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holy crap, you are awsome :D
Both of those will be siginificant time savers
As for the "magnet glitch", I have not been able to recreate it in any place but the one on the .fcm. and it only works on the fcm when approaching from the right.
EDIT:
just a thought. There are several places where the scrolling glitch could be done except you can't get the turtle to jump high enough. Could using raph & the up+down glitch be used to get his y pos high enough to do the glitch?
EDIT2:
probably more of a long shot, but could this be used to boost the turtles y position up enough to make it possible to initiate the scrolling glitch on 1 tile width walls (with open spaces). Probably wishful thinking, but this would allow scrolling in just about every screen.
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Zurrecco: explained in the submission text: moving down means warping off the screen faster (the game sends you down automatically)
Extra lives are tallied onto your score before warping off screen. The less lives, the shorter that section is.
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In all fairness, those brain are bad ass, when not being attacked by a TASer :P They shoot out hords of flahsing balls that follow you around and take many hits to destroy. I just happened to destroy them before they could throw very many :p
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1) I'm honored to see my name popping up on peoples list :D
2) I worry that a topic like this could go down the gutter
I won't try to order my favorite TASers but I would like to bring up Zoizite's name. His TASes have impressed me greatly and I haven't seen him mentioned yet.
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NecroVMX, I feel similarly about %100 no damage as you do about heavily glitched runs (there are exceptions). I feel they are unecessary, imperfect, and boring. Yet when I watch one, I am still entertained somewhat. It doesn't make the run completely ruined. I might give it a rating of 5 in entertainment but certainly not 1. If it is a good TAS or a good TASable game then I won't be completely disgusted by it.
I guess I am saying that even if I don't agree with the goals of a run, I can still find some entertainment value.
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It apparently isn't only the magnet that causes it. Notice the pizza on top of it. In that vid, lag causes the pizza to not spawn until you are being sucked into the magnet. It appears just as you glitch off of the screen. I think those 3 factors must be present for it to happen. Perhaps it isn't pizza specifically but any type of spawn (including weapon drops) that causes it.
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I agree with you on the luck manipulation thing. I have been generous with that label in defining my own movies in the past because I interpreted it as just any kind of luck manipulation. Rather than that it should be reserved for significant manipulation such as critical hits, drops, tetris blocks, and other significant things and not for boss patterns, enemies appearing in a particular place or other minor issues.
If someone could find a more eloquent way of saying "Skips significant portions of the main route." I would agree with that category as well. This is what I thought "ignores semi-important goals" meant originally. I think it should be reserved for things that are supposed to be manatory in normal play but are skipped by using glitches or perfect reflexes (such as the 1-item metroid run or the any% rygar run).
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Well, if judged separately, I stand by my no vote. This game is very long and often very dull.
It a "you have to have played the game to be entertained" kind of run. Unfortunately it isn't very popular. Not a good combination.
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I tried to make sure I was ahead, or atleast tied with the current times of the previous speedrun at the end of every level. I ended up beating the last boss ~ 10 seconds faster than the previous run.
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http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/2662/TMNT%20magnet%20glitch.fcm
Another glitch involving the magnets of level 4. The turtle immediately falls through the floor into the screen below. In this .fcm the screen locks up when I get to the screen below but in my first attempt I was somehow able to fall through the roof and walk around. I just wasn't able to reproduce it.
EDIT: After a thorough beating in the head, I fixed the link.
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but you'll supercede any judgment that is made that you don't agree with (example: Phil's latest SMB submission, after adelikat accepted).
I don't see this as a supceeding. I intentionally left out any mention of where the movie might be published and simply accepted. I left that up to Bisqwit (presumably the publisher in this case) to make that judgement call. Personally I was apathetic to which category it fell in.
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http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/2652/TMNT-bigshortcut%28almost%29.fcm
So close to an amazing shortcut. Using the scrolling glitch here takes me from room 02 all the way to the end of room 17 (last room before the boss). This would save me over 8000 frames! The only problem is a end up in a "hole" that I can't get out of. I doubt I can get out but if there was a way to would skip most of lv4 so it is worth checking out.
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Thanks for the comments. I knew that you would spot improvements to my run :)
Spider-Waffle wrote:
Could you get suriken for the first level boss fights? Could taking damage
in the first sewer let you kill bebop with 1 less hit?
In an ideal world I would get shurikens right away and use them for both fights but honestly I couldn't figure out how the random drops work. I would have ran basicbot in a few sections if I could have found the relevant ram address. Maybe I will try again sometime. Shurikens would reduce the bebop and rocksteady fights by 1 hit. Invulnerability time is 48 frames. So that would be a savings 96 minus the cost of manipulating shurkens.
Taking damage for the bebop fight won't help. Bebop has 72hp, don's bo hits for 15 normal and 16 when under health. Either way, it will be 5 hits.
I thought there were some places you could swung a weapon after landing to save frames when there were only 1 or 2 enemies on the screen.
The freakin bo lags so easily. Also, I tested many jumps and often couldn't get anyfurther forward progress by throwing my weapon. I didn't test thoroughly enough to tell if it were due to the type of jump or just lag from throwing the weapon but I could find any difference. Perhaps I should look into this more.
On the second floor of the second level, before the ladder, I think it's faster to jump to the platform instead of falling under it, then you can hit the top chainsaw guy with a suriken faster and also fall down sooner and throw a suriken at him while falling so you get to the next chainsaw guy sooner.
I'm pretty sure you can jump over to that platform.
For the water part you should switch to leo first and mike last, this way when mike dies after getting missiles it will switch to don without having to do it yourself.
Doh! You're right about that one. This would result in about 45 frames of improvement.
When going up or comin down next to a wall you can move over the wall a little bit when you first come to it and you'll be partly in the wall so can you be a little farther forward when you come out of it.
I couldn't get this to happen in the water section :/
For example this should be done after getting the second bomb and coming down. This same concept works on the normal levels of the game and overheard view.
At the 2nd bomb it wouldn't matter as you will hit the wall under that one, negating the savings.
When you enter the first building of level 3 I think you should kill the first enemies instead of getting hit.
This isn't to save time but to get exactly 7 health in order for the flying head to kill me. I couldn't get it down exactly in the water level because everything does 16 damage, meaning I can only have 16 when the level ends. The first enemy of this level does 9 damage which leaves me 7, the exact amount that the flying head does. It's beautiful how perfectly those numbers worked out ;) (note: The kight does 16 damage when he is in his full body, and his fire breath does 12 damage)
If you could get tripple or single suriken in the first building it would save time where hit the mech knight.
Once again, that might be wishful thinking. If I had them, It would save about 50 frames. So as long as I could manipulate them in less than that, it would save time. I guess I need to learn how the drops work.
In the next building I wonder if actually killing the fire guy (first hit use suriken) before the ladder would be faster so that you can jump before the fall to the ladder.
I tried. The invulnerability time of enemies (48 frames) prevents me from killing him without losing time. The time loss is greater than simply jumping over him.
In the 3rd building I think it would be faster to kill the second fire guy with suriken first hit instead of running into him.
Nope, I tested both ways. Taking damage was faster. Also, I need to take damage so that I can kill the next boss faster. Not getting hit here would mean taking one more hit else where (slower) or on the boss, resulting in having to hit him one more time. (Note, shurikens do 18 normal while doing 20 when under %50).
If you suriken the mech knight you could hit it sooner and not have to wait on the head as long.
I assume you mean the one during the rope section. I hit him when I do to manipulate him to be in the right place later. This section has far too many variables so I likely didn't do it optimally. But I did spend a long time on it and the run shows the best scenario of all my versions.
In room 2, at the first ladder down, if you face right when the screen scrolling down then hold left you will clear the platform below and land all the way on the bottom floor first.
Oh wow, you are right. That should save about 40-60 frames. Cool.
Also, this same concept seems to be useful in many other places. I should always face the opposite to the wall in order to be able to be inside the wall a few pixels. This could save a few frames here and there.
Then when climbing the ladder up you want to be all the way to the right on the ladder.
I am pretty sure that I am.
In room 3 you can jump up the ladder with a mid hight jump if you clip over on the edge, same concept as the jump to get missiles early.
Doh, I am aware of the trick but it didn't occur to me to use it here. Oops :(
For room 6 if you could get the health I would take the spike route.
Not sure this would be faster. Lag is also a major issue here.
Also in room 6 when you kill the boomerage guy with the downward attack while he was above you, if you start that attack in the air you can slide forward on the ground while doing it.
Not possible, you will make contact with him if you do this.
In room 8 you could the mid height jump plus clip to get onto the conveyer built that's moving right towrds the ladder quicker.
My thinking was that it didn't matter here but I forgot to consider the fact that the conveyor belt is moving to the right so I could get extra forward momentum. I suspect the extra momentum would be negated somewhat by extra lag though.
In the spikey wall room you do the middle level differently than the other two, I would think one way would be faster.
Impressive, I thought no one would notice that. ;p It was difficult to test but from what I could tell both methods were exactly the same frames.
In the last level after doing the warp glitch, on the next doorway you should have jumped before falling.
*thunk* Another oversight on my part.
Because of the way bisqwit times these this doesn't save any time but if you kill shredder while he falling he will die much faster and you see the credits sooner.
Arg, don't go and mention something like that. Now people will want me to do it that way ;p This method could mean a longer input time for a shorter avi time.
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*Pretending the existing run doesn't exist:
This run is well... boring. It has the rpg element but without the possibility of insane luck manipulation (which is at least %50 of the entertainment value of such a run). It is like legend of zelda in its "run around and collect items to get to new parts of the game" but without the insane popularity (which in my opinion is the only thing that makes zelda movies so entertaining to people).
As a result, I don't see anything that makes this run extraordinary. Voting No.
*In context of existing run:
1) The current run is very similar to this but minus the tedium of backtracking and collect extra items. The whole begining looks identical. As a result, I see no justification for having both. Multiple runs of a game are for showing off something interesting that can't be shown in just one run.
As a result, I think this run should not be published along side the current one.
2) This run could replace the current one that "breaks the site rules". But the rules were made by bisqwit. They were "broken" by bisqwit. And it is bisqwit who stands apathetic to the issue all together. As a result, I see no reason that the issue should be "fixed" by putting this run on the site instead.
The debate is settled, the "wild warp" cheat is fair game. It would have been nice to have some explanation on why this debugging code is okay and not others but alas...
Sorry for the tedious post, in short I vote No on this run in all possible scenarios.
EDIT:
Sorry to vote no on all your submissions tmont :) I hope it doesn't discourage you. Both submissions are good in technical quality.
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For the record I am voting no. This is an obvious cheat code and therefore breaks the rules of the site. Not that my voting means anything at this point, but still...
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Why can't concept demo be a good thing? "Wow you thought outside the box and did something that doesn't fit the mold (inside the box). As a reward, you get your run into the elite concept/demo section.
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While we are talking about it, Tecmo Superbowl (NES) should be in concept/demos. It doesn't complete the game (that would require playing the entire 19 game season). Instead it just demonstrate a single match.
I agree that megamanx/x2 should definatley be a concept/demo until there are more runs like it. Then perhaps we could have a bigame section.
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Sorry Spider-Waffle, but I have already submitted ;p
Everything you mentioned is done in this submission though I suspect you will find a few ideas after watcing.
Actually, I was hoping to get some feedback from you on the run before I submitted, so free to give suggestions about the submissions. I am open to the possibility of making an improved version should any discoveries be made.
I am using FCEU .16. This version is specifically what I used. That happens to be a patched version that has a macro input function.
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Glad to see this one finished and submitted. Not only is it faster but major style points. "Hmm, these refights sure are boring, how can I make them interesting? Screw it, I will just glitch right past them :P"
Yes vote of course.
