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janus wrote:
At what point does speed cut on enternainment?
I think this thread answered your question perfectly. How do you balance speed and entertainment? Ask 10 people and you will get 10 answers.
Its the eternal debate in the TAS community. Maybe this thread will finally answer the question, as well as all politics, religion, and the meaning of life. Most likely we will get nowhere and you will just have to find where you consider the line to be.
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DarkKobold wrote:
Just looking at the thread for Deign's Mega Man 1 - People were throwing adulation at him for a less than 1% (.93%) improvement to an already short movie.
Actually he discovered a left-zipping technique, which (at least for rockman fans) is quite a surprising move. I can see how people would miss it, but it is very possible to see and appreciate in full speed.
However, there are countless publications that fit with your argument, so I don't mean to try to squash your point.
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I didn't realize nineko & shiny were in that group. That makes about 5 people I know of that were really good about watching all submissions that no longer vote. And the average vote count for the lesser known games is about 5-10, so 5 is certainly a significant % of viewers.
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Dwedit wrote:
adelikat wrote:
One thing I was thinking about. The game uses flags in memory to determine if events have occured. For instance, I found the erdrick flag in order to more easily do solo quests.
Would it be possible for these corruption glitches to alter those? Like if the flag for deciding to put in the ortega - king hydra fight could be manipulated, it could save a lot of time in a TAS.
Find the flags with a cheat finder. If they're in the 71C-7FF,000-01B range, then they are manipulable with the swamp glitch, depending on if the complimenting high byte is greater than zero.
IIRC, they were in the 6xxx range, but I could be wrong. I've since lost those addresses. I'd say it is worth looking into though. Maybe there are some nice flags in that range.
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ShinyDoofy wrote:
I thought the hacking was part of porting Tails just the way he is in Sonic 3? (I have actually never played a Sonic game except the first one on SMS).
Yes, and the consequence of this is the above discussion.
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Another thought would be to weight peoples ratings based on their average rating. So if someone rated all 10's, then a 10 is an average rating and would be weighted as a 5.
Then the average rating would truly reflect which movies people thought were awesome.
But still, this doesn't take into account the issue that we have turned away a lot of good/verteran TASers & viewers with the change away from a voting system. Turning away these community members doesn't sound like progress.
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Well, when watching the knuckles hack, I didn't get that impression. The player was still able to stay within the confines of the level more rather than hovering over it. That was my general impression. If I am wrong about that then perhaps that publication was a mistake.
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I also was a big proponent of the new rating system, and after seeing it in action, I'd say it was a failure.
I'd like to see a return to the yes/no/meh system. I know a lot of people who have quit voting/contributing on submissions once this was removed. That is the exact opposite of what we want.
I'd like to keep the ability to rate submissions, however. It could be kept hidden and not apart of the submission process, but it would be nice to rate a movie when I watch it and not have to remember later when it is published. I only suggest this because it seems easy now that the ratings have been implemented. If it is hassle, it probably isn't worth it.
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Xkeeper wrote:
It's Tails and it's fast.
Unfortunately, it really suffers from SMW syndrome. Namely, flying over most of the levels :\
Some of the best parts were in Spring Yard where you basically zoomed though shit at top speed.
It's rare, but suprisingly I agree with Xkeeper here. As several have said, the game is clearly not designed for the spindash, and this movie takes advantage of that (and flying) to basically skip over everything. I don't see how this provides for an entertaining TAS.
What if someone made a SMB3 hack that put in the SMW cape and proceeded to fly over all the levels? Its pretty much a bad concept all around.
In addition, the spindashing apparently allows for some rather significant glitches not possible in the original game. We had a discussion on this subject with the Zelda outlands submission. The consensus there was that breaking a hack wasn't a very entertaining game concept.
I do not think this hack should be "approved" for publication. Despite the high ratings, I see a lot of other people not being to impressed as well (apparently an 8 is poor entertainment value these days).
nineko wrote:
I'm not that familiar with the submission system, but if it's possible to switch the current author from "marzojr" to "marzojr & xxx"
An author's name can be easily changed after submission, so it would not be required to resubmit in order to add an author's name
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One thing I was thinking about. The game uses flags in memory to determine if events have occured. For instance, I found the erdrick flag in order to more easily do solo quests.
Would it be possible for these corruption glitches to alter those? Like if the flag for deciding to put in the ortega - king hydra fight could be manipulated, it could save a lot of time in a TAS.
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Hyena wrote:
At the beginning of the first level after the first enemies are defeated and it tells you you can move on, one player can knee the other player through the right side of the screen and it causes it to scroll much faster than if the players walk. I don't know how feasible this is, but it seemed to save me some time when I tried it.
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I was speaking of the shortcut in lv 6 that honorablejay mentioned. But in a 1p TAS I guess the zipping glitch could also be used to save time depending on circumstances. I discovered it back when doing an older version of the 2p TAS but couldn't find a use for it in that version. I think maybe this trick is what you are referring to you? It is where you use the L+R flying knee trick to fall into the platform where the enemies are, and appear on the left side of it.
And yeah, that old 1p TAS was definately improvable. In general, the site policy is to prefer 2p runs _over_ 1p runs unless a 1p run can be completed faster, in which case we tend to have both.
As such, the 1p DD2 TAS was published because it was faster than the 2p run at the time.
Regardless if it is publishable are not, I'd be interested in seeing your TAS, maybe you could upload it and post it here ^_^
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moozooh wrote:
but I don't understand why a question on delaying the publishing hasn't even been considered.
The reason it wasn't considered it simple. I didn't see andrewg's post when I was reading the thread (it was inconveniently posted in the middle of some forum drama I skipped over). Oops.
Had I seen it, this movie wouldn't have been accepted, for reasons Moozooh already stated.
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About a year ago Dark Fulgore did a TAS of this but never submitted:
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf6_QKjM-7Y
I asked him to submit to TASvideos because I thought it was a very publishable movie but he wanted to optimize it more.
I'd really like to see a submission of this game, so good luck!
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I guess my previous topic was misunderstood, as a result we have no additional nominations for the following categories. I will leave this thread up for 7 days at which point I will make polls for each category.
Please nominate movies for the following categories:
NES TAS of the year current nominations:
1103M NES Rockman in 15:29 by Deign
GBx TAS of the year current nominations:
1096M GBA Spider-Man 3 in 15:39
Sega TAS of the year current nominations:
1188M Sega CD Sonic the Hedgehog CD in 17:27.64 by Nitsuja
SNES TAS of the year current nominations:
1139M SNES Super Metroid in 22:01 Cpadolf, hero of the day "Glitched-any%"
Innovative TAS of the year current nominations:
1188M Sega CD Sonic the Hedgehog CD in 17:27.64 by Nitsuja
Lucky TAS of the year current nominations:
1145 Genesis King's Bounty (USA/Europe) by gia & Aqfaq in 00:09.93
Funny TAS of the year current nominations:
Speedy TAS of the year current nominations:
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Glitchy TAS of 2008
Vote on the best Glitchy TAS of 2008. The nominees are listed below; click on the name to be taken to a page with the relevant movies listed.
1123 GBC Pokemon Yellow (USA/Europe) by gia in 02:06.28
1217 SNES "glitched" Contra 3: The Alien Wars (USA) by Cpadolf in 03:23.27
1139 SNES "any%, glitched" Super Metroid (JPN/USA) by Cpadolf & hero of the day in 22:01.18
1175 GB "any%, glitched" Metroid II - Return of Samus (USA) by FerretWarlord in 23:40.92
