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Back when FinalFighter came up with the trick (which is, let's admit, revolutionary), no one was sure it's even supposed to work. He made a ROM hack what recreates the conditions that need to be met, and it was verified on a powerpak. Debugging it was tricky, but in the end it was concluded that it's possible to make it work. But no one suspected that the very concept won't work on console. I don't think that's what you're saying tho. If the conditions are different, improving them and improving the run might fix the verification. If conditions used in that run are outright impossible, then it's pretty sad.
Start from this post:
http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=223361#223361
Another point. Inaccuracy itself doesn't spoil the joy of tasing. We want to optimize games, we do it. If they are inaccurately ran, well, we optimize romhacks, fine. But accuracy is still required by movie rules for a reason. Possibility of console verification was still a basis since the beginning.
So while TASing on accurate emulators doesn't kill the joy from tasing, using inaccurate emulators for that might kill the joy of some people involved, since there's quite a lot of spheres that overlap here: TASing, video encoding, emulator coding, software tool development, hardware tool development, even presence at events like GDQ. The more spheres are involved, the more importance accuracy gets.
I want to say that even before the first SMW game end glitch was verified, seeing that was my dream. And an even crasier dream was showing that on console before thousands of people at AGDQ. It happened! It became the highlight of the event for years! Standing ovations after Pokemon Plays Twitch, man, isn't that one of the nicest things TASing ever caused? Well, after dethroning Todd Rogers of course.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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The verification movie can't end properly because the game crashes at frame 116817 (out of 117134). But the Extra mode still gets unlocked. And audio gets dumped. And BG is there. It just doesn't sync :D
Oh, and hourglass complains about the version the movie was recorded with. I run it with r81, it says unknown version, and in the author's video HG doesn't have a version in the dialog name. And the game files I have don't match the author's hashes. But the hash of th15.exe is the same as in the author's video (I applied the 1.00b patch). Lots of fun.
EDIT:
Switched hourglass to english locale. Started syncing, sound died. LOL.
EDIT:
And the game crashes right before movie end as well. Frame 100241.
If everything else works, we need an extended movie so we could try providing encodes from it without crashing in the middle.
kopiapoa, please post an extended movie, including all the material that should go into the final encode, and even then it should have some extra input in case it crashes earlier than expected. The movie must be identical to the one you submitted until the frame where it ends, just record from there.
Meanwhile, we found out that the dump still gets the audio even if the game is silent. BUT it desyncs consistently (in the same way) when avi is captured. Right now I'm capturing audio only. If capturing video only fails, we'll still have to reject the run.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Warp, there's no counter-anything once your opponent turns on cheats. If you love when people repeatedly insult you, don't expect the same from me. Topic closed.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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arandomgameTASer wrote:
And that discredits his entire argument why exactly?
That discredits his entire argument exactly because it uses the dirtiest sort of cheating in order to enforce his otherwise flawed demands.
If you and I have an argument, and you are ready to put effort required to prove me wrong, or, if needed, have a compromise, but I instead hit you with a knife, we can not really expect that the argument is gonna resume the usual way. Because I've just proven that I'm not interested in any outcome really, I'm interested in acting destructively.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Yep. It's just the most offensive single word I've ever read on this forum. Especially knowing how I treat this site.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Arc wrote:
What I'm getting at is that the starman shouldn't be cucked by a few outspoken forum members, nor by the site admins—being a tool to carry out their will.
Once I respected you for keeping up to date with TASing over the course of all these yours. Now I see that you've completely lost your mind. None of your opinions will ever be taken with with the smallest bit of seriousness.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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To Twice-Baked Bowfish.
Shortly after making my last post in this thread I spawned a staff discussion about why educational games are mostly not suitable, which TAS requirements they don't meet, how to objectively check whether they meet them or not, so about all that can be unclear here. The currently present rule about educational games (updated recently) reflects the agreement of all the staff members involved in this discussion, and when the judgment it made, it will explain how the updated rule resolves all the complaints.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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DrD2k9 wrote:
It may take longer for a run's induction into (or expulsion out of) what is essentially our 'Hall of Fame,' but it would be a directed system that would hopefully reduce stress on feos as well as spreading out the responsibility.
It's not stressful, it's just taking me long to get around. And setting up a machineneural network system that'd generate solutions everyone will be happy with, is exactly the kind of stress that no one wants here. If everyone can control it, then no one can, despite of how good and reasonable they might be.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Arc wrote:
feos wrote:
Are you saying diversity is a bad requirement?
A mediocre run should not get a star for the sake of diversity at the expense of a more deserving run, which was one of the primary purposes of my post.
We're not destarring SM64 or OoT runs because we need space for Warcraft or Coca Cola Kid. We're destarring them if those games are already represented well. We only star the same franchise on the same platform if the branches are substantially different and showcase unrelated aspects of TASing. Like these:
[1649] NES Mega Man 2 by aglasscage, finalfighter, pirohiko & Shinryuu in 23:48.51[1686] NES Mega Man by Shinryuu & finalfighter in 12:23.34[3595] NES Rockman 4 Minus Infinity "all items" by Baddap1 in 34:43.72
I was trying to turn stars into an actual tier, only highlighting the very best runs regardless of diversity. Because cherry picking runs into stars makes it not a tier. So when NewcomerRec list became a thing, I thought it would be the only one needing cherry picking, and stars would become more of a tier. That idea was taken down by admins years ago. So I had to obey diversity and quotas.
Arc wrote:
I say to stop trying to fill arbitrary quotas and instead focus on respecting the greatest works and their creators.
Arc wrote:
Now that there are 100 starred movies, I think that 100 should be a hard cap.
Nice. So 10% is arbitrary even if it's approved by admins, and 100 stars even if we have 9000000000 moons is not arbitrary?
feos wrote:
Are you saying diversity is a bad requirement?
Arc wrote:
feos wrote:
So far Arc suggests to overrepresent Mario, Zelda, Castlevania and MAGA Man even harder to fix that.
You are developing a pattern of intentionally misrepresenting my position because it is easier to attack than what I actually write.
I'm still unsure if you think our diversity requirement is a good or a bad thing.
Arc wrote:
It's amusing that you brought up Jetpack, because you clearly never checked the actual thread of that movie. It contains lots of cool discussion, which nearly caused me to ragequit the site. Start from this post. adelikat suggested to talk to FractalFusion to resolve it, he was the senior judge back then. So we delayed starring that run, and then, knowing the actual demand and seeing some free space, I added it.
As for "comfy relationship" between Radiant and myself, are you sure you want me to link you ALL posts when it was the opposite of true? Because there's overwhelming majority of such posts over the course of several years.
Arc wrote:
You represent the flaw in the star system. TASes get a star based on forum shilling rather than someone who is dedicated to examining the pros and cons of every TAS and doing so without bias on behalf of what the whole community prefers. A few forum shills don't represent the whole community.
First of all, your requirement is outright impossible. No one is able to fully understand all the good parts of all games of all genres. Next, there's another requirement in reality. A starman is not just expected to understand the good parts of the games on the basis of knowing what's going on in them gameplay-wise. He is also expected to understand what laymen are going to enjoy, regardless of not knowing the game.
Now, what does a starman do when he doesn't understand anything in the game? He has to listen to people who do. This is how Chrono Trigger got starred. Not because we were out of RPGs. Not because we wanted to fill the space. But because we listen to feedback.
Arc wrote:
Is there really no one who finds it absurd that Coca Cola Kid has a star for the sake of diversity while the 3rd-highest rated TAS on the site does not?
It's not for the sake of diversity. It's because we listen to the audience and check runs against starman guidelines, while also trying to make decisions that make people happier despite of them representing opposing camps.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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See, NES is overrepresented, and we want diversity. So far Arc suggests to overrepresent Mario, Zelda, Castlevania and Maga Man even harder to fix that.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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And people were asking for it.
Also, it's interesting how STAR KINO almost matches http://tasvideos.org/NewcomerCorner.html
EDIT:
Are you saying diversity is a bad requirement?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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On the other hand, I found the filter to block the entire sharing div:
tasvideos.org##.misc:nth-of-type(1) > div
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Make your suggestions then :]
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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I agree about the level, but it's not like we were simply filling in space. Lowest entertainment ratings might get dropped if we need vacant places, but I'd rather not drop just because they are outdated, but rather because they are not that entertaining in the end.
And 10% of Moons is the best quota we might have, having hard coded number isn't wise.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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There's no way to poll youtube views/likes right now. And we don't want to blindly add that in, so it'd need human to evaluate in the end. And youtube views and likes can be botted easily. Our rating can't.
So while the rating system does indeed have major flaws, it's still more stable than youtube if you think about it.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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And I know how to make this thing work.
First of all, the idea was to have a list of movies that are NOT vaultable and NOT covered by existing movie classes. Because yeah, you won't find them unless you know they exist and where they are.
Second, with the current system there'd be no clear definition for such game group. So marking something in terms of belonging to some "special" category won't work.
To make everything work we need 2 things:
1. Ability to list all unvalutable movies. This was already proposed and by the nature of our movies it's probably easier to do for unvaultable branches than for any% runs (100% already has a class)?
2. Ability to list movie tokes with the not operator. That'd allow to exclude all branches that have movie goal classes behind them. And the list would finally become automatic.
However, there's a chance that keeping such list manually is more efficient in the end.
Now that I look at the list, the words that come to my mind are: "Arbitrary goal" and "Esoteric goal". Because they indeed are such goals, they just happened to be entertaining.
If you don't like these terms, what about putting all such runs into Demonstration category? Huh? I love this idea the most actually! The list might just need some cleanup.
The definition seems to be exactly what we needed:
http://tasvideos.org/MovieClassGuidelines.html#Demonstration
Dude... We were so stupid.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Arc the limit has always been 10% of Moons. Right now it's 100 x 1117. We have 10 vacant places.
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Except they're using Flash to play the video aren't they?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Alright, after watching both, this is what I think.
UMK3 has screens like this which you can hardly beat. And it reduces the Nintendo overdose, both character wise and conceptually (dark tribal caricature gore and brutality over bright and childish happy universe).
But the former is a bit too long, while showing the same chars, the same backgrounds, basically the same moves and slightly varying glitches. And the latter presents levels and chars that are unique every time, so they have unique moves, and the run is 3 times shorter. So SSBM is more condensed and versatile, while not being less intense.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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http://tasvideos.org/Movies-NES-SNES-Group21-RatingE-Obs.html
The vote count is really low, but the very fact that -infinity's previous run SOMEHOW beats ALL... is kinda telling. Newcomored the current run of -infinity, even though it only has a single vote.
http://tasvideos.org/Movies-Genesis-Group20-RatingE.html
Sonic is odd, because the recommended run still has the highest entertainment rating, while S3K ring attack is the only one of top Sonic runs that has rates lower than 8.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
S3K has the same branch starred. That run only got a single vote during its year of existence. Even if it's more optimal, it's clearly less attractive for some weird reason.
ThunderAxe31 wrote:
http://tasvideos.org/Movies-Group25-RatingE.html
The 2 best rated runs are very recent and have low amount of votes. I want to give some Crash game a star, but I need more people to vote (or post here) first.
Ready Steady Yeti wrote:
http://tasvideos.org/Movies-Moons-Stars-GBA-Group21-RatingE.html
The situation is mostly the same as with Crash, just here one run is very recent, and another one is being published. Some GBA Mega Man game might have a star, and I'd like to know how well Zook stands compared to official candidates.
RE4 will follow soon.
And it's finally starred. Sorry for taking 4.5 years.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
