If something does not look right in a movie, check it yourself to be sure. However, Judges do not need to thoroughly in-depth test a game as if they themselves were the one trying to TAS it. If it looks good on the surface, and the movie appears to consist of superior play which outperforms casual play and any records elsewhere, it's good enough for TASVideos.
The players must have chances of getting their movie published.
Don't demand them do laboursome optimizations that can't actually be noticed under normal viewing conditions [1]. For example, if a jump performed one frame late still moves the character along its purported trajectory with no interruptions, it is a negligible flaw. If, however, a late jump bumps the character into an obstacle, thus interrupting its movement, it's an easily noticeable mistake.
[1]: Normal viewing conditions refer to real-time playback with no additional indicators to judge the player's performance; i. e., like most people watch these videos.
Notice to new players: Experienced TAS makers often possess a great observation skill for typical mistakes in TAS movies. Mistakes unnoticeable to you might still be noticed by experienced TAS players and the judges. (But of course, we don't know and see everything.)
Similar to overall sub-optimality, this is up to judge's discretion. This is why we want judges to be experienced TASers and at the same time we don't want them to demand unreasonable effort: there's has to be balance.
Make sure the movie is optimal and not sloppy wrote:
This is mostly covered by the Guidelines, but whenever you see something that looks like it has potential for improvement, either try it out yourself or ask the author to address it. Note that the run isn't required to be completely unimprovable, it just should not be sloppy. If it uses sub-optimal strategies all over the place, even if it's not obvious for an untrained eye, but which becomes clear when you actually try to improve it, then it should be rejected for sub-optimality.
Summary: sloppy play has to be visible, it has to be all over the place, and it has to be easily improvable. With this game's nature, improvement only counts when an entire track is improved.
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Lobsterzelda wrote:
Having said that, in the comments you're making to Technickle, you're looking at the situation from the perspectives of an experienced publisher for the website and a senior judge for the website, who each have over 500 player points and lots of published movies on the site. You're not looking at this from the perspective of somebody with 0 accepted movies whose been trying for a year to get a single movie accepted.
Again, don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Technickle's actions, and I understand that you're annoyed with him for wasting your time both in terms of the time it took to judge his movie and the time it took to make and upload an encode for his TAS. I'm just saying that there's 2 sides to every story, and it's important to keep that in mind whenever judging someone's actions.
I'm looking at it from both perspectives, I just needed the author to describe the reasons behind the delay so we could discuss them and explain how it actually works. We didn't just silently reject his previous runs, we provided tons of feedback describing how to get it done right. And yes, this game's nature means it's non-trivial to check how optimal a movie is, so judging it took time for a reason.
Lobsterzelda wrote:
Also, to Technickle, I have something I would like to say about this new submission.
Since there is already a published movie for this category on the website, the standard that new submissions for this category are held to is that they should include all of the time save/speed tricks that the previous TAS included, plus whatever new optimizations were found. To this end, TASVideos rules specify that if a new movie is submitted that obsoletes an old movie, it can't lose time over the original TAS for no reason in certain areas and then just be faster overall due to a few route or trick differences and get published. Rather, it should be as fast or faster throughout all the sections of the game (provided that the new route/strategies don't affect the other portions of the game in a way that slows them down), and then it should incorporate the new timesave. Otherwise, it is likely to be rejected.
I know it's tempting when you find a large timesave in a 2+ hour long TAS to just submit a new TAS with a few improvements that save a couple of minutes, and ignore the TAS being slower than the published TAS in other parts. However, if you want to be able to obsolete a published movie, you need to be able to complete the TAS faster through all sections, even if it does make the TAS more tedious to make.
And apparently that's not true :D Here's my recent judgment that showcases how this works for Vault.
feos wrote:
The part of this run that's new and saves so much time isn't too optimal, as seen in this movie that spawns the corn boss 16 frames faster due to slight movement tweaks.
However the current publication belongs to Vault, and this movie is going there too. And there is a Vault clause that allows some sub-optimality if a new skip has been discovered, because speedrun records are the main purpose of Vault:
"In rare cases, there will be a sloppier movie that is faster than a more optimized movie due to the use of a major skip discovery. In this case, the faster of the two movies is preferred."
I double-checked with admins that the clause is accurate and I understand it correctly, hence I'm relying on it here.
MESHUGGAH displayed interest in improving this submission, but I tried contacting him and couldn't.
Accepting over [2373] NES The California Raisins: The Grape Escape (USA,r2) by MESHUGGAH in 04:51.5.
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Technickle wrote:
It's been done since August 23rd 2019, but I haven't had the chance up until now to submit this notable improvement.
Why?
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So the old submission has been in the queue since August, and you decided to make this 5 days after the other one was published?
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We've had a long talk with Nach regarding tech ratings, how useless they are in my opinion, and how incredibly helpful and accurate they are in his opinion.
I think that we already know all the problems that relate to separating ratings, I mean I don't think we should completely drop one or the other, but rather combine everything into one scale. When you rate a movie on IMDB you just take everything into account and express how much you liked it, that's all. So some people may like technicality of a sub-one-second ACE movie, others may like a full run, same with optimality or anything else really. I see no problems with generalizing it.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
g = g.DuplicateFrame( 2389)
g = g.DuplicateFrame( 3390)
g = g.DuplicateFrame( 4391)
g = g.DuplicateFrame( 5392)
g = g.DuplicateFrame( 6393)
g = g.DuplicateFrame( 8396)
g = g.DuplicateFrame(10397)
g = g.DuplicateFrame(11397)
g = g.DuplicateFrame(12400)
g = g.DuplicateFrame(13401)
g = g.DuplicateFrame(14401)
g = g.DuplicateFrame(15402)
g = g.DuplicateFrame(17404)
g = g.DuplicateFrame(18405)
g = g.DuplicateFrame(19405)
g = g.DuplicateFrame(20408)
g = g.DuplicateFrame(22409)
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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All my problems were after I set it to windowed outside libTAS.
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If I launch the game from libtas without a movie, and start paused, then the game keeps working when I unpause. But when I start it with a movie, it closes after frame 1.
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Selicre, would it be feasible to have at least some version of the full encode done until December? We'll need to handle this submission until New Year.
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Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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That page simply shows whatever the site database has, and it has it because old emulators had those rates, so for their movies it's still valid. Dunno how exactly newer, more accurate emulators are handled.
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Does anyone see any visual glitches in these 2 encodes?
Link to video
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FilipeTales wrote:
feos wrote:
How about you read my post.
I read your post right now but all the improvements that all people made, it made me afraid of my TAS being rejected.
It started when ThunderAxe31 saved 119 frames and my first TAS got rejected later on he posted his improved TAS but without me being not co-author so read a quote.
how the person who makes the final improvement makes a new submission with all participants as co-authors.
is it was true or not?
Framewar means several people compete in improving the movie further and further, not just a single basic improvement that only proves that the original run was sloppy.
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How about you read my post.
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That's not how we handle framewars. All participants have contributed to making the movie shorter, so when no one can improve it anymore, the person who makes the final improvement makes a new submission with all participants as co-authors.
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N64 framerate is 60000/1001.
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Frame war!
I'm not continuing though since I don't enjoy the game at all.
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We need "full installation steps" for dependencies to prevent any future confusion with replaying the movie. What command did you use to install those libs?
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Would you mind turning this into some kind of a picture? This game is apparently so complicated that it'd be really hard to comprehend or explain to others with just pure text.
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Please list the exact steps that are needed to make this game run in libTAS (aside from OS installation itself).
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The only thing I remember is that NTSC palette doesn't look so green and dirty when you watch a real console on a TV: it's warmer and nicer, dunno how it works. Then of course NTSC means "never the same color", so it's impossible to establish one true most accurate palette for all.
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[13:12:54] <feos> zeromus: what was the background behind fceux palette again? http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21392
[20:27:42] <zeromus> feos, there is no background behind fceux palette. it was chosen a long time ago due to someone's feelings. dont debate with people about palettes. you can choose whatever palette you want in every nes emulator.
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Absolutely!
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TheProJamer wrote:
While Match-Up is admittedly not a particularly entertaining game mode to see TASed on its own, and I imagine would've been unlikely to get accepted anyway, this is a gamemode rather than a minigame like the previous submission. Are you just trying to say that only an "All Pair Games" category or something similar would be acceptable on TASVideos, or has there been a misunderstanding?
BTW what exactly makes it a mode and not a minigame?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
