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Oh well. Potion is the best item in that case, because no detour is needed to pick it up. Just need Missingno. to use Water Gun so we can use the Potion after being hit.
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Thomaz wrote:
Oh, you're right. That would work! Potion wouldn't be too useful because the heal at Saffron is required so Bulbausaur would be at full health. But yes, yes, the Ball would work!
Excellent! We need that Poke Ball in the 6th item slot, so that means getting 5 other items. I think it would be best to pick up the Antidote and Potion in Viridian Forest, and buy 3 unnecessary items in the Pewter City mart before the Poke Ball.
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The NES seems less reliable with TASbot than other consoles, particularly because the hardware is more variable than later Nintendo systems. If you'd like to show off a long run, I think it would be much better to choose a game on the SNES or N64 to have a better chance of synchronization.
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Thomaz wrote:
Yeah, I had been thinking of that as well. I doubt getting a MissingNo from grass really is faster.
Wait...It's a long shot, but you could death-warp from Route 6, faint from the Dojo guy, get the sixth item x255, then walk to Celadon and get the Fresh Water.
The only issue would be getting an item that can be used in battle to get 255. Bulbasaur would be healed after Saffron and after fainting... Are there any items one can use?
Well, there's the X-Special in the tunnel between Vermillion and Cerulean.
What about a Potion? That can be used in battle, and there are several that can be easily picked up along the way. Or, if we intend to catch Missingno, we could buy a Poke Ball, duplicate it up to 129, miss once, and then catch it to end up with 255 Poke Balls. Would that work?
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p4wn3r wrote:
Interesting. Unless I'm missing something, the TAS shouldn't need to buy an Abra at Celadon, since we can T-fly a Missingno. by dying from a random encounter.
I think the Abra is necessary so we can warp back to Saffron without giving water to the guard. I don't think there are any places to use the Escape Rope in Celadon, so Abra is faster.
Also, I'm not sure this route would be faster than using the Cooltrainer glitch. However, since I can't figure out how to use the Cooltrainer glitch effectively, I'll work on this TAS instead.
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Thomaz wrote:
Yeah, so forget about the catching another Pokemon thing. It's not required. I just beat the game in 18 minutes. On Pokemon Red though, so I needed more coins for Abra (and was dumb in getting it). I reckon it might go to 17 in a segmented unassisted run. Maybe even 16, but I doubt it. Good stuff though, regardless.
Do you have a video? Or, could you post the exact route please? I'm interested in trying this out myself but I'm not sure I understand what is required to make the glitch work.
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Brilliant run, well done! Super Mario Bros. without warps or running is one of my favourite accomplishments in TASing, it's amazing to prove that it's possible and the new 4-3 route is very nice.
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was0x wrote:
Another way to wall zipping
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=nN8FEJysbgs#t=623
If you select 31th(32? I don't remember exact number) and select pokemon during battle then run, field bgm will be changed to bicycle theme even if you don't ride bicycle.
Jumping over ledge triggers wall zipping.
That's interesting, and quite useful for Japanese version runs. Do you think it could be combined with the Dokokashira Door glitch to improve the current Pokemon Green TAS? That's another run using the Select glitch, so anything else that uses the glitch to increase movement speed would be fair game.
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I'm trying to plan a route for the any% TAS now that we know about the Mount Moon glitch. There are only 2 necessary battles, against the Rival and against a level 9 Weedle, and we don't even need to win the first one. If we still need to get Charmander's lower special EV byte to 0x36, the fastest way to do that is through those two battles. Squirtle grants 50 special EV and Weedle grants 20, so to get it to a hexademical value of 36 (DEC 54), we want to split the Weedle's experience 5 ways. That means catching 4 Pokemon before that fight, and they should all be the same species to save time on Pokedex entries. Since Pidgey has the shortest cry in the game, it would be fastest to catch 4 Pidgey on Route 2, although this means taking 2 extra steps in the grass because of the encounter rule. A level 5 Pidgey should be able to defeat the level 9 Weedle more easily than Charmander, because it gets a same-type attack bonus with Gust.
So if the assembly code works the same way in this run, the route would involve buying 5 Poke Balls in Viridian City, catching 4 Pidgey on Route 2, sending out Charmander against Weedle and then switching between Pidgeys until using a level 5 Pidgey to defeat that Weedle. Then the run would go to the spot that allows the cinematic walk-through-walls, proceed to Cerulean Cave, and catch Ditto.
The problem with this route is getting an Ether or Elixir. It's impossible to pick up items while executing the cinematic walk-through-walls glitch, so it may be necessary to execute the glitch twice in order to get an Ether from Mount Moon or somewhere else.
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andypanther wrote:
Could japanese Yellow be faster?
Quite possibly, but much less entertaining. Most of our audience is English-speaking, and wouldn't know the difference between broken Japanese text vomited onscreen and grammatically correct Japanese.
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That's brilliant, great work MrWint.
As for other glitches in the Japanese versions, the first thing that comes to mind is the glitch with Select. Since the Select button's functionality is patched in the English version of the games, I can't think of a way to exploit that particular trick, so I'll work on figuring out the fastest route to ACE with this walk-through-walls glitch.
edit: I think the fastest way to get a Pokémon with Transform is by entering Cerulean Cave. Ditto has a 1% chance of appearing on 1F of the cave, and all the other encounters there have at least two moves. If you could set up the right prerequisites for ACE, then the run would only need the Brock skip WTW once.
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I'd say the voters are biased, but probably not so biased that it prevents worthwhile movies from getting published. One of the biggest biases is probably the fact that movies by well-known TASers seem to get more views and more votes after being submitted. We could try hiding the names of authors for a day or two after a movie is submitted, but this would cause serious logistical issues, wouldn't work for prominent projects, and I'm not convinced that this problem is in serious need of solving.
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MrWint wrote:
Nice graph :)
I didn't do the math before, but since catching or evolving costs around 17 seconds each and stuff like wrong warps cost around 12 seconds, there's definitely a theoretical minimum in terms of total time to catch all 151, especially since all of that is not including travel time, and not considering the extra amount of time spent for setting up glitches for otherwise unobtainable Pokémon.
I assume the most time can be saved by managing to break the game faster than in 43min, the actual catching simply can't be sped up indefinitely.
I suspect that if there's a way to improve this run, it will come from either finding a way to use the special case trainer-fly to get useful arbitrary code execution in Viridian Forest, or finding a way to use the Brock skip walk-through-walls glitch in the English version of the game.
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Mothrayas wrote:
Since I figured some people would find it interesting (including myself), here's a table with every Pokémon (in Pokédex order) and when it's caught/evolved/obtained in this run, and how. Timestamps are based off of the temp YouTube encode.
Very nice. Now here's the same data, in graph form:
As you can see, there's not much catching for the first 43 minutes, but after wrong warping into Victory Road, MrWint proceeds to acquire Pokémon at a rate of 2 per minute for the remainder of the run.
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Has anyone seen the trick used in this Youtube video? The first use is at 8:12 and it shows up repeatedly, it's a variant of the Brock glitch that gives the player the ability to walk through walls. I haven't managed to replicate it yet, I tweeted at the uploaded asking how it works. It's a very impressive run, and using that glitch to encounter Ditto sooner could shave more minutes off the possible improvement to the current TAS. It could even be used to enter Cerulean Cave and directly catch a wild Ditto, although I'm not certain that's faster than catching level 7 Mew and raising it a few levels.
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Once you free your mind about a concept of badges and Pokemon needing to be correct, you can do whatever you want. Strong yes vote.
I don't see how to get a minute of improvements from this run, MrWint mentioned a few seconds but that's about it. However, the Pidgey/Jynx encounter at 1:50:43 (in the temp encode) does look a bit slower than it could be, is there a reason it wasn't possible to get an earlier encounter and/or a Rattata there?
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MrWint wrote:
jlun2 wrote:
On another note, how does trainer-fly manage to get that glitched? :o
The ID of the text box displayed before the Trainer-Fly fight is stored and can be manipulated by various actions like talking to NPCs. If you set it to an ID which doesn't exist in the Trainer-Fly map, you can get the text pointer into ram. Texts have the awesome feature of inline assembler (byte 0x8) which lets the game execute everything after it. Hard to set up, but probably the fastest ACE in the game (without save corruption).
Do we know any more about setting that up, by the way? I know I made a run that causes a crash in Viridian Forest when it starts reading some invalid text, but I don't know where the pointer ends up in that RAM or whether it can be manipulated.
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Samsara wrote:
Dyshonest wrote:
It is no different than allowing save corruption to give overpowered Pokemon/corrupt things and get no battles ever/etc
Not getting battles has nothing to do with any form of corruption, save or memory or otherwise. That's just simple luck manipulation.
I think he's referring to the latest Pokemon Silver run, which uses ACE to warp to the final boss and skip the battle.
The 96 exit SMW run uses glitches that you would consider memory corruption, namely null sprites and stunned sprites. These were used to lead to ACE before the chuck-eat method was found, and they quite obviously aren't used to the same effect in the 96 exit run. Since you're arguing that all memory corruption is ACE and there shouldn't be room for more than one memory corruption category, does that mean the current 96 exit run shouldn't exist alongside the ACE run?
This raises a question similar to the problem with first-gen Pokemon TASes. I considered doing an improvement to the no warp glitch run of Pokemon Blue, which would be a "no arbitrary code execution" run. The problem is that given what we understand of the game's code, we know now that the glitches used in that route involve getting the game to load certain RAM values which can be manipulated semi-arbitrarily to get unusual random encounters. Rather than arbitrary code execution, it's arbitrary data loading. The Pokemon ACE glitch doesn't involve memory corruption, but memory manipulation, and this seems like a bit of a grey area for a "no arbitrary code execution" route.
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Android: Jack and Jill. It's an interesting puzzle/platformer where the protagonist can only change direction by hitting a wall, so there's an intended route through each level and a lot of ways to sequence break. There's a powerup that makes you move faster, normally only long enough to get through a segment that requires the powerup, but making a sequence break in one of those segments lets you keep the powerup and speed through more of the level.
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thatguy wrote:
Biggest improvement on the site? (Although I imagine that this would technically be a new category rather than an improvement.) Contrast the current Super Mario Bros movie, which features a improvement of 0.0000243 masterjuns.
I looked at the current list of notable improvements, and the biggest improvement there is 0.982 masterjuns for the Kirby's Adventure movie.
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I agree that total control seems like a new type of running compared to regular glitches. Take Pokémon Red and Blue. Most of the iconic glitches involve somehow manipulating RAM; the Missingno. glitch pulls data from the player's chosen name and uses it to load data with index numbers matching characters in that name. The Mew Glitch pulls data from the last Pokémon the player battled and uses it to load an encounter with a level matching that Pokémon's Attack modifier and an index number matching its Special stat. Although these RAM glitches are useful for loading unusual data, they don't involve executing the unusual data as code. I agree with Warp that total control TASes should be a separate category from other glitched runs, and I don't think we should allow total control TASes to be the "100%" category.
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What an astonishing improvement! This run is 2.0375 masterjuns faster than the previous run. Yes vote.
(A masterjun is an order of magnitude of improvement. Masterjuns = log10 [previous/new])
As you can see, there's not much catching for the first 43 minutes, but after wrong warping into Victory Road, MrWint proceeds to acquire Pokémon at a rate of 2 per minute for the remainder of the run.