovideo run and the sda run to demonstrate the idea.
Finally, as a console speedrunner, I was happy after having watched the solution for the prinsess room. Should be doable in real-time and would save a couple of seconds.
I'm looking forward to the final product.
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player
(3598)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4738
Location: Tennessee
agwawaf wrote:
Thanks :D
But....Whoa...........I have improved Room1. I saved a frame again.
It is difficult to submit this at May 1st.
Watch out. If you get too into hyper optimizing this game, you will never finish. On that level things are insane, more so than most NES games. It will drive you insane.
