Post subject: The Great Waldo Search
Aran_Jaeger
He/Him
Banned User, Player (9)
Joined: 10/29/2014
Posts: 176
Location: Bavaria, Germany
Here is a TAS of The Great Waldo Search (made with lsnes rr2 beta23): http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/49580352689154033 And an alternative movie file with same frame count: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/49580328789617393 Hand in hand with the philosophy of taking the highest difficulty mode, I chose the Expert mode for the TAS, and did abstain from using 2nd controller inputs (at all but in particular) for the purpose of stopping the timer and/or forcing/guiding the screen (with the in the booklet so-called ''Special Parent Feature'' to assist young players) to go in the direction of the part of the screen in which at first Waldo is, then the scroll (and afterwards Woof, the dog). - - - About the game: The game's booklet ( https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiWiKKU95fdAhXC8ywKHZt0CKAQFjAGegQICBAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gamesdatabase.org%2FMedia%2FSYSTEM%2FNintendo_SNES%2F%2FManual%2Fformated%2FThe_Great_Waldo_Search_-_1993_-_THQ%2C_Inc..pdf&usg=AOvVaw0DvFDsFOIg8dOKYWDw3O8V ) goes over educational features that can be introduced via the 2nd controller, and the movie rules ( http://tasvideos.org/MovieRules.html ) set restrictions for TASes of educational games, but I'd estimate that this game should still be eligible for submission. Pressing exactly Select+Start+L+R can reset the game in some frames (which are probably all non-lag-frames). It seems (after spamming mouse clicks through the fast-forwarded input editor window to check if controller 1 or 2 buttons have any influence at all) that other than with Select+Start+L+R on controller 2, no singular controller 2 button among Y, Select, Start, Up, Down, Left, Right, X, L, R has any effect on the game (and in particular doesn't desynchronize a TAS if such button is spammed throughout). Controller 1's X inputs seem to not matter, and Select seems to only matter for switching between images. The controller 1's L and R buttons also toggle images (from the 1st frame in which Start can be pressed for choosing an image, until 1 frame before it is pressed), but if Left and/or L is pressed together with Right and/or R, then the current image will stay. - - - Optimization aspects: There's many frames (i.e. the range from frame 540 to 599) at which one can press Start to advance from the title screen without losing a frame afterwards, but it seems all of them allow to continue at the same earliest moment as the case in which Start is pressed at the earliest point. It seems that RNG manipulation (other than letting time pass) with inputs is only possible during the short time periods between the 1st possible frame of starting an image search and the frame in which this search actually is triggered, and it seems that the only buttons that can do so are Controller 1's Up, Down, Left, Right, L, R, B, and Y buttons (even though some combinations don't seem to change anything, maybe due to some buttons taking priority over the fact of another button being pressed or not). Note however, that Left, L, Right, and R presses (unless cancelled out with an input for the opposite direction in the same frame) are not available for RNG manipulation for the first 3 of 5 images, since instead they will swap the current image to another one to start with or continue, and since the 5th image isn't available until all previous 4 are done, RNG manipulation using those buttons is only possible for the 4th and 5th image. Different (higher or lower) paths for the magnifying glass, and item collections (of clocks and score plates) on image screens have been tested without any resulting advantages. Frame 93 seems to be the first frame in which any controller can reset the game with Select+Start+L+R, but this seems to not allow to save frames. By reducing the remaining time on the clock, the congratulation score can be manipulated aswell, but variations on the score didn't seem to have an influence on load times after image searches. However, by reducing the remaining time on the clock as far as possible (such that 1 more miss with the magnifying glass would make the player fail the search), together with an A press shortly after an image search for Waldo and the scroll finishes, the load times afterwards could be reduced. Missed magnifying glass checks with the short sounds that they do can also cancel out the long clapping noise from correct checks, but this seems irrelevant for saving or losing time. Holding X and/or Y with controller 1 moves the magnifying glass much faster around on the images (than without). Reducing the remaining clock time can cut off a few frames at the end of an image search when the next score board is loaded, because normally another A button release and press is needed to skip the automatic step-wise clock countdown, but if only 1 last step remains naturally (due to added missed checks with the magnifying glass), the darkening of the screen can be initiated earlier. It seems that Y presses generally affect not the next but the 2nd next frame (which though seems to not hold for the very beginning of a stage). For image patterns in which one needs to turn around from the right to the left or vice versa with the movement of the magnifying glass, one wants to not overshoot the step-size of the last movement towards the first item (Waldo or the scroll) that is collected by holding Y, but wants to reduce Y presses as much as possible as long as it still allows to collect the item in the same frame (in order to possibly reach over to the 2nd item earlier). Number of screen freezes after their reduction (for the 2nd image, by releasing Y for 1 frame which made the magnifying glass move slightly slower for 1 frame) during image searches: Image 1: No screen freezes Image 2: 1 screen freeze (at 1876) Image 3: No screen freezes Image 4: No screen freezes Image 5: No screen freezes Here is a file that contains a list of timestamps for milestones (mainly the frames when image searches start, and score screen fade-out frames) throughout the TAS: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/218520158963105792/485905017589596171/The_Great_Waldo_Search_timestamps.txt - - - Some (ordered by stage/image) route comparison movie material (of which there's none remaining to be implemented into the TAS) for the Expert mode image patterns: It seems that there exist exactly 5 different, possible scenarios for each of the 5 images for how the objects in these are laid out. 1st image: Pattern 1 (takes about 174 frames): The scroll is far left in the top left window of a blue building. (*) Waldo is visible on the initially centered screen, positioned at the bottom of the screen behind people that are in front of a red house. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/218520158963105792/485900706239217689/The_Great_Waldo_Search_image1_pattern1.lsmv Pattern 2 (takes about 214 frames): The scroll is visible on the initially centered screen, on the left yellow roof of a blue building. Waldo is to the right, a bit on the right side and beneath a low red building. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/218520158963105792/485900739999432706/The_Great_Waldo_Search_image1_pattern2.lsmv Pattern 3 (takes about 204 frames): The scroll is visible on the initially centered screen, to the right on a red roof of a low building at the close right tower. Waldo is far left, next to a flag in front of a tower. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/218520158963105792/485900763269169173/The_Great_Waldo_Search_image1_pattern3.lsmv Pattern 4 (takes about 128 frames; chosen fastest option): The scroll is visible on the upper right on the initially centered screen, and is on the yellow roof of a house next to a tower. Waldo is to the left on top of a yellow roof of a house with a blue wall. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/218520158963105792/485900784202940427/The_Great_Waldo_Search_image1_pattern4.lsmv Pattern 5 (takes about 161 frames): The scroll is to the far right in the 3rd blue window from the right of a building. (*) Waldo is visible on the initially centered screen, positioned at the bottom of the screen behind people that are in front of a red house. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/218520158963105792/485900806827016202/The_Great_Waldo_Search_image1_pattern5.lsmv 2nd image: Pattern 1 (takes about 177 frames): (*) The scroll is visible on the initially centered screen, to the right and back of a giant lizard. Waldo is far right at a wooden pot. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/218520158963105792/485901350375391253/The_Great_Waldo_Search_image2_pattern1.lsmv Pattern 2 (takes about 176 frames): The scroll is to the far right at the wodden pot near the top. Waldo is visible on the initially centered screen, near the bottom. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/218520158963105792/485901367475437590/The_Great_Waldo_Search_image2_pattern2.lsmv Pattern 3 (takes about 265 frames): The scroll is shortly to the right, in front and left of a giant lizard. Waldo is to the left at the bottom in front of the face of a giant lizard. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/218520158963105792/485901382398771204/The_Great_Waldo_Search_image2_pattern3.lsmv Pattern 4 (takes about 132 frames; chosen fastest option): (*) The scroll is visible on the initially centered screen, to the right and back of a giant lizard. Waldo is a bit left, to the left of a wodden pot, and to the right of a giant lizard's face. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/218520158963105792/485904864321339419/The_Great_Waldo_Search_image2_pattern4.lsmv Pattern 5 (takes about 344 frames): The scroll is far left on the upper floor, to the left and behind a giant lizard, near the feet of a spearman. Waldo is mediocrely far right in front of an earlier wooden pot. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/218520158963105792/485901407225118731/The_Great_Waldo_Search_image2_pattern5.lsmv https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/218520158963105792/485901426837422081/The_Great_Waldo_Search_image2_pattern5_faster.lsmv 3rd image: Pattern 1 (takes about 76 frames; chosen fastest option): The scroll is visible on the initially centered screen, on the burning hill at the top. Waldo is a bit left behind a water pumping blue monk. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/218520158963105792/485902372502110210/The_Great_Waldo_Search_image3_pattern1.lsmv Pattern 2 (takes about 190 frames): The scroll is at the far right border, at middle height on screen. Waldo is visible on the initially centered screen, at the bottom behind a blue monk's shield. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/218520158963105792/485902384749346826/The_Great_Waldo_Search_image3_pattern2.lsmv Pattern 3 (takes about 180 frames): The scroll is visible on the initially centered screen, under a red praying monk, to the right of the burning hill. Waldo is at the right border, to the right and behind a wooden water pump. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/218520158963105792/485902394740310016/The_Great_Waldo_Search_image3_pattern3.lsmv Pattern 4 (takes about 230 frames): The scroll is on the left side, at middle height of the next hill to the left. Waldo is visible on the initially centered screen, to the top-right behind a red monk on his knees. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/218520158963105792/485902409437282305/The_Great_Waldo_Search_image3_pattern4.lsmv Pattern 5 (takes about 312 frames): The scroll is to the right, in the middle of the next hill on the right side. Waldo is to the left, and a bit right of the next left hill. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/218520158963105792/485902421856354315/The_Great_Waldo_Search_image3_pattern5.lsmv 4th image: Pattern 1 (takes about 305 frames): The scroll is to the left at the bottom right corner of a stronghold. Waldo is a bit to the right in front of the right leg of a giant. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/218520158963105792/485902756826054666/The_Great_Waldo_Search_image4_pattern1.lsmv Pattern 2 (takes about 157 frames): (*) The scroll is visible on the initially centered screen at the bottom right, between a yellow guy with torch and a spearman. Waldo is to the right, and to the right of a person to the right of a big wooden slingshot. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/218520158963105792/485902767521792001/The_Great_Waldo_Search_image4_pattern2.lsmv Pattern 3 (takes about 262 frames): The scroll is to the right, at the back of a red shirt giant. Waldo is to the left, in front and left of another red shirt giant. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/218520158963105792/485902777642647554/The_Great_Waldo_Search_image4_pattern3.lsmv Pattern 4 (takes about 203 frames): The scroll is far right, and a bit left of the chess field. Waldo is visible on the initially centered screen, at the top left to the right of a windmill. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/218520158963105792/485902787788668958/The_Great_Waldo_Search_image4_pattern4.lsmv Pattern 5 (takes about 137 frames; chosen fastest option): (*) The scroll is visible on the initially centered screen at the bottom right, between a yellow guy with torch and a spearman. Waldo is to the right, and to the right of a big wooden slingshot. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/218520158963105792/485902797884227606/The_Great_Waldo_Search_image4_pattern5.lsmv 5th image: Pattern 1 (takes about 119 frames; chosen fastest option): The scroll is a bit to the right, in front of the red dragon from the center. Waldo is to the right between a bear and a spearman, at the left of a Waldo-fan-group. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/218520158963105792/485903129527713805/The_Great_Waldo_Search_image5_pattern1.lsmv Pattern 2 (takes about 174 frames): The scroll is almost visible on the initially centered screen, at the top right of the red dragon. Waldo is to the left under another red dragon. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/218520158963105792/485903140214800385/The_Great_Waldo_Search_image5_pattern2.lsmv Pattern 3 (takes about 181 frames): The scroll is at the left border near the top. Waldo is visible on the initially centered screen, at the top left. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/218520158963105792/485903151396945962/The_Great_Waldo_Search_image5_pattern3.lsmv Pattern 4 (takes about 274 frames): The scroll is far right above the red soldier with blue boots. Waldo is a bit left, above the bear behind the central red dragon. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/218520158963105792/485903170518908939/The_Great_Waldo_Search_image5_pattern4.lsmv Pattern 5 (takes about 224 frames): The scroll is to the left under the left red dragon. Waldo is a bit to the right and up of the central dragon. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/218520158963105792/485903181834878987/The_Great_Waldo_Search_image5_pattern5.lsmv https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/218520158963105792/485903193151373332/The_Great_Waldo_Search_image5_pattern5_faster.lsmv - - - Observations: During an image seach, A presses prevent Start presses on the same frame from working. In the following movie, https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/218520158963105792/485967806832050186/The_Great_Waldo_Search_testing_the_booklets_Parent_Feature_in_image2.lsmv I tested the 2nd controller's feature of forcing the screen to move towards the hidden items (and it works and moves the magnifying glass to the bottom right part of the Waldo sprite at first). In the following movie, https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/218520158963105792/485968516449828864/The_Great_Waldo_Search_last_frame_image_pausing.lsmv I paused the game at the last possible frame before an image search was completed, which apparently is still possible even if the 2nd item just was collected. The following movies, https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/218520158963105792/485968950853632012/The_Great_Waldo_Search_lsnes_not_noticing_the_lag_frame_at_1902.lsmv https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/218520158963105792/485968960617971714/The_Great_Waldo_Search_lag_frame_at_1902_still_allows_game_reset_via_controller_2.lsmv demonstrate an occurrence at which the screen freezes entirely for 1 frame and Start (without pressing A at the same time which would prevent Start from pausing the game) at that frame doesn't pause the game (as opposed to surrounding frames during the image search), and lsnes not incrementing its lag counter (of which I thought lsnes would at most generally overshoot the number of lag frames for SNES games, but not miss out on any). However, even though Start in this screen freeze frame doesn't pause the game, the 2nd controller's Select+Start+L+R button combination still works to reset the game in that frame. So I'm not quite sure if this is a lag frame (and an input-lag frames aswell, but then only for controller 1) and lsnes didn't count it, or it is something else, possibly part of the games mechanics. Here's a video for the TAS: Link to video
collect, analyse, categorise. "Mathematics - When tool-assisted skills are just not enough" ;) Don't want to be taking up so much space adding to posts, but might be worth mentioning and letting others know for what games 1) already some TAS work has been done (ordered in decreasing amount, relative to a game completion) by me and 2) I am (in decreasing order) planning/considering to TAS them. Those would majorly be SNES games (if not, it will be indicated in the list) I'm focusing on. 1) Spanky's Quest; On the Ball/Cameltry; Musya; Super R-Type; Plok; Sutte Hakkun; The Wizard of Oz; Battletoads Doubledragon; Super Ghouls'n Ghosts; Firepower 2000; Brain Lord; Warios Woods; Super Turrican; The Humans. 2) Secret Command (SEGA); Star Force (NES); Hyperzone; Aladdin; R-Type 3; Power Blade 2 (NES); Super Turrican 2; First Samurai. (last updated: 18.03.2018)