Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1225)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11705
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
Nach wrote:
I should be the sole person receiving any fallout for the judgment on this run.
OK.
I don't see opinions of the audience being addressed in the judgment at all, despite of this being a clear Moons case. "A large chunk of people will not be happy" doesn't count, it explains nothing.
Also half of the thread was posts blaming the rules for being unclear and outdated, this hasn't been addressed either. Are the rules perfectly clear and fine?
About asking other judges. Their opinions seem to have changed after being presented the info about marginal differences in how long playable and non-playable scenes take, and probably some other facts. I know the actual gameplay differences (which is the only thing that matters when we compare optimization attempts), and after seeing this comparison of marginal timing differences regardless of what the actual gameplay is, I state how much my opinion have changed: it didn't. And my opinion is consistent with all I've been saying in this thread:
This judgment is absurd.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1225)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11705
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
I'd say it's a justified modification (for the science) if it can't really be restrained otherwise. I still hope it can be.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1225)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11705
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
Radiant wrote:
other people feel that the difference between NTSC and PAL is comparable to the difference between an English and a Spanish release of the same ROM. The former get separate branches, the latter count as a single obsoletion chain. That's all there is to it.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1225)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11705
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
I figure no one actually read the thread I linked?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1225)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11705
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
dwangoAC wrote:
disc-based console run
There's been some progress with this idea recently.
Post #451802 and most of that thread.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1225)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11705
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
Before I read the entire post, I'll just quickly say that changing the rules about PAL is my demand too, and I mentioned Moons exactly because I say PAL TASes should work as branches in Moons.
I remember just earlier this year a certain valued contributor approached some of the staff members with a question on whether a PAL TAS of a certain valued game that had the potential of being faster than the current NTSC TAS by tens of seconds could be considered for publishing if the feedback was good. He received a very firm "no" from at least two of them, which doesn't mesh very well with the procedure you suggest. I didn't care much about what happened to that run idea—I'm not a big fan of some of the tricks planned for use in it—but I felt bad for the player getting shot down using the same vague rule as a reference that could very well end up ignored in case with this submission.
Exactly. I suggested him to make a thread calling for rule clarification, but he never did. Now we will have to clarify the rules, thanks to this submission. "Absolutely clearly no, because of this 15yo* rule no one can explain" is an extremely weak point for a judge to make.
*Found it. Just 5 years old. Yet it just says "generally not preferred", it became "generally not allowed" 3 years later. It's interesting how the rule was becoming stricter and stricter by mere clarification.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1225)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11705
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
moozooh, you're missing how the Moons tier works. We don't have to fully document every requirement attempting to make the rule perfectly objective. It's not possible. The way to resolve this is to rely on the audience opinion as one of the factors.
If the majority of the viewers feel some number of branches has too many similarities, they can be combined, if a solid explanation can be found, that would feel right to the majority of the viewers and to the judges.
Sometimes, when there's still ambiguity after such evaluation, staff members can have a dedicated talk about it, which would involve experience of each of them, so that can become the basis for a decision if all other factors betray us.
This approach is called case-by-case basis.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1225)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11705
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
14:29 muggphone1 Guys
14:30 muggphone1 I missed my bus because the driver drove off 2 min too early
14:30 muggphone1 Now have to wait 30 min next bus. Entertain me?
14:34 TASVideoAgent New submission! Go and see #5641: Hutchinson's GB Dr.Franken in 13:03.27 at http://tasvideos.org/5641S.html
14:34 TASVideoAgent сменил тему комнаты на: Official IRC channel of TASVideos.org | Latest publication: [3502] GB Mega Man: Dr. Wily's Revenge (JPN) by Mothrayas & Tremane in 16:56.52 >> http://tasvideos.org/3502M.html | Latest submission: http://tasvideos.org/5641S.html
14:34 TASVideoAgent New topic by TASVideoAgent (WorkB: #5641: Hutchinson's GB Dr.Franken in 13:03.27): http://tasvideos.org/forum/t/19486 [a:1]
14:35 muggphone1 Ok guys.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1225)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11705
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
One problem with ACE is that we can't continue outdoing ourselves technically, because, as has been noted lately, there are basically only 2 ways to go ACE:
- Streaming AV of arbitrary relevance and with little to no limits
- Hacking the game and playing its improved version
Both have been done live, the former doesn't even suggest any room for improvements to make it more entertaining anymore. The latter might have some potential, but still needs tons of dedication.
ACE means no limit to me. And when there's no limit, it's hard to appreciate the work, because it gets hard to impress. To be impressed, the viewer should understand the limitations and then understand how they are overcome, in a creative and unique way.
Boulder race was a great example of combining TAS, real-time play, novelty, and actual human emotions and entertainment. Dunno if something like this can be invented again, so I'd vote for some non-ACE glitchfest, as broken as [1955] SNES Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 "playaround" by SDR, Thevlackdemonn2294 & Dark_Noob in 30:28.38.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1225)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11705
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
I only mentioned that as our general judging policy, and to address the idea of considering different region versions different games.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1225)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11705
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
We don't want all PAL versions to be acceptable alongside NTSC versions. If you consider different region versions different games globally, you can't limit the acceptability of PAL (or other regions). We want the movie base that looks as good as we can achieve, quality, not quantity. But we don't want to limit the quantity if quality is high enough.
To me, the only way to sanely change the PAL rule is to allow it on the case-by-case basis. Sometimes it will obsolete NTSC, sometimes it will be a new branch, sometimes it will be rejected. Various factors should be weighed in: internal gameplay differences, difference in the TAS content, entertainment value, technical value, audience opinion, maybe some more.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1225)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11705
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
If we consider them different games, that would have to remove the limit entirely. We don't want this thing to lose limits. We want it to improve the movie base.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1225)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11705
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
Alyosha wrote:
maybe except for Battletoads, but even that is more technically interesting then really entertaining
I'm not making this up, look at the entertainment rating, and at the amount of the raters. I can talk about how good that movie is for hours, but I'd prefer facts to speak instead.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1225)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11705
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
Spikestuff wrote:
[1546] NES Gimmick! "100%" by Aglar & Hotarubi in 07:44.45
I need to point out one major thing that I have against this TAS.
It needs to be updated before we actually consider it due to the glitches and newer tech that was found for it last year (or was it a year before).
Agreed. But even then, a human performs probably all the same tricks live, so it's not that unique anymore.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1225)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11705
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
dwangoAC wrote:
Can you, yes you dear reader, think of a run that would be a good fit based on past content already shown at GDQ events and based on length and entertainment? Again, I'm expecting we will not be doing console verification but we will attempt to do so wherever possible
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1225)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11705
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
As it says, savestates have changed. Remove the greenzone from the tasproj and try again.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1225)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11705
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
So what's your plan on this, Mitjitsu?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1225)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11705
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
This run is not a major skip thingy? What's basically going on here? Why is it so absurdly short?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1225)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11705
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
You don't need to delete it, it's how movies work.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
