Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11294
Location: RU
That formula is not present on that page, at least not with your wording.
Definitions of our content that are present on the page:
"tool-assisted superplay (TAS) videos, which are gameplay demonstrations"
"tool-assisted speedruns and superhuman play"
Whether or not this movie fits those depends on how exactly we interpret their parts.
This movie is clearly a tool-assisted speedrun. It's also clearly a demonstration. I would call it "play" because you play a game when you send it your inputs and it reacts, that's the only definition that I find objective and reliable. It's clearly superhuman because you can in no way replicate it without tools. Superplay is something that is "cooler" than regular play, so it's a synonym of superhuman play to me. What's left is the term "gameplay". But first, let's look at TASVideos' mission again and see if this movie still stands.
No.
Yes.
Yes.
No.
Yes.
Yes. (See how it addresses "looks like a password".)
[Skipping the part about quality because it depends on personal take]
No.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Overall this movie seems to fit almost perfectly. Even then, I think that page is meant to state what kind of content we want and what kind of content we don't want, but it can't predict indefinitely far future in details, yet it also has to be generic enough to cover all known types of content we're providing. A movie like this one was most likely never anticipated, so it's reasonable not to demand absolute perfection from that page's wording. And the spirit seems to fit.
Now let's get to your definition of proper gameplay. I'm not quoting parts where you say that this movie doesn't have it, because that depends on the definition anyway, and you explained well enough why your definition of gameplay isn't present.
There is a problem with this notion. Of course this movie can be tweaked to start from such a point. But the key is that none of regular gameplay is required for this technique to work, at all. It doesn't matter at which point you trigger this glitch. It won't involve any character movements, none of "traditional gameplay" code has to be executed. Gameplay is fundamentally and wholly irrelevant to this movie.
Now if we try to force it to have gameplay, more problems appear. The movie doesn't become more impressive. It doesn't get harder to reproduce in real time. It doesn't get harder to make. It doesn't get more entertaining. But it does become sub-optimal! And even if ending point can be vague (which is why we compare game's overall behavior), starting point, in addition to being a pointless restriction, becomes vague too. For example, how would this requirement impact movies that don't have to end before regular gameplay is started? Can we still optimize menuing? Can we glitch menuing to happen faster, or to skip it altogether? Can we use menuing to trigger in-game glitches? Why?
If the requirement is limited to movies that end before "regular gameplay" starts, aside from not making it any better, this would look like a unique restriction that doesn't relate to any other content or TASing spirit. And the TASig spirit has always been "use available input ports for all possible input combinations trying to beat the game fast, and see what happens". In that, this movie is similar to [2047] SNES Chrono Trigger "save glitch" by turska & inichi in 03:28.06 for example. Entertainment rating is 3.6, tech rating is 8.7. People do appreciate crazy glitching and breaking bad, even if it's boring as hell.
We also have a rule about initial RAM state. Its premise is that as long as some startup RAM state is verified as possible on console, it's allowed. This is clearly a non-gameplay thing, and it can dramatically affect whatever ends up being played in a TAS, be it "regular gameplay" or something else. Even though using this technique may introduce unequal conditions for the competition, and even though it's actually really hard to verify, it is generally allowed to influence how the game behaves, regardless of what is called "gameplay". If we force your restriction, this rule loses its meaning.
We don't have to reverse-engineer the whole game to tell that functions used in this movie to trigger the ending do not involve passwords or other in-game codes. We just read the tracelog and compare it to what this movie is claimed to be doing, that's all.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11294
Location: RU
Gameplay isn't bad, but those endless interruptions become incredibly annoying, because of how short the levels are, and because the interruptions are all the same, and they are kinda long. Voted No.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11294
Location: RU
Yes the question is only about the movie itself.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11294
Location: RU
Highest rated Addams Family movie, but constant high speed makes it a bit monotonous for me. Yet I know it's a good movie in itself. Any more opinions?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11294
Location: RU
One of these?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11294
Location: RU
Yeah I don't expect this goal to count as full completion, because for that one has to be sure that it's actually full and can't be fuller.
It's how it works: we assess entertainment value of game+movie. Sometimes a game can't be made more entertaining, and then the movie can't reach Moons.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11294
Location: RU
Welcome our new judge Maru!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11294
Location: RU
Guys please post feedback and vote for this movie. Is it entertaining to watch several loops of this game with slightly increasing pace, with this kind of music and visuals, for 20 minutes?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11294
Location: RU
Maybe the decision itself feels cheap, but we would only reject such a movie if the overall audience feedback is negative because of switching to easier difficulty. If it doesn't look particularly and obviously different, just a little worse, it wouldn't lead to rejection.
The guidelines you quoted here disagree with the notion that technical qualities are move important. In fact, those aren't even mentioned among the factors! What is mentioned is more content, more entertainment, and looking more interesting.
In general, it shouldn't be impossible to compare 2 submissions done on different difficulties: in similar situations the "harder" submission shouldn't be slower, and in unique situations it shouldn't be slow.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11294
Location: RU
Sounds like introducing dependency on verification movies. Also reminds me of game installation steps and preparations, except it's a system where you're not meant to install games like you are on PC. But at the same time, it's obviously different from installation steps because it's doing weird manipulations to the console timer.
The main problem here is that hard reset is not implemented. If it was, no secondary movies would be needed. Alternatively, setting movie startup time needs to be supported. The multi-movie approach just works around implementation problems with some very questionable techniques. I don't think it's acceptable for publication.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11294
Location: RU
<Masterjun> TASVideos: How to push people who push video games to the limit to the limit
<Mothrayas> "here on TASVideos, we push people to the limit to push games to the limit and then they push ourselves to the limit"
-*- Masterjun is all out of limit
<Mothrayas> what you must do is be cloud
<Mothrayas> after all, the sky is the limit
<Masterjun> yeah I'm gonna push this video game to the sky when I'm finally done
<Masterjun> then I let gravity do its thing
<Masterjun> hmm, considering I'm reaching the limit before the game does, I'm actually pulling it to the limit!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11294
Location: RU
It should be covered by the paragraph about mediums here:
http://tasvideos.org/MovieRules.html#RomImageMustBeGood
But if the original image can't even be run on actual C64, we should prefer an image that can be. In a situation when neither format is authentic, conversion from emulator-only to C64-usable looks acceptable.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11294
Location: RU
The general answer is yes: if there's no known way to improve the time anymore, but entertainment gets significantly improved, such a run can be accepted, as discussed in the SMB topic.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11294
Location: RU
And if you just run right from here (or shoot portals to the right) you will reach the end later than in the movie?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11294
Location: RU
Why can't you jump up right away here?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11294
Location: RU
It would have looked much better if the characters moved asynchronously like in the current Genesis movie and the SNES version publication. Gens has the Multitrack feature that allows to record each player input separately, but I suggested bizhawk and tastudio to Juarez where it's super easy to control each player individually with all the needed precision, but for whatever reason it wasn't used. As a result it looked cheaper than those 2 other runs. Voting Meh.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11294
Location: RU
If there's actually more variety in boss fights, not simply "more of the same", and if less player health means more dodging (since there's no damage boosts here), hardest difficulty has value. But the game is boring either way, so for me personally difficulty changes nothing.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11294
Location: RU
I'm also prepared for tons of downvotes for including that boss fight. Yep, I've seen some things over the years, I won't be surprised at all. But at least the goal of "all bosses" would be solid.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11294
Location: RU
And if you just listen to your heart and skip that glitched boss fight, labeling the movie with something fitting, there's a high chance it gets downvoted for skipping the boss fight. Tough situation. But we've seen tougher! :D
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11294
Location: RU
Sounds like Alucard is the only character able to provide for true full completion then. But there's already such a movie on PSX. For the sake of diversity "Maria, all bosses" should be fine, just not marked as full completion. And yeah so far people seem to prefer including that extra boss.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11294
Location: RU
The first ice level got old after a few seconds, but all the rest was really cool. Voted yes, quality hack and nice TAS!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11294
Location: RU
It works! Thanks for all the help!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11294
Location: RU
This kind of "run right for justice" games gets old after a few minutes, so it was really hard to keep watching the same thing after 1/2 of the movie. And after having watched that, there's nothing new in the second half either, aside from falling for a while and then an epileptic blinking screen. Voting No.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.