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Radiant wrote:
But feos, that's precisely my point: should hacks be allowed in the playground if "the hack and the run are great", or should ALL hacks be allowed in the playground?
I do not think the site has been too strict in 2020-2021 about which romhacks were allowed.
I said it should just be properly published, to Moons, if the hack and the run are great. There's no need to keep those in Playground.
I personally don't see a big problem in allowing all hacks to Playground as long as the movie is good, but I also think we should just let the game community decide which hacks to allow, because it will be subjective anyway if there is a borderline, so let's rely on subjectivity of people who care.
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Let's get back to SM64 shall we? I started thinking about how we would branch them so 16-star route makes the most sense, and I found myself wondering why we even mention stars in branches that don't aim to maximize them.
https://tasvideos.org/Games/PublicationHistory/246
"All 120 stars" is clear in that its goal is getting all stars, and the number is iconic.
What about "70 stars, no BLJ"? Can you get less stars without BLJ?
What about "1/0 star" and "1 key"? It looks like the amount of stars and keys obtained is just a consequence of whatever route appears to be the absolute fastest. It would probably make sense to spell out the collected stars/keys if we had those as separate branches, or if it was an in-game option to collect exactly that many. But here... it looks like it's just baseline branch?
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Radiant wrote:
Well, suppose I'm interested in NES Legend of Zelda; then it's likely I'm also interested in good romhacks of TLOZ. I'd expect good romhacks to be visible or linked from the TLOZ main page (or maybe from a "category:TLOZ" superpage), but this doesn't work if there's a ton of bad romhacks also linked.
For example, it's already the case that if I search the site for "Super Mario", the result is a list of ten romhacks but none of the SMB/SMW games are listed. So I'd say it's a valid concern that realistically, allowing any and all romhacks in playground will make it hard for people to find what they're actually looking for.
Good rom hacks should just get properly published imo. If we're too strict, we should be less strict as long as the hack and the run are great.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Fixed. The new site tells exactly where the error is, I love it!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Radiant wrote:
I don't want the playground to become unusable because of a flood of runs on poor quality romhacks, and so I believe that "no romhacks except in moons/stars" is a hard rule worth sticking to.
It's meant to be a part of game based navigation. Why would it become unusable? We'd just link hacks of a game as separate game pages.
DrD2k9 wrote:
I guess i just misunderstood how things would be curated in the Playground. If anyone can set a submission status to be a Playground run, how is the list curated?
Without some means of "rejecting" or removing runs that shouldn't be present, the list has no effective limits.
Post-moderation, like on speedrun.com. TASers of a game could get some kind of "game mod" priv so they could reject a submission from playground if it breaks playground rules. Judges too obviously.
CoolHandMike wrote:
As in how would I submit this? Instead of "Submit a Movie" would that maybe be split to a "Submit for Publication" and a "Submit to Playground" button? Then essentially the same flow as a normal submission?
2 buttons would probably be ideal. If you submit for pub, it's judged as usual, and can be sent to playground if it breaks regular movie rules but not playground rules. If you submit to playground, it's post-moderated.
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DrD2k9 wrote:
I feel we need to consider the concept of unpublication in regards to the Playground.
Currently, we don't unpublish any currently published runs. Instead we try (or hope) to obsolete them with a new run that corrects the reason that a run was erroneously published to begin with.
Should we consider having the ability to outright unpublish/delete runs from the Playground if a situation arises where something shouldn't have been allowed in there to begin with? If so, would this be part of the community curation our would it need to be main site staff?
Hopefully there's never a situation where something would need removed, but it's worth considering--just in case.
Did you read the OP? Playground is not a publication class, it's a submission status.
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Memory wrote:
A better way to handle it altogether would be to group identical releases of a game together when we switch to game based navigation.
This would solve my issues without introducing new problems.
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Radiant wrote:
feos wrote:
[*]Must break some Wiki: MovieRules (otherwise it just gets published)
This is a tricky one. Is it valid for the Playground to use a non-approved emulator, or a bad dump of a ROM, or any arbitrary ROMhack? What about Chess runs? Heck, what about submitting a movie on someone else's behalv (with proper accreditation) but without permission of the author?
As I mentioned above, we want authorship to be managed properly so nobody if affected in a bad way. About the rest, I don't see why not.
Radiant wrote:
Since "must reproduce" and "must have a goal" and "do not plagiarize" are also Movie Rules, it seems to me that Playground needs a division between "hard movie rules" that you cannot break, and "soft movie rules" that can be broken for the playground.
This is about wording. We'd say "here's a list of hard rules, but other movie rules can be broken in this section of the site".
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run on a modified version of Dolphin Lua Core + TASStudio, with no specific emulator settings. The modified version of the Dolphin I use is required to run the DTM file without breaking the TAS file. You can download here: https://www.dropbox.com/home?preview=N100F+Hundo+TAS+Files.zip (Please DM me email address to access download)
I don't agree with these sync requirements. We don't want to rely on casual patches to Dolphin that we don't even know what code they change and how, because they may disappear after a while and the run would be impossible to sync (and we can't verify legitimacy of the patch itself). Dolphin Lua Core seems popular and reliable enough, so if they merged this patch I'd have no issue with accepting a movie that relies on it (provided it meets Wiki: MovieRules).
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So no description of what it changes (and why) either?
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The flagpole in the water level is in a different place.
The -2 level ends differently.
The -3 level is different.
There's no link to a patch.
There's no explanation how exactly to get the same results, only a mention of "a level editor".
This submission is not reproducible so far.
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jlun2 wrote:
Technically all my uploads have a goal. To either showcase that 1 trick that looked interesting, or for me to backup my progress in case my computer dies (ie. it reaches this arbitrary point in the game, fastest time, because I was tired and had to go to bed so I saved).
"Posting the WIP as a backup" is not an in-game goal. I guess we should add the "in-game" part.
jlun2 wrote:
Must break some Wiki: MovieRules (otherwise it just gets published)
I know this might sound silly, but that should probably be elaborated. I really hope there won't be some weird drama down the line where someone argues passionately that copying someone elses run should be accepted because it broke a rule on proper attribution or someone making/editing a game so that it immediately ends just to get a WR of it. It might sound "obvious", but the past several years made me realize it really isn't.
Good catch! Authorship is one of the rules we don't want to be violated. If you've edited someone else's work, you should put the original author first, unless the part you've borrowed was relatively small.
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Is there any kind of source/origin of this hack in the form of a patch file?
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Is there any kind of description of this hack and source/origin in the form of a patch file?
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The plan is moving away from giant lists of all movies per platform, to game based navigation. Such a list is hard to comprehend, you have to scroll though a ton of the stuff you don't need. So "too many movies are there for a given platform" is not an argument. If the platform had that many, they should be cataloged under it.
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Mizumaririn wrote:
I am concerned about would it be partly judged for leniency. Where it hasn't reached the exciting part, or long unentertaining setup just to setup something cool. Imagine smb3 without whistles. (ignoring DCPM workaround) you have to sit through 6 worlds without new content just to see cool stuff. Why should the other parts affect the viewing experience of the real playground - the main focus the author wants to show off?
I don't understand what you're asking.
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FitterSpace wrote:
I think as long as it plays better than you would expect a speedrunner to play in real time, it should be okay.
This could be hard to figure out. For acceptance for publication, we consider the movie rejectably sloppy if in a lot of places we can easily save a lot of time. For Playground, I'm thinking of "there should be no obviously visible sloppy play", and as long as it looks clean, it's fine.
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feos wrote:
Must be decently executed
How should we define this? I don't mind having movies of different optimization levels, but when do we reject for being overly sloppy?
Also do we want to account of lack of current completed movies of a certain goal? Like sometimes it's an argument for submitting a suboptimal run (better than nothing), and it feels like this may make sense in Playground. For example if there's an optimality bar (granted it's lower than for pubs), being the first to submit a new goal should probably allow even sloppier play? Not sure about this one.
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Fortranm wrote:
I would say the most important reason is that a significant number of games have versions on both systems that are supposedly identical and this makes them overlap a lot.
But why is it a problem (barring the unimplemented feature of cross-platfrom obsoletion)?
The issue I'm seeing is we can't create the same game entry that would cover several platforms, which may be desired if the versions for different platforms are indeed the same.
But DOS feels like it should belong to the IBM PC section too, because separating PC into modern and retro would be subjective.
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This happens because the game internally has non-4:3 resolution, but mame and hawk correct the aspect, which doesn't happen when dumping video/screenshots. https://tasvideos.org/Bizhawk/FAQ#RecordingAVideo
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Darkman425 wrote:
EDIT: I forgot to mention that the game does have resolution changes and the encode has the resolution stretched more horizontally than it's supposed to, though I probably could've avoided that by forcing the correct screen resolution in the encoding settings.
Check how it appears if you make screenshots of those resolutions in mame itself.
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We're calling it Playground, not Playaround.
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This post is very important.
We seem to have agreed on the implementation and the main purpose of this entity. But we need to have an agreement on the fundamental rules we want for it. It's clear that we want as few rules as possible, but those that should be there should be as fundamental as possible. For something that's meant to grant a ton of freedom, it's important that the community as a whole is on the same page.
A movie that goes to Playground:
Must break some Wiki: MovieRules (otherwise it just gets published)
Must be reproducible
Must be decently executed
Must have a goal
Opinions, criticisms, additions?
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Fortranm wrote:
The reasons should be self-explanatory so I'll skip this part :D
And I'll skip the part where I ponder them. Let's just operate on a whim.
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ninespaces wrote:
No. It seemed that the amount of time to get them and set them up probably wasn't worth it, compared to just slashing through everything. That said -- I put this together fairly quickly, so I won't be surprised if I'm totally wrong!
The last 2 bosses take so long that I was curious if some spells/skills could help. I see some skills are given to you by the game, are they of any help anywhere? The guide says they are given randomly, so probably makes sense to check if it's feasible to manipulate them. Of course if this would imply rerouting the whole thing, we wouldn't demand it right away, but sounds worth checking for a potential improvement. Still the last 2 bosses look really annoying :D
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