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DrD2k9 wrote:
The one who did the bulk of the work for each port was listed first.
Exactly, but atleast they were put in order of time....descending. :)
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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Just curious if there is any discoveries on this issue.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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Heck yeah on a yes vote!
This was an absolute favorite of mine, when it came out.
I'm surprised that time is still being cut from this. Great job!
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
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RetroEdit wrote:
Dev builds are regularly released, so you can grab one of those. If you want to cherry-pick commits for some reason, you can build it yourself.
Sounds good, can't wait to see what you find. Thanks!
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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RetroEdit wrote:
nymx wrote:
I have tried to debug this myself, but the BizHawk sln has an architecture that will take me some time to figure out. At this moment, I don't have spare time to dedicate development to this app. Hopefully soon.
Yeah, I've been contributions to BizHawk recently so I'm going to look into it now, and I should be able to find the code that raises the error. Solving it may be another matter entirely, though.
Huh...just curious, but if you happen to find a answer, do you suppose a binary file could be copied over to the existing 2.5 release? That way we wouldn't have to wait for another full publish?
Nevermind...If you find an answer...I can just publish locally.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
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RetroEdit wrote:
My workaround is to generally avoid TAStudio when scripting and take advantage of the speed boost when TAStudio is closed. I do stuff TAStudio is good at while I'm not using my scripts.
I wish, in this case, I could. I'm actually using TASStudio in a unique way to develop inputs that are used by my lua. If this were not the case, I would absolutely love to eliminate that for more of a speed increase. This is now giving me the push to move over to converting this to APIHawk.
RetroEdit wrote:
But that doesn't make sense for certain scripts, so I sympathize.
Thanks. The work done on this application is appreciated. In the meantime, I will be sticking to BizHawk 2.4 until it has been resolved.
I have tried to debug this myself, but the BizHawk sln has an architecture that will take me some time to figure out. At this moment, I don't have spare time to dedicate development to this app. Hopefully soon.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
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RetroEdit wrote:
This specific issue you mention is known and documented in this ticket. You can check there for progress, if any.
In general, Lua is a tricky thing, and I find interactions with TAStudio to have problems. Hopefully that will be resolved in the future.
The sad thing is, the changes to the cores in BizHawk 2.4.2 have amazing speed increases for ones that I use. This lua error showed up at the same time as those updates. I'm so anxious to make use of them.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
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RetroEdit wrote:
This specific issue you mention is known and documented in this ticket. You can check there for progress, if any.
In general, Lua is a tricky thing, and I find interactions with TAStudio to have problems. Hopefully that will be resolved in the future.
Thank you.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
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After the release of BizHawk 2.4.2, I was no longer able to use a lua script that had been working on 2.4.
With the release of 2.5, I had hoped that it would have been resolved...but it appears that I have a unique situation.
Any clue as to what is going on?
Just to add, I am testing these new version with a single instance; however, with 2.4...I am running multiple instances.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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Invariel wrote:
I appreciate what this run does, and I think it belongs on the site more than it doesn't, but I can't claim to have been overly entertained.
The movement is solid, the puzzles appear to be solved as quickly as possible, but, to me, beyond pressing the buttons really quickly and using known fastest solutions, there's nothing else here (to me).
I appreciate what is done here from a technical standpoint (including alternating WASD and UDLR controls to press buttons as quickly as the game will acknowledge them), but I can't really appreciate the gameplay beyond that due to the nature of the game.
I have voted meh on entertainment, though I must admit that I appreciate that this submission exists.
I second this.
If you compare this to other puzzle games, where response time is necessary, it would make more entertainment. But in this game, you are not required to speed through in order to make the solve any better.
Vault run, IMO.
No vote.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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I've revisited this submission and I have a concern.
First off...the run is in fact completing the game. (Credits show for obvious verification)
My concern is, it appears that Dark Boshy shouldn't be a selection from a clean game.
According to https://iwbtb.fandom.com/wiki/Default_Characters, Dark Boshy is a character that can only be selected from an unlocked state.
What this means, is that a verification run needs to be provided to confirm the existing save state that this game is starting from. Using this character is not forbidden, but it certain doesn't seem possible from the a fresh of start this game.
Do you have a verification movie to support the save file that is needed to produce a movie by someone else?
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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Ok...to start off with, this is the reason TASing exists. It takes a very good game and destroys it with amazing non-stop movement. In comparison with the human WR for average mode, it is over 8 minutes faster with superb game play.
On the entertainment side of things, this game has tons of variety with cameos and material from games that we all can recognize over the the decades. The ability that you demonstrate here keeps the audience engaged...which coincides with the current voting so far (4 yeses at the moment)
An excellent first submission and a great way to grab the attention of the site. It appears to have had a ton of work involved to cut so much time...even over the fastest previous TAS. Great job and recommending acceptance to moons with a probably chance of a cherry pick to stars. :)
Yes vote.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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Invariel wrote:
nymx wrote:
A normal amount of effort would show around 25% to 50% for the most common type of work produced.
I know that you mean 25% to 50% of total frame count, and you know that you mean that, but when explaining this to new people, it helps to be explicit. :)
Oops. :)
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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Greetings KietTezend's
I want to point out a few things, which have been mentioned in this thread so far.
For one, not seeing the bios start up sequence is a good indication that something could be carried over from a previous session that gives an advantage to the game play that wasn't demonstrated by a previous movie. Using a savestate properly can open up possibilities that can boost the performance of your movie; however, if a "Verification Run" is not supplied, unfair advantages can exist that do not represent the game's true capabilities. This would be necessary in order to prove that any savestate hasn't been altered by exterior tools, other than what the game produced. Apparently, this is not your intention...but just a note as to why your movie must have a clean start.
Please see movie rules in regards to this scenario.
http://tasvideos.org/MovieRules.html#WeDoNotAllowSaveAnchoredMovies
I am not familiar with this game, but Spikestuff has mentioned obvious flaws. Movement optimization is the highest priority of a submission. If a movie can be easily beaten by members of this site, judgement will be passed unfavorably to your efforts.
One item that doesn't sell well for you submission is the low re-record count (1103). A normal amount of effort would show around 25% to 50% for the most common type of work produced. In rare occasions, re-records can exceed the movie length and beyond.
I don't wish to discourage you, but this is the trend of new TASers. I can only encourage you to take the time necessary to prove that you have exhausted your knowledge of the game...to the point that your experimentation can show if alternate inputs can make changes for the best.
One good point though, is that you have chosen a very good game to TAS. It would be great to see how far this can game can go, in terms of time.
As it stands, this movie should be rejected for use of a savestate as a starting point. If it is possible to recover these inputs, as Spikestuff is hopeful of, then the next step is analyzing it for optimization...which apparently doesn't hold with the expectation of this community.[/url]
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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feos wrote:
Do you think a meaningful any% record is possible for this game, without caring about score explicity?
In normal sense, no; however, if this game exhibited avoidable lag...would that constitute an any% run to have as many of them removed, regardless of the score?
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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arkiandruski wrote:
To be clear: I was not using the difficulty played as grounds for rejection. I was merely saying it isn't as black and white in this case.
No problem at all. The more discussions we have here, the more ammunition we will have to make a decision. Since our guidelines state that this has a chance, then there are other things to consider.
Still sifting through...
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Good reasons to use easier difficulties are:
*More health for damage boosts
*Less boring enemies leading to less lag
*Faster bossfights on repetitive bosses, especially if their lower health can lead them to be one-cycled, and they are not interesting to fight for longer periods
wesen wrote:
As explained in the comments the under water boss takes 8 more hits in the hardest difficulty which was my main reason to use the easiest difficulty. I also pointed out the other differences to the hardest difficulty that I noticed in the comments. Overall it is a bit faster to use the easiest difficulty.
If this is the case, then the fights are extended to a boring amount of time, that really doesn't add to the entertainment. I see that this movie still has potential for acceptance.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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Samsara wrote:
Or, more accurately, a single sports game and 3 shooters, and maximum score is a perfectly valid and Vaultable goal in either case anyway.
I am in agreement with Samsara.
If max score wasn't the goal here, then the only thing left for acceptance would be the entertainment level reaching moons...otherwise rejection. With a current 77% yes vote (my vote excluded currently), that would mean it is borderline in that area. But the author has correctly identified a suitable goal for submission...which rescues it from the fixed running time. (
Sports running with a fixed time, such as football, soccer, or basketball are not eligible.
)
Mog2 wrote:
It was interesting to see how the game "handled" points above 99, something they must have presumed would not be possible.
This is a good reason for a yes vote from me.
In regards to an acceptance, I see that the optimization looks really good (timing shots to kill more than one enemy at a time, which in turn only supports a stronger Max-Score related goal).
I recommend acceptance to vault with a branch supporting the only category possible for this game.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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Oh...so the Emperor got his clothes back and now he thinks he can dance? :P
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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Unofficial games are allowed under restrictions
Hacks (defined as being an unofficial modification of an existing eligible game, released primarily in a downloadable format - usually a patch file) are not eligible for this category. We demand hacks with entertainment value, therefore they are judged by the Moon tier requirements.
This is a rule that wasn't so clear to me, as it is now. I'm seeing now that if we accept every bootleg, pirated, or hack of any game...we could have a massive flood of publications that could water down the intent of this site. If in fact this retains a low level of entertainment, then it would be vault related...which in this case would mean rejection.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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Well, my side-by-side with the WR speedrun shows some impressive cuts.
At first glance, I thought it was easy enough to keep up with the speedrun...but you demonstrate great execution that edges out the human run.
There is not much to point out, in terms of optimization, as every thing looks well done. The run is well paced and has the ability to keep an audience engaged.
Being the first submission for this game, I recommend any% branch and set for moons.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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Adding to Arc's assessment.
I did a side-by-side comparison and noticed that the speedrun and this TAS don't seem to be the same. Not having played this game, I attribute this to either the game randomly going through backgrounds and bosses, or that it is just a different version. One thing to point out is that the ninja fight shows up in different orders , but they still exist. So I don't see a problem with the comparison among the RTA, as long as both runs exhibit the same content. Additionally, it seems that all the stages are on a fixed amount of scrolling time.
As Arc stated, it would be nice to have more submission notes to analyze what was done to cut time. One item that I believe could be a factor is cutting lag; however, I don't see that lag is a factor...unless a frame of it exist upon hitting or killing an enemy. If this is the case, a frame of lag in these cases could mount up to a big saving by the end...if shooting it on a different frame would actually remove it.
If this game didn't have any boss fights, I would say this autoscroller would be a trivial attempt, unless it was known that the end of each stage could be triggered quickly by killing the last seemingly scripted enemy appearance, or the aforementioned possibility of lag reduction.
Because the author takes damage during boss fights, and the fact they they are vastly superior over any human effort, I also agree that this should be accepted to the vault.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
----
BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
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Mothrayas wrote:
Camera scrolling
The most important aspect of optimization in this game is actually not so much the movement of the player, as it is the movement of the camera. Obviously the two are tied together, but advancing areas or spawning bosses generally depends on the position of the camera, so making sure the camera does not lag behind at any point is of utmost importance.
Conveniently, it's rather easy to get ahead of the camera, especially when taking a turn towards a new area. If the character is ahead of the camera, the camera will keep scrolling at a consistent 2px/f pace as long as the character is facing forward or diagonally forward (with less wiggle room if facing diagonal), even if the character isn't actually moving.
In the first few levels it's most obvious that the pace of the run is more dictated by the camera than by the player character, but later levels with more enemies make it significantly harder to move on unimpeded, so there still remain lots of challenges along the way.
This was the first thing that I noticed in the encode. I was wondering why there was momentary hesitations, but this explanation settles it for me.
Mothrayas wrote:
As a reference, bosses have just 4 frames of invincibility per hit, which means that for optimization purposes, the biggest limiting factor for damaging bosses is not the invincibility time, but rather the firing delay between projectiles. However, those 4 frames of invincibility do mean that it's not possible to do multi-hits with projectiles that reach the enemy at the same time. This renders most attacks like spread shots useless, as it's simply not possible most of the time to hit different spread shots with enough time in-between.
This is unfortunate, in the sense of a grand display of ammo barrages. To make reference, The Bomb Torizo in Super Metroid is one of the first bosses that I can think of that has this problem. Even though current TASes no longer deal with this particular fight, speed runners have to remain calm and not shoot missiles as quickly as possible. The cool down in this case is not so much of a problem, as the invincibility time is more of the concern; however, other bosses don't demonstrate that issue at all...particularly Phantoon, which can take them as fast as you can deliver them.
I also discovered this recently, with a TAS that I'm currently working on, where it is possible to to hit an enemy with multiple ammunition...yet it doesn't have any collective productivity. So the challenge, as with this game, appears to be the careful timing between firing and delivery to ensure the fastest damage possible. To add complexity, different ammunition also has different delivery speeds which means you can sequence them in the right order to maximize the time spent.
Great work. With a current vote of 3 (being all yes) and always moving for constant action, this is on track for a strong and higher level of moons. Looking forward to hearing from others on this.
Yes vote.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
----
SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
----
Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
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BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Editor, Experienced Forum User, Judge, Published Author, Skilled player
(1720)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 837
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
Well, I saw this coming. I figured those cuts you discovered would soon come out in this one.
Nothing really to say, its all been made clear in your most recent publication. Great job...keep it up. :)
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence.
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SOYZA: Are you playing a game?
NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing.
SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real?
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Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes?
Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :)
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BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Any clue as to what is going on?
Just to add, I am testing these new version with a single instance; however, with 2.4...I am running multiple instances.