From that last line I take it this works for both Majora's Mask and Ocarina of Time. How exactly does it work? Do an A slide and pull out hookshot/longshot or what? And how difficulty would this be for real time? :p For it to work do you have to end at a wall??
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PKFC wrote:
Radz wrote:
I would like to see Pepsiman
This :P Haha.. It's a short game so maybe it would only be an April Fool's entry, but if there were sufficient glitches.
I actually did this for april fools but didn't submit it (cause I didn't completely finish it) :p .. I might do it next year for april fools .. And no from what I tried, no ground breaking glitches.. just hilarious ones :p
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dw0914 wrote:
Hmm... so I was recently thinking of recording some gameplay in FFT via an emulator, and I stumbled upon these bugs myself and tried every way I can think of to get around them (re-downloading various components, even patching to 1.3). Then of course I stumbled upon this thread, which for some reason wasn't showing up in my Google search-fu. As a long time TASvideos spectator, I was pleasantly surprised to see that this was the site with the greatest wealth of information about the issue :)
It seems like the current release of PSXjin has been out for several months with this issue listed on their bug report page as a new, but unaddressed issue (meaning they're not even actively working to fix it, as far as I could tell).
My understanding is that there is no PSX emulator with standard "Record Movie" capabilities (i.e. actual movie files, not just running Fraps while you're playing) that can actually run FFT glitch-free. Considering that I'd love to sit through hours of various TAS runs (calc run, JP glitch run, "regular" run, hell even a 100% run)... and that I'd love to make some of my own videos... this is a sad state of affairs :(
Is there anything I can do to help? I know projects like PSXjin depend on the free time and goodwill of those who developed the platform, but... donations and the like can often be a decent motivator for the otherwise unpaid but wonderful people who produce such things for the general public. I'd be more than happy to provide a little incentive for this issue to be bumped to the top of the to-do list.
I realize a better place to post that suggestion would be the PSXjin mini-site itself, but it seems closely linked to TASvideos and I wanted to first triple-check that my understanding (that no recording emulators can run FFT) was correct.
Thanks!
Yes, you're right as far as we're aware. This community has been wanting a TAS of this game for quite a while now.
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groobo wrote:
I don't know about chalices, but it comes down to pure math anyway. Time the sections where you absolutely need to kill enemies with and without a different weapon than the standard sword, then time how much time getting this weapon takes. Add that up and you've got yourself an answer.
Did you actually get into the looping state with normal game means?
Yeah pretty much. No I've not yet been able to do it, whenever I try (like trying to get away from kill triggers) I die due to the "Jumping from too high insta-death" before I can even reach the kill triggers. So level looping might not be usable.
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groobo wrote:
IIRC you actually can't get into the level looping state without cheats in this game. Each time you try to go oob, dante will start to stutter walk in place, and won't take another step in any direction. No worries, though - there's a glitch involving this effect, which you can use to skip stuff. Dante will freeze in place, weather you're on the ground or not and there's a single frame window of opportunity where you can jump out of this state. You can use this to ascend above normally accessible heights or to travel along the 'oob barrier'. Eg. you can skip basically the whole whitechapel level with this.
There are a lot of level design errors which can be used to skip whole chunks of stages. Like in kensington you can maneuver from the train tracks to a balcony and, from there, drop down into the trigger which transports you into the house where you get the pocket watch - from there you can head straight towards the level's exit. Or in greenwich observatory you can skip the cutscene where the green little pesky enemy appears for the first time, by going up the roof right before the cutscene trigger and doing some tricky jumps above it - then with some dash jumps you can skip all the following puzzles and go straight for the finish line.
I don't recall anything more than that - it's been a long time since I played this game. Also, I can't remember if kbd works in this one too.
edit: I wasn't aware of the speed glitch. Couldn't it be used to skip most of the sewers (or was it time machine: sewers?)? Either way kbd is useless now, even if it still works.
Hey Groobo, I figured you'd help me out with this one as well! Yes, the speed glitch was found only yesterday, by me. I've tested oob out before I even posted the thread and it's confusing to maneuver but possible. I don't think the kbd works, cause I haven't been able to get it to work, which is why I left it out of the glitch section (although its technically just a trick anyway, at least in my opinion), but with the speed glitch, It would be rather useless anyway. Sadly, the speed glitch doesn't work in the first game (at least in the same way), or it would improve the tas time by 20+ minutes (since it would be then possible to skip levels).
Thanks for the input by the way, it's good to know what is shippable and what isn't from the get go. What's your input on getting chalices for certain levels? In my opinion I think getting the enchanted sword since when it's enchanted is very powerful, and using the lightnings special attack helps clear out many enemies at once. If skipping certain levels, like whitechapel, wouldn't it still be beneficial to get the chalice since in whitechapel, the first area gives you a whopping 83% chalice completion.
edit: And of course, the same problem with maneuvering Dan exist in this game as well, even when moving straight the camera insist on making Dan turn multiple directions. Since moving straight and not detouring from that is faster than detouring even slightly, it becomes hard to optimize the TAS.
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Post 2: Level Playout
----------------------------------
After mild testing, I've found that the speed multi glitch only allows you to quickly get from point a to b to c to... etc... Unfortunately, levels have a thing where levels can't be so easily skipped. Now, this hasn't been tested with the level loop glitch to get over invisible barriers to see if things like "Transfer points", "Exit Triggers", and things like that are still there without using a key at a point for example. Yet, even though the speed multi glitch will get you to speed at unimaginable rates normally, when you run through invisible barriers, even doors, exit triggers... The game recognizes that you are still within the level boundaries, even though you temporarily aren't... then no matter where you are, be it in the air walking, or on the ground... You're pushed back to the exact spot the level thinks you are.
Although it's still possible to get out of bounds in this game, I've yet to find a good spot to where it's useful :( . However, minus all the bad news and we get some great news! Chalices and the rewards from them have a much better use in an any% run because instead of the usual minute it takes to get the item, it only takes about 10 seconds, which marvelously helps far more than the 10 seconds it takes to get the item, and most levels, you actually can fill the chalice along the way.
Level 1: The Museum (Get chalice?: ✔)
-
info here.
Level 2:Tyrannosaurus Wrecks [Boss Battle; No Chalice]
-
info here.
Level 3: Kensington (Get chalice?: ✔)
-
info here.
Level 4: The Freakshow (Get chalice?: ✔)
-
info here.
Level 5: Greenwich Observatory (Get chalice?: ✔)
-
info here.
Level 6: Kew Gardens (Get chalice?: ✔)
-
info here.
Level 7: Dankenstein (Get Chalice?: ✔)
-
info here.
Level 8: Wulfrum Hall (Get chalice?: ✖)
-
info here.
Level 9: The Count [Boss Battle; No Chalice]
-
info here.
Level 10: Whitechapel (Get chalice?: ✔)
-
info here.
Level 11: The Sewers (Get chalice?: ✖)
-
info here.
Level 12: Time Machine - Museum (Get chalice?: N/A)
-
info here.
Level 13: Time Machine - Sewers (Get chalice?: N/A)
-
info here.
Level 14: Time Machine - Ripper (Get chalice?: Auto Pick Up for defeating)
-
Info here.
Level 15: Cathedral Spires (Get chalice?: N/A)
-
info here.
Level 16: Cathedral Spires Descent (Get chalice?: N/A)
-
info here.
(FINAL)Level 17: The Demon [Boss Battles; No Chalice/ End of game]
-
http://youtu.be/PzyxRELsBkg?t=4m30s
With that plan you can see that I'll be getting the enchanted sword and lightning at most. There are reasons, and honestly, unlike the last game seem to be alot more effective.
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Not a shock I'd make a thread stating I'd be doing this game since I've already TAS'd the first game in the series! Now, for those interested, don't get your hopes up, this TAS wont even be majorly worked on til me and the other Spyro 2 100% Tasers finish up Spyro 2 100%.
~
Route: Standard only do whats necessary route.
~
Current Glitches:
Sadly, the level loop glitch from the first game exists yet, I don't know of anywhere were we can actually begin to level loop, and the select glitch has been fixed.
1.) Speed Multiplication Glitch; Once you start running, the speed is caped at a certain amount... However if you mash the up arrow (easy with frame advance), dans speed will mutliply every single time you press up. Very useful for getting between places easy. Note: It's not always a 2x multiplication, but I like the name of the glitch that I chose lol.
2.) Level loop glitch; As stated above it exists, though idk how to do it in this game, yet.
~
The game has graphical glitches, which is really a pain. It's not bad enough like Crash Bandicoot 3, but still the ground stretches and things like the on PSXJin, so its not great for eye candy. If you have anything you'd like to add, feel free to put it in this thread.
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Spikestuff wrote:
Torn338 wrote:
Here's just a simple lua script I edited from a base script (from pirohiko's Crash Bandicoot 2 Lua script)... Edited to fit Spyro 2.
Language: lua
Lua Code in here
I had a look at your lua script there is an error on line 3
"Spyro2.lua:3(line 3): '=' expected near 'line'
Also it's not a good idea to grab a script from a completely different game as you do need to change parts of the script.
Yeah, the line 3 error was a mistake either on my part or TASVideos code display part. I'll explain, the "Comment Line!" on line 3, should actually just be on line 1. I have no idea why it got pushed down to line 3 on the forums, but it's still on line 1 in the actual script, but I'll edit the forum post to fix that.
About grabbing a script from a different game: Either way, you can look at the script and tell what values you really want, and those you don't. The base script had things like "boxes", which I turned into "Gems" for example. Sure it's not the smartest thing to do, I agree, but either way the script would have "nearly" looked the same in the end.
In the actual lua script (the one I have saved on my computer), and the one that should now be fixed on the lua script section of my other post... It shouldn't have any errors until about line 23 where instead of numbers or address, it simple has an "x". If you guys still get errors please tell me? It works fine here.
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Crash, Cyprys, Lapogne. Here's just a simple lua script I edited from a base script (from pirohiko's Crash Bandicoot 2 Lua script)... Edited to fit Spyro 2. This is if you guys check this and I'm not on skype (which is likely lol). Sure it's basic, and not exactly the best ever, but it works. Some values aren't written down because Crash already has most of the values we need, and the others shouldn't be too hard to find...
Also, to anyone reading this. How do I make lua script text... not... so small ? lol
Language: lua
--Hello, this is a lua script designed for "NTSC-U Spyro 2: Ripto's Rage". -- means it's a comment line!
local HEADER = 0x5F38C
local pScale = 2109000
local vScale = 100000
--The above values needn't be messed with! (??)
gui.register(function()
local addr = memory.readdword(HEADER)
if addr ~= 0 then
addr = addr -0x80000000
else
--That's for drawing the Gui Register and header, not much on that.
gui.text(8,45,"")
return
end
--(line 16)
--These values affect Spyro's world. "Local x - Local XY are all about spyro's position".
--
--
--Where as values "Local D - Local Orbs" all affect Spyro's enviroment.
--The values "local X - Local D... After "readdwordsigned"...
--The ( x ) is there for us to input the addresses where needbe.
local X = memory.readdwordsigned( x ) / pScale
local Y = memory.readdwordsigned( x ) / pScale
local Z = memory.readdwordsigned( x ) / pScale
local XV = memory.readdwordsigned( x ) / vScale
local YV = memory.readdwordsigned( x ) / vScale
local ZV = memory.readdwordsigned( x ) / vScale
local V = memory.readdwordsigned( x ) / vScale
local XY = math.sqrt(XV*XV+YV*YV)
local D = memory.readwordsigned( x ) / 4096*360
local Gems = memory.readword(0x67660)
local Orbs = memory.readword(0x6702C)
--
--These values affect the actual text that gets put onto the screen.
--
gui.text(8,52,
string.format("%8d : Rerecord Count \n",movie.rerecordcount() )
..string.format("%4d/%3d : Gems \n", Gems , 10000 )
..string.format("%4d/%3d : Orbs \n", Orbs , 64 )
.."\n"
..string.format("%8.2f : Z Pos \n", Z )
..string.format("%8.2f : Z Vel \n", ZV )
..string.format("%8.2f : X Pos \n", X )
..string.format("%8.2f : X Vel \n", XV )
..string.format("%8.2f : Y Pos \n", Y )
..string.format("%8.2f : Y Vel \n", YV )
..string.format("%8.2f : XY Vel \n", XY )
..string.format("%8.2f : Velocity \n", V )
..string.format("%8.2f : Degrees \n", D )
)
end)
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I've not really taken the time to read alot of this thread in general, but Ilari I was wondering if you have any plans to change the GUI a little? It looks very, well vague... compared to alot of the other emulators, and that itself isn't a bad thing.. I kinda like how it's different.. but things like setting up controller buttons (I do mean for the controller itself, not a joypad, I'm using a keyboard) and hot keys were very very confusing to me. Was wondering if things like that could be made a little simpler in the future as it was rather time consuming compared to pretty much all emulators to even set it up.
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chessjerk wrote:
Another update: my unassisted run was posted recently:
http://speeddemosarchive.com/FinalFantasyTactics.html
Ignore the time listed of 4:17, the SDA admins acknowledged they made an error with the timing. The correct time is 4:22:16.
Is anyone still thinking of a TAS of this?
Yes, I will be doing a TAS of this as soon as it's possible to do one of it but it's not possible as far as I'm aware because of the guest glitch... Not to mention even if an update came tomorrow, I couldn't work on it yet til I'm done with Spyro :| (which is getting there finally).
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Hey Crash, thanks for showing interest.. I read your reply a few days ago but I've been busy so I figured replying before now would be pointless.
That route is great and I'll be sure to add your name to authors list of the pjm movie. I've got exams Friday (tomorrow from the day of posting) and this coming Monday, then I'm out for summer break, so I'll be able to put alot of time into this, so we can begin working on it then. Also, I believe you said you wanted my current work, sadly I've had to keep redoing my work cause I keep finding improvements on Glimmer, and pjm files don't have a stable method of editing, so I just redo it all. But within the week I'll send you what I've got as far as Glimmer goes.
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Great run Lapogne, I'm not going to say that I watched it all, cause I didn't, but what I did watch was amazing and pretty much something a human could NOT do easy (or at all lol). I'm voting yes... but as for sake of the tas itself...
It looks like in some places, alot of lag happens, does that take away from the speed of the run by any chance?
Also, are you still interested in helping with the Spyro 2 100% TAS? There has been some major improvements found and the run is already looking amazing, and I'm still only optimising Glimmer :D.
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TheYoungStarsOfTheWorld wrote:
Hello dear TAS-Runners, I did a pretty good TAS WIP for this exact speedrun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPjT8G22MNI
Check it out and leave some feedback. I really did put a lot of effort into this!
Hi TheYoungStarsOfTheWorld, I'm going to be frank and helpful to you.
As a tool assisted speedrun, that was completely horrible.
And as a speedrun that was horrible.
A tool assisted speedrun, the runs hosted at this site use tools, hence the "Tool Assisted" part, namely frame advance, which is playing the game frame by frame (a frame is an image, think of a picture frame, but instead of the frame that holds it, the picture itself, for other purposes that are 50 (for European PAL roms) and 60 (For pretty much everywhere elsewhere on Earth/NTSC Roms) Frames per second (FPS), slow down (self explanatory, but if you need a explanation: Not playing the game at full speed), scripting (name LUA Scripting), MOST IMPORTANTLY rerecording (The massive abuse of save states and the loading of those save states to undo MISTAKES), and other things... Even using robots (Yes robots) to play games to perfection, although... Nothing is perfect, so we try our best.
You obviously have no idea what you're doing in regards to TASing, so I'll link you to some stuff that can help you:
1. http://tasvideos.org/WelcomeToTASVideos.html
2. http://tasvideos.org/MovieRules.html
3. http://tasvideos.org/Guidelines.html
4. http://tasvideos.org/TASHowTo.html
But... Before you can TAS a game, atleast beat the game ONCE. Then learn to speedrun the game (check here for details of Spyro 2: Riptos Rage, NOT Gateway to Glimmer) ...
Speedrun: http://speeddemosarchive.com/Spyro2.html
TAS (any% by Lapogne36): http://tasvideos.org/1523M.html
I recommend you read all the links I've provided you, and watch BOTH the videos I gave you... If you're interested in speedrunning or Tas'ing it's best to do it right! And in advance, I do apologize if I've come off as rude, I don't mean it that way!
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UPDATE:
The route has drastically changed because sunny beach now has a climb skip.
" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCC1S2cO22c "
As such the route now goes like this:
1. Glimmer
2. Colossus
Purchase swiming
3. Idol Springs
Hunter's orb
Gliding to the other orb
Swiming in the air glitch
orb which normally requires climb to get
4. Hurricos
5. Sunny Beach (NOTE: I will need help on this as I've yet to be able to pull this trick off D:)
6. Ocean Speedway
orb near the speedway
7. Aquaria Towers
Crush
-SUMMER FOREST COMPLETE NO BACK TRACKING -
All levels on the lower level of autumn plains
Purchase climb
Scorch
Fracture Hills (Rush through it, get 100% on return)
Talk to the professor?????
Magma Cone
The 2 Autumn Plains orb (suicide after that)
Shady Oasis (Rush through it, get 100% on return)
Gulp
Purchase skull bash
(Metro Speedway 100% ON RETURN TO AUTUMN PLAINS)
-To be announced-
~~~~~~~~~~
Other news: I've discovered a glitch where if you fly under non open portals (in out of bounds), that you can enter them anyway, whether or not you have enough orbs or gems to pay for it to open normally... And according to the game, you've opened it whenever you return to the home world. I do believe this can even be used to get to dragon shores early, but since it doesn't really serve a speed purpose, it wont be used... But I think it's pretty neat anyway lol.
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At first, when I looked at the results I was like, why on earth are people voting no when this run deserves NOTHING but publishment... But then I started watching it and well a few flags set off...
1) It's a (J) rom, and we all know the rules on that... They shouldn't allow to be bent for only certain runs.. However, I did see above that they're probably going to change them...
BUT here's where my vote comes into question.. In The video description you yourself (SL) say this:
"Over the past week, there have been a series of new discoveries which have resulted in another cutscene skip being possible. It's done at the end of the Fire Temple and warps Link right to the start of the Forest Temple. I am aware of this trick, and it does not warrant a redo (and it won't hex in easily at all)."
As such, I'm voting meh. I'd love to vote Yes, because I know you worked your arse off on it, but knowing that there is a big enough improvement known to warrant to redo alot of the run (sadly)... I just feel that as of how it is right now, I can't give a Yes, and I'm definitely not going to give a no... So I guess a meh is where I'm staying :p.
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Basically Impossible to optimize completely, so for a run that would aim for the fastest time, it just wouldn't really be all that possible...
The boxes which contain powerups in this game sprout all throughout the level randomly, and while you can manipulate if they'll spawn, you can't always manipulate what you want, when you need it, as all the boxes give 2 powerups, not 1 like the iconic games we all love, however not as much as random as something like Mario Kart.
Since this is a racing game, idk if it'd be accepted here, but it's much more than just racing, and really it's a very fun game in it's on. I've been messing around with the game a little and have found a few glitches so far.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Firstly, a glitch which involves tricking the game into thinking you're in last place, when in reality you're in first place .. and after you pass up the other toy racers, the game recognizes you're in first place, and when going through the lap knocks out 2 toys, instead of 1.. so you get to finish the race earlier than normal. I don't know if this works on every stage that is a knockout race, but it does on the first race with woody.
Here's a .pjm (https://rapidshare.com/files/2563892757/Racer.pjm) if anyone wants to make a encode or watch in PSXJin ... Although you WILL need to watch in PSXJin2.0.1 as 2.0.2 doesn't run the game oddly.
The pjm itself, isn't optimized at all, it's just a test run to see how the game works, although the level itself is good, but still not perfect ... I dunno if i'll make a full run of this, probably just mess around with it and do a few levels. Although in my opinion, this'd be a very good TAS to watch :p
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You know, I was actually looking into this many months back, but I didn't see it as run I'd be entirely interested in doing... But guess it was because I didn't have much motivation to do it then... I could possibly help you out with this if I can get around to it.
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chessjerk wrote:
Do you mind sharing what those bits and pieces of strategies are? I am curious.
If not, that's OK.
Yes ofcourse. Just really the obvious things though.
-Crits always, unless unnecessary.
-Attack enemies based on CT. (Make it so the enemies don't really get turns).
- Once we get agrias, abuse crush punch (atleast I beleive that's the one), so all hits are instant death.
- Manipulate enemies to walk into death traps. Such as abusing flare/death in the non calc run.
- Using our guests as an advantage and killing them when necessary to save turns/time.
That's just the basics though really. I have a good strategy for the sand rat level which consist of abusing who goes first, blocking them all inside, then using either flare/death. Though (even though it wasnt flare/death, was pretty much the same), i tested this on v1.3 so it works out pretty good. think the spell was cyclone that I used, that ended up killing them all very fast.
If we can, we can also abuse charm in this.
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chessjerk wrote:
Has anyone actually come up with a battle by battle strategy for a TAS? Or is it too soon for that, since apparently you can't get past the opening battle?
Well I've got bits and pieces of strategies, but nothing majorly like step by step. As soon as the devs fix this glitch, I'm fully willing to co author this with someone. But until then can't do much. But I have, with save states, messed around and find how crits/miss/etc can be manipulated easily enough, for the non-calc run.
I can't really say much on the other stuff you said until I can get around to watching your full runs again, which will take a few days on my part, but someone else might can answer.
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chessjerk wrote:
I for one would definitely like to see a TAS for both calculator and non-calculator runs.
On another note, I just finished improving my calculator unassisted run for SDA. The final time was around 4:22 (about a 22 minute improvement). I guess a TAS could get this under 4 hours, maybe?
I'll have to watch that soon.
The TAS would definitely get under 4 hours (perfect crits and what not), but (without watching/guessing), I'm assuming anything under 3 hours is far fetched. So I'm guessing somewhere from 3:30-3:50 would be the time for non calc. Just by better optimization you saved 22 minutes, and the TAS would more than likely save another 22 minutes, but it require an insane amount of discussion between people.
Hopefully they can fix this issue as it'll be a TAS of the year type thing :p
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Ephew Anjrmahm wrote:
TASManiac wrote:
I would certainly love to see a TAS of this game.
I can't do it because the game doesn't run right. Gafgarion's turn comes in the first battle, but he doesn't do anything.
If somebody could help me get this to run, I may be able to TAS it.
Otherwise, I do have a lot of knowledge of this game. I could help with route planning.
I actually came here today having the same problem! Tried different emulators and different rom downloads. After hours I feel like I've lost some IQ!
I want to playaround with some non-calculator routes that will require ridiculous luck manipulation while remaining creative....if I could only TAS my way past the first turn of the first battle LOL
The emulator can't detect the event triggers that make the guest moves, so this game is untasable at the moment (afaik, that is the reason why). However, once the update comes to let this game by tasable, it'll definitely be on everyone's list. It shouldn't be a hard fix to do, as emus such as epsxe, can run the game just fine.
Unfortunately though, the run will be a calculator run... As much of a disappointment that is to some, it is the fastest way. But it doesn't mean non-calculator runs can't be made. It just wont be displayed on the TAS list.
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dave_dfwm wrote:
.
I think it's more impressive to see the 00:22 at the end of the game than the 00:23 in the current movie.
When a game has an in-game timer, and emphasizes the in-game timer by actually SHOWING it to you at the finale, I think preference should go to the in-game time movie.
I completely agree with this. As a metroid fanatic, time shown at the end is always more impressive than overall time... However, the debate is, should this obsolete/be published along Taco and Kriole's run right? In my opinion, it should just be published along side it, as it doesn't beat the old run in real time, and only does in in-game time.
