Submission Text Full Submission Page Publication Page

FINAL INPUT FRAME: 1,958

GAME OBJECTIVES:

  • fly through 10 barns (easiest difficulty)
  • dodge birds and windmills

EMULATOR USED:

  • bizhawk 1.11.9.1

MOVIE OBJECTIVES:

  • fast

FLIGHT:

  • ascending causes speed decrease
  • descending causes speed increase

CAN THIS TAS BE IMPROVED?:

  • THIS IS THE END OF BARNSTORMING AS WE KNOW IT

THINGS YOU MIGHT WANT TO KNOW?:

  • i lied.. hero wasn't my first completed tas.. this was
feos: This game looks really simplistic, and when you're watching a speedrun, it looks like a complete auto-scroller that's too trivial to TAS. But once you actually touch it, it starts getting annoyingly odd due to its mechanics, where your height affects your speed, and the obstacles affect your height.
And it's true that in-game time for this game is more sound as a goal, because it accurately tells how fast you were going, how well you optimized your speed, and displays that as a clear reference.
Yet it's still a basic A2600 game with not much to look at, considering the above note on how it looks to a layperson, accepting to Vault.
Fog: Processing.

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Posted: 2/3/2017 7:17 AM
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TASVideoAgent
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This topic is for the purpose of discussing #5382: StarvinStruthers's A2600 Barnstorming "Difficulty 1" in 00:32.69
Posted: 2/3/2017 7:23 AM
Post subject: alrighty then
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StarvinStruthers
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so i have two versions of this tas available the bk2 i have provided gives the best igt which in my opinion makes it the better tas but i have another bk2 with less input frames that still beats the game please let me know if you would prefer the bk2 with less input frames and i will post a mediafire and also edit my submission text
Posted: 2/3/2017 10:34 PM
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zaphod77
Joined: 1/13/2007
Posts: 340
in this case, ingame time is the proper objective, since that is what's measured. also note that if you never release the button and neer hit anything then barring glitches i cannot be improved. i was pretty sure i had done this once rta.
Posted: 2/4/2017 12:50 AM
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Zarmakuizz
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I remember that, for one game, going for the shortest input file lead to a really boring end of movie where it takes ages to reach credits. So the audience asked for a quicker ingame time instead.
Posted: 2/4/2017 1:34 AM
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Patashu
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Zarmakuizz wrote:
I remember that, for one game, going for the shortest input file lead to a really boring end of movie where it takes ages to reach credits. So the audience asked for a quicker ingame time instead.
Are you thinking of [2641] Arcade Magician Lord by £e_Nécroyeur in 07:17.73? That's the most egregious example I can think of where going for shortest input is way more boring than going for fastest credits.
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Posted: 2/4/2017 7:14 AM
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StarvinStruthers
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYDgiIVb-Es this is why i had asked.. game has an igt also
Posted: 2/4/2017 7:41 AM
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Spikestuff
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StarvinStruthers wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYDgiIVb-Es this is why i had asked.. game has an igt also
Tekken (specifically 1 and Advance) are a different case. They both dominate the TAStime not the IGT due to it being faster to complete with the slower (fastest) characters. If you want to say a game for Tekken that had focused primarily on ingame you should've picked the third one... and the userfile improvement (That can never be submitted as fastest IGT is already achieved). Second one also focuses on IGT and not TAStime due to the speed of Yoshi. Also they used the Hardest Difficulty.
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Posted: 2/4/2017 8:22 AM
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StarvinStruthers
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well i was ultimately shown this as an example as to why i should count my final input frame as the final time and not the end of the game as the final time i was just bringing this up because i was unsure what tasvideos prefers as i am new to making tas it conjured up a question in my head so i felt it should be asked i haven't really seen that many tas.. i wasn't really trying to prove a point
Posted: 2/4/2017 5:07 PM
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Hetfield90
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Aiming for fastest completion or shortest input file are both acceptable under the movie rules and is ultimately left up to author discretion. As far as preference goes, there isn't really a consensus on this and there have been disagreements on it in previous submissions. Personally, I prefer runs that aim for fastest completion since moving the finish line closer does not mean you are going faster, and they're called speedruns, not shortruns. If you do aim for fastest completion and your movie ends up with a longer input file than a movie aiming for shortest input, it may still obsolete that run as long as there are improvements irrespective of the differences in endings.
Posted: 2/4/2017 9:22 PM
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StarvinStruthers
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lmao "why the HELL are you playing DUMB and talking about IGT" i like author discretion solid rule its my tas and i'll cry if i want to
Posted: 2/12/2017 10:31 AM
Post subject: Re: alrighty then
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feos
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StarvinStruthers wrote:
but i have another bk2 with less input frames that still beats the game please let me know if you would prefer the bk2 with less input frames and i will post a mediafire and also edit my submission text
I want to at least see it.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 2/13/2017 1:09 AM
Post subject: Re: alrighty then
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StarvinStruthers
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feos wrote:
StarvinStruthers wrote:
but i have another bk2 with less input frames that still beats the game please let me know if you would prefer the bk2 with less input frames and i will post a mediafire and also edit my submission text
I want to at least see it.
its an extremely minor difference http://www.mediafire.com/file/1255ts4s1065933/barnsTASlessinputs.zip in my opinion the better igt is the better tas (not saying this tas is remotely good or entertaining) also i believe i forgot to mention that ascending seems to cause a decrease in speed and descending seems to cause an increase in speed this is why continuing to descend causes a better igt
Posted: 3/23/2017 11:57 PM
Post subject: Movie published
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TASVideoAgent
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This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [3352] A2600 Barnstorming by StarvinStruthers in 00:32.69
Posted: 3/25/2017 6:33 AM
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zaphod77
Joined: 1/13/2007
Posts: 340
I don't think this even beats RTA, except by starting on first possible frame. I've even a few RTA videos with a ingame time that is 1 number smaller, and it seems that the counter goes up every frame. why is RTA ingame time 32.74 while TAS is 32.75?
Posted: 3/25/2017 8:46 AM
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feos
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Links?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 3/25/2017 9:08 AM
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ruadath
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Link to video
Posted: 3/25/2017 9:31 AM
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feos
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I don't understand. I tried improving this run and I couldn't. Can something else be different here? Anyway I'd be interested in seeing someone manage to beat this time in the same conditions.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 3/25/2017 10:05 AM
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ruadath
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Can we rip the run off youtube and do a frame-by-frame analysis? I do that with nico videos sometimes. although the fact that the video is not 60 fps means we lose some info...
Posted: 3/25/2017 10:12 AM
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Spikestuff
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It's related to either the game or the emulator. You can get a 32.75 or a 32.77 using the author's input as is, with minor tweaks near the end/start. The reason why I think it's related to emulator is it has a similar case to E.T.. Where the RTA blows out the TAS due to being... well a console. I can easily be wrong about this, but it's just one theory about it. The other thought, is one of the tabs were flipped on the console, compared to ours not using the flipped switch.
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Posted: 4/18/2017 11:06 PM
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zaphod77
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Anyway, i do think this beats rta, but as i said only by starting on first possible frame. It seems this is a poor choice.
Barnstorming Manual wrote:
With practice, it is possible to fly the course at full speed with no collisions
A perfect run is within human skills for game 1,2, and 3. according to Activision Game 4 would be more interesting from a tas standpoint, due to randomization. i suggest that a new run on game 4 be done, using luck manipulation, and that it obsolete this run, since it seems tas and human skills are the same. Game 4 randomizes the run on game selection. so an optimum layout must be manipulated then. https://atariage.com/manual_page.phpSystemID=2600&SoftwareLabelID=976&ItemTypeID=&currentPage=1&maxPages=6 NOte that the game is intended be played at difficulty b on both sides. changing either makes it no longer possible to beat at full throttle. That doe smake it more interesting from a TAS standpoint though.
Posted: 4/19/2017 1:17 AM
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Alyosha
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I didn't notice this until now. Almost certainly that RTA run was captured from a reset. Reset can change these internal timers slightly, you can see a similar effect in dragster.