Topic by Aqfaq

Posted: 4/3/2006 11:11 PM
(Edited: 6/3/2008 12:02 PM)

Post subject: Monster World IV

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Aqfaq

Editor, Expert player (2460)

Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!

Monster World IV is a sequel to Wonderboy in Monster World (MW3), but I think it never got released outside Japan. I was just testing some things with it, but ran into trouble immediately. After loading a savestate, the title screen background got messed up: http://www.freewebs.com/aqfaq/mw4-error.jpg This graphical error did not reappear in playback and the movie played correctly. I guess Gens just loaded some corrupted savestate data there? I've completed the game once. It's quite linear, but the hardest part would be to choose what to buy and when. I'm quite sure that no armor or shield of any kind is needed, but buying a better sword at some point might speed up the boss figths significantly. Any ideas from those who have played the game? It would be great to have some kind of rough playthrough video, just to get an idea of the project. At the moment I feel it's too long game for me. By the way, pressing left+right makes the girl walk backwards. --- Edit-2: First boss defeated in 6 minutes. This makes me think that under 1 hour completion is unlikely. However, I managed to use enemies as platforms to reach higher places saving at least 30 seconds, so who knows what kind of shortcuts are possible eventually. To this point, the game has been very linear, but I have no idea what would be the best thing to do next. I can't continue recording until the route is made clear. Hopefully someone has time to check this movie for possible mistakes. I think it looks great. :) http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/408853094/MW4-WIP.gmv The rom is "Wonderboy 6 (MonsterWorld 4) (J) [!]".

Posted: 4/6/2006 9:06 PM

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AngerFist

Active player (432)

Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Sorry for being late to reply on your thread Aqfaq :) I just got the ROM and will check it out now. Will edit this post later. Edit: Cute game. Good things: its certainly a pretty fast game (when the character runs), good graphics, not that terribly long. Bag things: Too bad its Japanese because I cannot obviously understand what items you get and such and its a unfamiliar game to me but feel free to continue, I aint certainly complaining :) Its absolutely outragous that there is no rerecording emulator for Master System! Because, thats where allll the good Wonderboy, Alex kidd, Kenseiden, Mickey Mouse - Castle of Illusion, Slap Shot, R-Type, Teddy Boy (<--- very cute game!) and Psycho Fox games are :(

Nitrogenesis wrote:

Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!

Arc wrote:

I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.

natt wrote:

I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it

Cooljay wrote:

Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P

Posted: 4/7/2006 3:00 PM

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SXL

Joined: 2/7/2005
Posts: 571

... and dragon's trap and golvellius. too bad I know nothing about emulation programming :( and all our heroes have vanished, blip, jyzero, nitsuja... someone come save us !

I never sleep, 'cause sleep is the cousin of death - NAS

Posted: 4/7/2006 6:44 PM

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Aqfaq

Editor, Expert player (2460)

Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!

MW4 is one of the best games in the series too!

Posted: 4/7/2006 7:35 PM

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Atma

Former player

Joined: 9/1/2005
Posts: 803

AngerFist wrote:

Its absolutely outragous that there is no rerecording emulator for Master System! Because, thats where allll the good Wonderboy, Alex kidd, Kenseiden, Mickey Mouse - Castle of Illusion, Slap Shot, R-Type, Teddy Boy (<--- very cute game!) and Psycho Fox games are :(

Somehow I'm offended that you didn't include neither Sonic the Hedgehog or Sonic the Hedgehog 2. Those are by far awesome games, if not a little unfair to the player at times. Anyways, in regards to the topic, I'll probably check this out a bit later.

Posted: 5/23/2008 8:38 AM

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Aqfaq

Editor, Expert player (2460)

Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!

I found an interesting trick in this game. Normally, the blue helper creature can carry the player in the air and it can be used to perform a double jump. When the double jump is performed, the player can't call the helper creature again until the long jump animation has ended, so triple jumps should not be possible. However, the upwards stab attack has a short animation, so if you substitute the jump animation with the upwards stab, you can call the helper creature again in time to perform a triple jump. This difficult jumping method can be repeated in sequence to climb indefinitely in the air. It requires very precise timing, so it is not feasible on a console. Many sequence breaks became possible due to this trick. The most drastic warp was achieved by going over the stone wall in the right side of the town. The screen has an exit and it leads to the "water world". It would skip the whole volcano level (about 1/6 of the game). However, this shortcut failed, because the helper creature did not have certain abilities that were required to progress in the water world. Anyway, this same shortcut can be used after beating the volcano normally. It saves the time needed to collect the key to the water world, about 20-30 seconds. I also found a short zipping shortcut in the volcano level. There are some blocks that fall from the ceiling. These blocks can push the player inside the floor and with precise movements in the floor, a short zip can be performed. I have not found any other legitimate way to get inside walls yet, so this might be the only place where zipping can be done. The trick saves only a few seconds. Finally, I planned the whole route. It was not hard, afterall. The only item that is bought is the sword that costs 5500 and has damage power 4. Three gold bars are needed to buy it and three gold bars are right on the route. The sword is bought on the third visit to the town. No other items are needed, even though the final boss has an attack that cannot be dodged. So the run would include at least one little zip through a wall and then some jump trick shortcuts, which look quite nice. I'll see what else I can find. This game is not as hard to TAS as I thought. I might acually work on it more in the future, because it is a really funny game and it just got more interesting due to the new tricks.

Posted: 5/23/2008 12:20 PM

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Flygon

Joined: 11/4/2007
Posts: 1772
Location: Australia, Victoria

Going by the description this sounds like the game would be very entertaining to see a TAS of, I say keep up the good work and I look forward to the end result.

Posted: 5/23/2008 12:40 PM

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Sticky

Joined: 2/26/2007
Posts: 1360
Location: Minnesota

I would enjoy to see more WB games on this site... I loved Monster Land (for genesis?) way back when... granted, off topic, but FTW!

adelikat wrote:

I very much agree with this post.

Bobmario511 wrote:

Forget party hats, Christmas tree hats all the way man.

Posted: 5/28/2008 11:08 AM

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PresidentLeever

Joined: 10/19/2007
Posts: 39
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Nice finds Aqfaq, Im really looking forward to your run of this game. I dont know if this could help, probably not, but there's a 'lucky seven' trick to gettng lots of gold in the game I found by accident when playing it. If you manage to get 7777 gold (or 777 I assume) it will immediately increase to 77777 gold so there won't be much need to collect any more after that.

Posted: 5/28/2008 11:51 AM

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Aqfaq

Editor, Expert player (2460)

Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!

Thanks for the tip, PresidentLeever. I was aware of that gold trick, but had forgotten it. I just tested it and indeed 777 gold brings it to 7777. Anyway, all I need is 5500 gold to buy a sword, because any other item will not save any time. Now it is really hard to plan whether to collect 777 coins or 3 gold bars. It takes some time to get 777, but it also takes time to collect the gold bars and sell them to the lady. It is a close call, because the 777 trick halts the game for about 20 seconds for the money to count up. I'll probably take the gold bars, because it feels faster intuitively. At this point, it is impossible to calculate which solution would be faster, because they are funnily close to each other. It is nice to hear that people like this TAS project. Hopefully the movie will be finished someday in the distant future.

Posted: 6/3/2008 11:59 AM

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Aqfaq

Editor, Expert player (2460)

Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!

Good news and bad news. Good news: I found a sort of a "corner boost" trick that can be used to maintain the running speed while falling. Normally, jumping and falling can only be done in walking speed, but by swinging the sword at a correct frame when running off an edge of a ledge, the character keeps horizontal running speed while falling. It is not an obvious trick, because using the attack button in any other situation will slow down the speed. (On the other hand, corners are always special cases, so I should have found the trick earlier...) Bad news: I had done 40 minutes and about 40 000 rerecords, before I learned the trick. Using it consistently would save about 20-30 seconds up to the point where the WIP ends. I don't know what to do with the WIP now. Continuing it seems pointless, but restarting the whole movie feels uncomfortable too. Anyway, I'm happy that I found the trick and many other tricks during the process. I knew that something like this was likely to happen. I feel discouraged now, but maybe I'll restart the whole thing someday, especially, if somebody is willing to join the party. So, if you are looking for a good game to TAS, please take a serious look at this game. I have many useful RAM addresses, savestates and other knowledge about the game, so I will be here to contribute as much as I can, possibly recording some major parts for the next run too. Surprisingly, this game is hex-edit friendly to some extent, because there are lots of things that are reseted when a screen is loaded. This fact might make it a really funny project to work on with somebody. Here is the movie so far: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/408853094/MW4-WIP.gmv I think the WIP looks very good already.

Posted: 6/4/2008 7:41 PM

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Sticky

Joined: 2/26/2007
Posts: 1360
Location: Minnesota

Jesus Christ that is a sexual child's game. Have you seen how she shakes her ass for everything she does? Anyways, I agree it looked good. My biggest problem was the speed the game was played at. During the last "level" in you WIP I thought "Wow, so many statues." And when you completed the room 1 I just knew something bad was about to happen... and then you entered room 2, which required 5 MORE statues to be collected. How many rooms must you enter, that require you to find 5 statues? IMO that bit is the biggest downfall... but one last question; Is it required that you call your bubble bitch all the time? I noticed multiple screens where the girl whistles for the fake Kirby even though she runs from point A to point B without using it's abilities. I am wondering because it began to get annoying with 40 minutes of chirping ;P Aside from those two things, though, it rocked. Good work man! (And understandable if you don't pick this right back up again)[/i]

adelikat wrote:

I very much agree with this post.

Bobmario511 wrote:

Forget party hats, Christmas tree hats all the way man.

Posted: 6/4/2008 9:24 PM

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Aqfaq

Editor, Expert player (2460)

Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!

Thanks for your comments, stickyman05!

stickyman05 wrote:

How many rooms must you enter, that require you to find 5 statues?

Three. The ice pyramid is the most puzzle-oriented part of the game. You need to find the statues and then solve the order of the statues to open the boss rooms. That might indeed be the most boring part of the run, because the gameplay has a bit less action there and normally the entertainment is supposed to come from solving the logical problems, which are naturally ignored in a TAS.

stickyman05 wrote:

Is it required that you call your bubble bitch all the time?

I did not do it all the time, but there were a few screens where I thought I would need it, so I called it in advance, but then continued playing even after I realized I didn't need it. I suppose I also did it just for fun a few times. I had not thought it might get irritating, so it is a good thing that you mentioned it. It is a stylistical detail and it can be edited afterwards easily. It might indeed be a good idea to call the creature only when it is needed. Oh, except in the volcano, where I called it a few times for fun, so that the bouncing lava balls hit it.

Posted: 6/5/2008 6:48 AM

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Sticky

Joined: 2/26/2007
Posts: 1360
Location: Minnesota

Yeah, sorry for probably sounding harsh. I just couldn't think of another word aside from "annoying/irritating" I thought I chose the nicer of the two, but who knows! *hug* I thought those were fireballs hitting that thing XD

adelikat wrote:

I very much agree with this post.

Bobmario511 wrote:

Forget party hats, Christmas tree hats all the way man.

Posted: 6/5/2008 12:43 PM

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Aqfaq

Editor, Expert player (2460)

Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!

stickyman05 wrote:

Yeah, sorry for probably sounding harsh.

No no no, you did not sound harsh at all. The stylistical choices for this game are under construction, as are all other aspects of it.

stickyman05 wrote:

*hug*

Aww... *hug*

Posted: 7/27/2008 5:43 AM

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Twisted_Eye

He/Him

Active player (332)

Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 629
Location: Seattle, WA

I recently played through the game with my girlfriend and I must say Mosterworld IV screams guaranteed publication. Your wip made our jaws drop to the floor, Aqfaq, and I am seriously looking forward to any further progress!

Posted: 7/27/2008 11:12 AM

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Aqfaq

Editor, Expert player (2460)

Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!

Thank you, Twisted Eye! I'm glad you enjoyed the partial movie. It is a shame that many people have missed this great game, because it was released exclusively in Japan. By the way, here are some memory addresses for the future hero who tries to TAS this game: Player character: 00FFA122 - X-position 00FFA124 - X-sub-pixel-position 00FFB056 - Y-position 00FFB058 - Y-sub-pixel-position 00FFDA77 - Player HP 00FFDA7D - Life drop counter 00FFDA80 - Gold Bosses: 00FFB49C - Boss HP 00FFB49D - Boss invulnerability counter 00FFB4A0 - Boss HP 2 00FFB4A1 - Boss invulnerability counter 2 Other: 00FFB05A - Helper Y-position 00FFC73A - Screen horizontal position

Posted: 8/3/2008 5:31 AM

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Twisted_Eye

He/Him

Active player (332)

Joined: 10/17/2005
Posts: 629
Location: Seattle, WA

I've started a new TAS using the new trick, less than two minutes into the game I'm already 190 frames ahead. Kept having to redo and redo to make up frames I was losing to you! How far I'll be able to keep going this week is completely up in the air, but it felt great to give it a good couple-hour head start. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1607512845/MW4%20Twisted%20Eye.gmv

Posted: 8/3/2008 11:57 AM

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Aqfaq

Editor, Expert player (2460)

Joined: 4/8/2005
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Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!

Oh yeees!

Posted: 10/13/2008 3:33 PM

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Aqfaq

Editor, Expert player (2460)

Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!

Hey, here are some map leftovers from my test run. The green dots are the statues that need to be collected. The ending room is marked red. Colored squares represent doors. Pyramid level 1

Pyramid level 2

I hope this helps somebody in the future. Upthorn, what do you think about this game? I think it would fit your style. Edit: Here is the current best time for the first few screens: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/721083000/MWIV-WIP2.gmv

Posted: 4/3/2011 7:38 PM
(Edited: 4/3/2011 11:20 PM)

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Sonikkustar

Skilled player (1307)

Joined: 9/7/2007
Posts: 1354
Location: U.S.

Hey, I was thinking I might want to do this now that Sonic 2 is finished. I might want to do this with a coauthor though, so feel free to say anything if you want to join in.

Homepage SVN

Posted: 4/3/2011 9:42 PM

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Zeupar

Joined: 5/14/2007
Posts: 525
Location: Pisces-Cetus filament

I stumbled upon this gem recently while doing some research to find a good game to TAS. This information could be useful.

AzumaK wrote: I swear my 1 year old daughter's favorite TASVideo is your R4MI run :3 xxNKxx wrote: ok thanks handsome feos :D Help improving TASVideos!

Posted: 4/3/2011 11:41 PM

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Sonikkustar

Skilled player (1307)

Joined: 9/7/2007
Posts: 1354
Location: U.S.

http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/987406674/Monster%20World%20IV%20TAS.gmv Heres a little test I did, It gains a frame over Aqfaq, but then it loses it. >_> It seems like Mukki is busy with other games. So I might put this off & do another game untill he is free.

Homepage SVN

Posted: 4/4/2011 2:35 PM

Post subject: THAT'S IT! TAS THIS!

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Aqfaq

Editor, Expert player (2460)

Joined: 4/8/2005
Posts: 1573
Location: Gone for a year, just for varietyyyyyyyyy!!

For clarity, here's the old unoptimized 40min WIP: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/408853094/MW4-WIP.gmv This is the latest true WIP: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/650957579/MW4-Latest-A.gmv Can you still gain a frame, Sonikkustar? (Sorry, I didn't watch your GMV yet.) I'm not sure whether my sub-pixels are optimized when entering the doors and getting the chest? I'm happy for the discovery that it is sometimes faster to use the shield instead of the sword when running off ledges. Also, for fast acceleration, it is better to take a few walking steps before running. --- It seems that I never posted my semi-finished plan for collecting coins, so here it is: We need 5500 gold to buy a sword after the sewer boss. This "5500-sword" is the only thing worth buying in an optimal TAS. Everything else wastes time. There are two options for getting the money: 1. The Gold Bar Route --> Get 3 gold bars from chests and exchange them to money (worth 6000 gold at this point of the game). 2. The Lucky Coin Route --> Get exactly 777 gold, so an Easter egg in the game magically raises it to 7777 gold. Here are estimated lost frames with the Gold Bar Route: ~930 frames wasted for the gold bar chests. (It takes ~310 frames to open a chest and we need three of them.) ~750 frames wasted in exchanging the gold bars to money. ~30 frames lost in item usage, because gold bars take items slots. Total: ~1710 frames lost Here are estimated lost frames with the Lucky Coin Route: After some testing, it seems that less than ~100 frames are lost while collecting coins to get 777 gold! But 1260 frames are lost while the game is halted and gold is counted from 777 to 7777. Total: ~1360 frames lost I'm pretty sure now it's faster to get 777 coins instead of gold bars. (My old WIP collected gold bars...) It requires some work to plan where to get the coins, though. Luckily, there are lots of coins directly on the route. In my old WIP, I accidentally managed to get 594 gold without even trying, 0 frames lost. 777 - 594 = 183 So, we still need 183 gold in less than 450 frames for the Lucky Coin Route to be faster than the Gold Bar Route. I already managed to get 86 extra gold wasting only 11 frames: 23 gold in the first castle (from a pig dude while waiting a lift, 0 frames lost) 18 gold from three coins in volcano (by jumping higher on a door that has five coins above it, lost 6 frames) 45 gold from two coins after volcano boss (lost 5 frames) That leaves 97 gold to be collected from somewhere. From the volcano we could get: random 38-95 gold, a bag from stoneman (lost ~3 frames) random 38-95 gold, a bag from stoneman (lost ~5 frames) 25 gold, three coins above lava fountains? 1 gold, one little coin from a green worm? (Wastes ~8 frames, but can make huge difference, if we would otherwise end up with a sum of 776) In the volcano, there are also these "inferior opportunities", but these are probably used for enemy manipulation anyway (yeah, collecting coins affects enemy movements!): ~6 gold, jump to get a coin that is directly on the route (lost 16 frames) ~6 gold, jump to get a coin (lost 16 frames) ~6 gold, jump to get a coin (lost 16 frames) ~6 gold, jump to get a coin (lost 16 frames) ~12 gold, jump to get two coins (lost 16 frames) 6-9 gold, jump higher over a fireball (lost ~5-15 frames) After the volcano, in the sewer, we could get: ~19 gold, from three (or a few more) coins in the water falls (lost 6 frames or a few more). (We may already have 7777 gold at this point.) In any case, the waterfall coins will probably be useful for manipulating the upcoming miniboss bird. This should be all, pretty much. All other coins are either too far or unavoidable, so the 777 coins need to be gathered using some combination of the options listed above. It requires some testing, but it's not too hard. (Sorry, if the plan contains mistakes. It was done a while ago.) --- Good news: While planning the coin route, I edited the old 40min WIP multiple times, so I can verify with a 100% certainty that ALMOST ANY PART OF THE RUN CAN BE EDITED AT ANY TIME WITHOUT DESYNCHS! 8-D I'd like to TAS this, but I'm busy. Maybe I could co-author tiny parts, someday...

Posted: 7/21/2012 3:32 AM

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Maur

Joined: 1/31/2005
Posts: 95

http://telebunny.net/talkingtime/showthread.php?t=13244 Basically, if you reach Rapadanga without saving the game, then the debug merchant appears behind one of the bushes in the long featureless screen to the right of the palace entrance (the background layer behind where the holy fountain is). Each time you talk to him, he stuffs 9999 gold in your wallet, and he sells the legendary sword/shield and the debug armor. The debug armor lets you change pepe's level at will. Meaning, you can switch to level 2 pepe and not freeze the game when you try to blow out a flame in stream sanctuary. Meaning, you can probably skip the volcano, barring anything else stupid. And since the armor activates pepe if you don't have him, you can probably get him in the sky castle too, and then break the hell out of the place with infinite jump. I say probably because I read this 30 minutes ago, and those past 30 minutes were spent reaching to and talking to the merchant to confirm this works at all. Haven't gotten far enough in the game yet to test further, but I'm pretty sure I know what I'll be doing over the next day or two.