TASVideos

Posted: 6/2/2020 4:34 PM

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feos

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I don't know the game at all, but here's what we want for full completion: http://tasvideos.org/MovieRules.html#FullCompletionRules

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 6/1/2020 5:48 PM

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feos

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DrD2k9 wrote:

1) What qualifies as significantly different game-play?

The difference that would lead to different branches for moons, or to having 2 game versions published side by side, or to having 2 game modes as branches in vault.

DrD2k9 wrote:

2) Is this even definable in a way that would cover the majority of situations?

You can't guess or predict in advance, every game is different.

DrD2k9 wrote:

3) Are we more concerned about the appearance of different game-play or are we more concerned about actually different game-play from a mechanics perspective? (or some other differentiation).

Whatever is covered by this definition: http://tasvideos.org/Glossary.html#GamePlayGameplay

DrD2k9 wrote:

4) If this a problem where we can't establish a more clearly defined/worded rule that would cover most situations, should we require a multiple judge consensus on whether a particular situation is applicable to the rule? (This may already be a common practice, at least as it seems to have been demonstrated with the 1-On-1 situation.)

It's not "oh no, we have no idea how to apply this, let's require a month of brainstorming for every occurrence". It's a step forward in the boiling-down process. For sports games, it now resulted in at least one idea of what may be sufficiently different in terms of that rule: the rules and mechanics of the simulated game. Only by trying to apply an existing rule you can know if it fits reality. If it doesn't, we just apply my signature and see if we need tweaks.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 6/1/2020 7:16 AM

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feos

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Does my judgement text clarify anything regarding the rule?

#6703: Spikestuff's PSX Simple 1500 Series Vol.30: The Basket ~1 on 1 Plus~ in 04:15.77 wrote:

After a lot more discussion, private and public, it looks like my take on how similar these two games are wasn't shared by other judges, nor have my arguments convinced them. It was important in this case, because these games look at the very least borderline similar to me, so I needed more educated opinions. The main argument is that the rules of the games are rather different. Not as different as "one has fighting and it's heavily used, while the other one doesn't"; mostly in how they tweak the basketball rules. Since the sports are played by different rules, and in-game controls are also different, they are most logically not the same game. Which means both this game and 1 on 1 can be published in Vault separately.

I don't know if re-skin was ever the main argument, pro or con, and I don't think we should invent a list of strict definitions, because it will mean we'll be adding more and more as new situations appear. Though if you guys have any other insights on how to make sure they are different enough, feel free to post. Difference in game rules is not always enough either, because it can vary.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/31/2020 2:59 PM

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feos

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<adelikat> I need to be involved, I have the entire history of lua usage in my head, fortunately/unfortunately <adelikat> I can tell you what peopel are going to get tripped up on, or what's used by a bajillion scripts <adelikat> by entire history, I mean history that pre-dates bizhawk <adelikat> the first lua script in a rerecording emulator was snes9x1.43 in 2008 or so <adelikat> then gens-rr got it, then fceux, which I worked a lot on <adelikat> some of the fceux scripts people wrote blew my mind, it was a proud moment to work on an api that lead to such amazing scripts I would have never imagined <adelikat> then someone asked how to hook lua up to some usb sex toys, and I quit being curious what scripts were used for <YoshiRulz> wow <YoshiRulz> Is that why everyone wants rumble support? <adelikat> not going to ask.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/30/2020 6:44 AM

Post subject: yes it isn't

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feos

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What are the savings against your current movie, by both frame lengths of the races and their IGT? Why did race 1 get slower? Also your formatting broke.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/29/2020 10:10 AM

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feos

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I tried this game and I completely disagree with your goals. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/63668734223205509

----------------------------------------
|   |      feos       |      link      |
----------------------------------------
|   | frames |  igt   | frames |  igt  |
----------------------------------------
| 1 |  442   | 09.46  |  519   | 10.60 |
| 2 |  532   | 10.84  |  601   | 11.77 |
| 3 |  543   | 10.90  |  599   | 11.68 |
----------------------------------------

The table only compares the hurdles, because dash is completely trivial. It counts from timer start to timer stop (for the winner). My movie also reaches the 4th dash 10 frames sooner than yours, but I don't think it's relevant. What's relevant is that making sloppy hurdles as a goal is extremely arbitrary. It's like playing Sonic in real time without rerecords and then reaching the level end at a point where it gives you the lowest score, so the next level starts sooner. It's not like there's nothing to optimize in this game. Reaching the finish line ASAP is really hard due to unpredictable nature of jumps in this game. So it's a real challenge and it involves serious TASing. Hitting every hurdle and wasting time just because the opponent is still running is not a speedrun goal. It's technically meaningless, and also not entertaining, because it's visibly sloppy. The amount of time I was able to save even in your first level, which you said you've optimized, shows that even by the stated goals this run is suboptimal. And after having tested this game myself, I'm convinced that aiming for overall movie time with this game doesn't lead to a meaningful speedrun record either. Because it's borderline trivial. I tried to figure out how the timer works, but it's kinda complicated. I still think in-game time as a primary goal makes perfect sense (even if you manipulate it a little bit?). But ideally, one would optimize for race duration in frames, which is what we consider actual gameplay in this game, and it's what we always compare when deciding on obsoletions. This run will have to be rejected.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/28/2020 9:33 AM

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feos

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feos wrote:

I can review those 2 movies closely, comparing every round by speed. The only difference the author mentioned explicitly was lag, and both are in Vault, so we'll see if there's actually any difference in gameplay. Meanwhile I can reject this run for sub-optimality and set the other one to Delayed until the comparison is done.

Obsoleted.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/28/2020 8:57 AM

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feos

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Sounds like bubbles are full-completion kinda items, and stars are just for score, like coins in Mario. You can still do "all bubbles, max stars", but that requires Moons feedback.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/25/2020 9:22 PM

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feos

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Added ram search, test! The OP link has changed.

phoenix1291 wrote:

Is it normal that the cfg files for each launched game are saved in the root of the MameHawk folder? Wouldn't it be easier to store them in a folder specific to MameHawk?

Try the new build.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/23/2020 8:20 PM

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feos

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Doesn't sync for me on 1.11.8, 1.11.8.1, 1.11.8.2, 1.12.0, 1.13.2, with 640x480, glide64mk2, 100% speed.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/23/2020 3:10 PM

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feos

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Good point. If we consider general notes on versions, this version wins indeed: - it's the original version - it's much more popular (I couldn't even find GameFAQs or MobyGames entries for the PS port) - has no loading times Obsoleting...

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/23/2020 10:58 AM

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feos

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I compared the 2 movies fight-by-fight and overall. Most fights last slightly longer in this version, by real-time. Gameplay looks very similar indeed, though in this run it's mostly 1 or 2 attacks, and the PSX run has more "variety". Probably that variety is due to worse manipulation. I made gameplay-only clips for each fight: https://yadi.sk/d/lozYC7RXK0Jh2Q https://yadi.sk/d/w_yN5bMzQnOhCw Not sure what to do with these 2 runs, aside from setting an "official preference" on this version, since it has no loading times?

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/22/2020 7:45 PM

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feos

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I doubt dramatic effect will make this movie more entertaining.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/22/2020 11:44 AM

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feos

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Much better indeed, voting yes.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/22/2020 5:43 AM

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feos

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It was much cooler than I expected. Not mind-blowing, but still rather nice. Especially loved the OOB heart. Voting Yes.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/22/2020 4:53 AM

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feos

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Fixed the range problem for 512kb. Update.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/22/2020 4:50 AM

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feos

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IGT isn't for entertainment but to take things like score tally (or waiting for the opponent in your case) out of the equation. If the visible IGT isn't accurate, we can use a memory address like in Sonic. Waiting during gameplay shouldn't be involved in a speedrun, and for all the time that one could spend just waiting, we prefer it to be minimized where possible. If Sonic was optimized for real-time, then you'd arrive to the end of the level and just wait for optimal moment to minimize the score tally. That removes the spirit of competition and meaning of gameplay optimization.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/20/2020 8:09 PM

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feos

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Any progress?

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/20/2020 7:56 PM

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feos

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Any progress with this?

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/20/2020 6:13 PM

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feos

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TASVideoAgent wrote:

the hurdles in 110M hurdles don't behave consistenly for each race. I did try to optimize the handling of hurdles for the first race, but it doesn't matter since you have to wait for the opponent to finish anyway.

Why not aim for in-game time?

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/20/2020 5:40 PM

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feos

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I get this in 2.4.1 and 2.4.2 (hashes match):

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/20/2020 3:04 PM

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feos

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Looks like my logic was "4.9 vaultable" is not too different from "6.2 moons-only" to remain separated. Also not sure if it was already 4.9 back then.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/20/2020 2:55 PM

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feos

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I have no idea why I set obsoletion... almost 6 years after they were published. 2335M looks like it's just a small addition to 100%, but in any case I'm completely clueless.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/19/2020 5:52 PM

Post subject: @jlun2

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feos

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It syncs indeed, but now I have further questions. Levels 1 and 3, as well as the last boss seem to be slower in this submission. Why? I think I calculated it correctly.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

Posted: 5/19/2020 4:04 PM
(Edited: 5/19/2020 4:10 PM)

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feos

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These look suspicious indeed: http://tasvideos.org/Movies-C3030N-C3035N-Vault.html Precedents are explicitly worded if they happen, and even then we still review if they work in a new situation too. Either the case may be slightly different, or some policy may have changed, so relying on past decisions that don't line up with normal rules requires caution. If it's not explicit, it's likely just an error.

Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.

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