So I think any frustration or offense caused is probably due to misunderstandings on all sides.
I also did not realize this was a test run, or I'd have worded my posts differently. Many of us are just wondering or curious--it's more the nature of how runs are normally critiqued here (at least in my experience).
If you do not want any suggestions, then there's no reason for us to offer them. If you do want help in some way, there are people here glad to offer feedback and maybe test some ideas. Just let us know.
It seems like a lot of time is required to build up the superswim speed needed to travel from Outset to Windfall (makes sense, given the distance). I'm curious as to how much time is lost by doing two shorter superswims, stopping by whatever island offers the best quick source of rupees and isn't too out of the way.
I guess Islet of Steel might be the only option, though, looking at the islands in the path. That's a shame.
jlun2 wrote:
It is? I thought it was just skipping the clothes. It only looks like a new game+ run, but it isn't. Right?
You're right. I just expect someone will see Link wearing the lobster shirt and say "hey, why is this a new game + run?"
Not sure why I wrote "TASer" there, guess I was tired. Don't think anyone can contest his general knowledge of the game and routes, at least.
Anyway, I'm glad we're moving back on-topic. I have never in all my time playing this game seen more than one deku nut drop from trees, and I do like rolling into trees. Nevertheless, I would be surprised if purchasing nuts were faster than trees. Do nuts ever pop out of bushes? I can't remember seeing that, but I never paid much attention to nut drops.
Deku Nut drops would just need to be found at any point up to putting Farore's Wind on B, yes?
I'm not looking for an argument or to further derail this thread. You aren't grasping what I'm trying to say so let's just move on and try to stay on topic.
Spider-waffle, last time I attempted to politely suggest your posts were excessive and less than helpful at times, I was tactfully told to "stop stirring shit up." At this point, though, it seems like the stirring's been done by you and Slowking.
I don't understand why you can't show some level of respect to someone who is your senior as a Zelda TASer. My understanding is you don't seriously TAS or speedrun this game. I apologize if I am mistaken but if I am correct it does seem quite rude of you to continually justify your position based on what are effectively no credentials. Yes, perhaps you once or twice have suggested ideas that were ultimately correct, but as the saying goes, "even a broken clock is right twice a day."
Slowking is a talented TASer and he obviously wants to continue improving on this game. I don't necessarily condone his expression of frustration here, but I certainly understand it. Your posts are like the incessant nudgings of a child... "try this!" "try that!" You may be right occasionally but that doesn't justify your persistence in suggesting things in such sheer quantity.
I wouldn't mind at all that you do so, but you continue to act as though you're blameless. Most recently, you clearly were not watching Bloobie's run, as the suggestions you made would have been obviously in error if you had. Nevertheless you ignored the suggestions from the TASers here and kept insisting on ideas that were clearly flawed (even to me as a novice OoT speedrunner). Some modification of your posting habits would be greatly appreciated--at the very least, attempt as best you can to fact-check your ideas against existing runs before posting about them, given how often you suggest things that clearly just will not work. If you did this, people would take your posts more seriously and show you a higher level of respect.
I don't know if a moderator will eventually be by to delete all this mess. I would like if they did--but maybe the thread will just get locked instead. Guess we'll see. This should have all been said in PMs anyway.
Nobody hates you, but you are most definitely at times a source of annoyance. If Slowking is being offensive it's because he's frustrated that you just don't seem to get it, and being nice hasn't helped. Perhaps you should reflect upon the point several of us have tried to make.
I'm somewhat surprised there isn't a better island on Link's path to get an easy 100 rupees--that chest under the house looks so slow to get, even if it is the best option. I'll just double-check that real quick, though I'm sure you've done your homework. I'm also a little unclear what boss key is being skipped (I'd assume the second dungeon, but you list it as being "cleared" earlier so maybe I'm reading it wrong). Just looked up the Boss Key Skip on ZSR, pretty clear now you meant second dungeon (not sure where else you'd even be skipping anyway).
Kirkq wrote:
18: Forsaken Fortress 2 (FF2) (Helmrock superswim, zombie hover past boss fight to loading zone. (You get a shield now if i recall, but still have starting clothes, lol)
Just wanna call this now: if the run gets submitted someone's gonna object on the basis of it being an obvious new game + run because of this.
I'm not an expert anywhere near the level of active members of the speedrunning community--I just lurk the forums where such things are discussed and try to keep up as best I can with new runs.
Hopefully someone with more knowledge can lend suggestions, but I'll go through the forums as best I can and see what I find. I wonder where clipping or wall-climbing might be useful in a TAS when it isn't realistic in real time--we already use the wolf jumps for EMS and outside Arbiter's Grounds, I think, and clipping to skip Zora's Armor. I know there'd been discussion about getting the normal bombs to blow up the blockage in Zora's Domain (someone had figured out how to drop them in water, but they weren't able to push the bombs near the spike).
I'm going to try not to backseat drive here. I hate it when people do that. I have a high-end PC so let me know if you'd like me to test anything that gives you trouble, and if I come up with any good ideas I'll give them a go myself, as time permits.
I'm excited that you're TASing this game, and it sounds like you just finished the most difficult part, so... hey. There you go.
Perhaps in the future this game will see goat herding frame wars. Until then, though, you're probably okay to move forward.
Do you have any ideas that you want to try that depart from the known routes or rely on tricks not realistically possible in real time? I know the Zelda tricking community broke this game pretty well, and I don't remember reading anything about possible TAS-only strategies...
I realize you can strictly define what buttons belong on a controller (since that's just a statement of fact), but at the same time, the reset button is effectively just one more form of input a player has in determining the course of his game; it's just not one used as often as the others. It's also a fairly dangerous button to push on accident. I imagine if these two facts weren't true, the reset button could easily have been put on console controllers instead.
I also feel like your approach would potentially have some problems with oddities like the Psycho Mantis fight in MGS (although I understand it's faster to just kill him, so maybe that's a bad example). Point is, while there's nothing arbitrary about your system of determinations, you have made a somewhat arbitrary distinction regarding what buttons are valid ("controller buttons only" is the category you're describing). I'd like to think that permissible input includes anything the developers of the hardware allowed/expected you to do when using said hardware. Just my 2c.
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I'm not at home so I can't watch this, but I'm hoping for an encode. I've been silently following this in the FF9 thread (afraid I'm not familiar enough to have been any help), so it's great to see it submitted. Based on the WIPs I'm sure I'll be voting yes, but I'll wait until I see it of course.
Don't be too hard on the guy. It was a nice first attempt, and optimizing this game is fairly new.
That said, I'm impressed so far. Are you working on this regularly? I know you were doing some stuff with SA2...
If that river jump becomes possible... man. That would be huge. I also tried it for quite a while. A shame there's no way to have Faerie Wings at that point...
I'm busy with school so I've been less present lately, but I'll check in when I can.
Beamup's listed hit% formula doesn't seem right to me. I don't really know how to challenge it one way or another but it seems like a lot of enemies would naturally have a ridiculously high chance to evade early game. It also doesn't explain why you can land a hit at 100 RISK and/or a 0% chance to attack the enemy, and fairly often at that (in my experience, somewhere around 1 out of 8 attacks that show a 0% hit chance will connect anyway).
I'm interested to see how quickly you blow through the game once you get to the forest. We should look at the duration of the Faerie Wings buff and figure out how many you need--I'm willing to bet that it'll be worth farming an adequate supply to last you throughout the game, even if it means more time spent in the forest--there's simply too many puzzles skipped and enemies avoided when you're moving at that speed to justify ignoring them. I think a chest late game has 5, but I can't remember if it's on the way or not.
ElectroSpecter wrote:
Also, Acheron86: I'm probably going to try for KoB this time around! I'm more patient than I was back in my high school days.
I have had about 6 29-chain combos that made me rip my hair out; something about that number is cursed. I also had one that I landed the 30th combo but the dummy died from hit #29. I suppose using MP/HP restoring skills would be wiser but their slow speed tests my sanity. At any rate, godspeed!
One point that some people missed: RBO *has* been done on console, for example here:
http://www.archive.org/details/Hotarubi_SuperMetroid_RBO_54
He's picking up a lot more items (46% instead of 33%) and taking twice the time (0:54 instead of 0:27) though, but he is doing the bosses in reverse order and he skips all the suits.
Thanks for pointing that out. RBO is a great category to publish for this exact reason. The only way to complete it on console is to be extremely good at the game, and then still you need to change the route substantially to pick up all the upgrades needed to pull it off.
I feel like a lot of good points have been made. I guess I'll throw my hat in the ring and focus on an important reason to publish this...
Nobody could do this run in real-time using this route. It isn't even remotely possible. I doubt it's possible even using every e-tank obtainable before fighting Ridley without radically changing the route used. Norfair and Maridia both exemplify the sheer impossible-ness of this route.
Note almost every other category is completable on console using routes close to the ones in the published/submitted TASes. A few tricks in any given run may not be doable or may require extra pickups, but for the most part they require little change in the gameplay. I believe even the any% glitched was theoretically doable (maybe even actually done? I remember someone working on it) on console. RBO is by far the hardest challenge you can throw at this game--it is Super Metroid's hard mode. That alone should make it worth consideration for publishing.
There are many other points to be made but others have made them more articulately than I could. I do agree that some categories we have now are not worth keeping; I'd be glad to see this replace one.
I think skipping Grapple makes grabbing Space Jump mandatory, right? Or at least Space Jump without Grapple must be faster than skipping both, just for leaving Maridia after beating Draygon...
Still watching, though I can't imagine not voting yes.
We've had the "this game has too many runs" argument so many times. I don't see any reason to have it again. I do believe it should be published as a new category but that's the judges' call in the end and there is strong resistance to giving this game multiple categories, as people who are not passionate fans of it have trouble appreciating the distinctions between any%, 100%, low%, no glitch any%, NBMB, RBO, etc. and I can't really blame them for not loving each category like individual children.
Toothache wrote:
I'm just wondering - can you get away with not collecting the reserve tank? Seemed like you only had to dip into it the once, and your health management was excellent all the way through.
IIRC, damage on the elevator continues even though it doesn't show until Samus stops moving. So having 04 health when Samus enters the elevator to lower Norfair means she'd be dead as soon as it stops moving. Even at 50+ health, I believe she would die instantly. Getting on the elevator with a sliver of health and using the reserve tank allows Samus to avoid a lot of normally unavoidable damage (as you'd need at least one more e-tank, maybe more, to survive that elevator ride without the reserve tank kicking in).
The second use of it before Ridley is just faster since they already have the tank.
@ everyone
This raises some questions about the two Earthbound categories. As I see it, the glitched category was made because of the debug menu (which was a questionable way of completing the game). But would the "check area" glitch, which makes glitched text appear, still be allowed in the regular category? It could be used to warp to places quickly, and there wouldn't be any debug menu at all. Of course it would take some fun away from the regular run, but why allow the "walk through walls glitch" and not the "check area glitch"?
I don't have any problems with the categories, as I'm not going to make any more Earthbound runs soon, I was just saying...
I don't see any reason we would deny the "check area" glitch. It's taking advantage of poor coding but not messing with RAM; in that sense, no different than walking through walls (programming error, no modifying game memory).
I would test forcing the game to call Ness' mother's dialogue outside of her house and see if it can run that code without crashing. I don't know why it would crash, but these things tend to be... unpredictable. Assuming you forced it (using PK Hack or an emulator cheat) you could probably verify that calling her dialogue works or doesn't work. Then, of course, someone still has to manage to get her dialogue to come up using only the glitched chat. This would be much easier if we knew how to manipulate what pointer is being used to call dialogue.
Yes, after looking at the damage formulae I just don't see any way a weapon pickup is faster than running around at no health and relying on Raging Ache, given the need for buffs/debuffs to make it viable.
I still think a crossbow may be worth picking up for a few boss fights where you won't land the first blow with Magnolia Frau's short range--the time lost from its longer animations can't be worse than the delay from enemy attack animations, and this avoids the issue of having to worry about defense abilities to survive special attacks. It's honestly a toss-up in my book, though. I know jumping up and down constantly can delay enemy attacks (they won't ever hit you when you're in the air) and you can possibly avoid them ever getting attacks off, which makes the Frau a better choice.
When I get the chance I might try to pick up one or two of the strongest items and see where that puts a first playthrough Ashley in terms of damage output. If there's any boss in particular that you might save a lot of time on, it could be worth it. I'll look into it, but plan on Raging Ache.
Riskbreaker Y might be able to verify for me exactly how Braveheart works--I'm curious if this gem might make it possible to get less MISS effects on your attacks. If so, that makes getting a weapon with it worthwhile.
What are you trying to do vs Dullahan? Manipulating so that every attack hits?
Honestly, though it would be a completely arbitrary goal, a good concept run could simply be to showcase every class. Between the JP glitch and crystal acquisition, you could easily have a Solo Ramza run that plays every class (except Mime and Dancer, of course). It would be quite delightful to see someone change classes before each battle to something intentionally terrible. Cripple Ramza with the worst abilities and classes for any given fight, then somehow pull out a ridiculous victory.
It really is a shame such a run could not be considered publishable. It's exactly the kind of thing that would make a TAS of this game fun to watch. I wonder if it could qualify as a concept demo.
Far be it from me to impede the progress of any TAS, but it just seems rude to continually argue with people who have the skills to TAS. If they don't think it can be done, your options should be to do it yourself or let it go, not to badger them into doing what you want them to do.
I hate to even post anything but you're just blatantly ignoring their repeated requests to drop it. At some point good manners should take precedent, even over possible improvements.
The run looks pretty good so far. I still wonder if you can't manipulate drops from enemies from time to time, though I don't think there's anything you could have gotten before Dullahan that would help that fight.
I do wonder why you chose STR +1 on the bonus wheel. I don't think it's a big time loss to go for a better stat, especially since +1 seems rather low given that you could be buffing MP by more (and you -will- want extra MP later, for teleporting). 2 MP is the most you can get from a wheel, but you're not going to be hunting for +MP items so you'll probably have to settle for that. I'm fairly certain the STR benefit is almost completely negligible anyway, long-term. I could be mistaken on this, of course, but I would suggest being sure you have all the MP you need for teleporting. At one point you will need to teleport about halfway back through the game (I think you need around 65-69 MP to make the trip, but again my memory is hazy.)
I don't think it'll be of much help given that you'll never be buffing INT/AGI but this guide can be useful:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/914326-vagrant-story/faqs/39091
He says it's "random" if you get the AGI or INT wheel if those stats are equal. I wonder if you can manipulate a different wheel somehow, but that does add another thing to worry about on top of the current crit/hit chain manipulation...
At any rate, I can answer some of those questions.
exileut wrote:
Do I get the Magnolia Frau and use it for the rest of the run?
I did a quick check to verify, I think this is correct.
The Fandango is a bronze weapon (+2 str) with Scimitar (+7 str). It's edged type.
The Magnolia Frau is a silver weapon (+3 str) with Wizard staff (+1 str). Blunt type.
Lots of enemies in the game have all sorts of different resistances. You're going to have to look at bosses case-by-case. I'm sure Riskbreaker Y will have done more research on this but I only see Magnolia being useful against undead with edged resistance (silver has a natural bonus versus these enemies).
Keep in mind, because you can manipulate crits in a TAS as well as item drops, weapons that might not have been necessarily useful for Riskbreaker Y could end up being good for you.
exileut wrote:
What do Faerie Wings do?
These handy items are something you'll probably want to manipulate the crap out of in Snowfly Forest (the flying enemies there can drop them at a pretty good rate). They increase your movement and jump speed substantially for a little while, which will help in avoiding enemies, moving through rooms, and skipping puzzles.
exileut wrote:
I avoid killing more in a TAS, I'm going to be behind on points.
How do Battle Points/Raging Ache work?
Is Impact Guard required? Or Defensive chains at all? Are there rooms where you will be attacked no matter what?
Battle points are simple. If you do an 8 chain attack, you'll get 7 battle points. Basically it's the number of your combo minus one. However, points don't roll over, so if you're only 4 battle points away from a new skill, doing a 15 hit combo would waste the extra points.
I honestly don't remember at what point you can get Raging Ache. You need to acquire only battle abilities (the list of abilities you can learn is set in a fixed order, and only three show up at a time, so you have to learn one of those three to make the next one on the list available). I want to say it'll show up about 4 skills in, which would require roughly 90 battle points. This isn't too bad, as you're going to definitely chain more than 90 times, and Raging Ache will be most important late in the game.
As for the chain ability itself, Raging Ache does 10% of your missing health in damage. Since you'll almost definitely do 5-10 damage max with a crit on anything late game without workshopping your gear, Raging Ache can end up being the bulk of your damage. Losing health shouldn't take more than a few seconds of triggering a potent trap, and there's no reason you should ever need to heal. Because you cannot use the same chain ability twice, I suspect once you acquire Raging Ache you'll just switch between that and Heavy Shot. I don't think we'll see Crimson Pain on a speedrun, so no lowering your health through your own attacks.
exileut wrote:
Could you come up with how much MP I need and when for teleporting? Watching further into your run it looks like I should be getting +MP from every boss fight bonus. Taking time to obtain/use mana items seems much slower than the few less chains on a boss more str would give me.
Like I said earlier, you're going to do zero damage on most bosses throughout the game regardless of your strength stat, simply because the gems, weapon material, and attack type are all far more important than stat scaling in this game. Earth Dragon doesn't care if you have 50 STR or 65 STR... it's socketing +Air gems to a weapon that makes you a threat to him. Best case scenario you might do 20 damage on a crit instead of 10. This won't really help any once you get Raging Ache, and the time you have to waste on two teleports + using mana restoration items is much worse than the gain from a few hits saved per boss.
Again, keep in mind you do have the advantage of guaranteed crits and you can manipulate STR increases from Elixir of Kings... these aren't things a normal speedrun could count on. So you may end up going a different road. But traditional speed running of this game relies on increased MP for teleports and Raging Ache to kill bosses.
I know you realize some of this already. I would probably look at his run and see where he does the biggest teleport, or where he does teleports closely enough together that his MP hasn't had time to naturally regen. Then just count how much MP is being spent. I would do this myself but it's finals week. If nobody does, I'll look into it when I have the time.
It is a real shame the Minotaur in the Keep Time Trial requires the Kalmia Sigil. I could almost see ducking into his room and manipulating the mace drop being a time saver, but not with the added time you'd have to take to go into Iron Maiden B1. It might end up being slower anyway.
--
I took the liberty of going through enemies you'll be running into, and marked drops that may be worth picking up. I want to put this stuff out there now because you may end up being able to actually build enough STR to want to prioritize that stat. In a speedrun this would never happen but a TAS with guaranteed crits and drops may make it worthwhile. I'm referencing this guide:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/914326-vagrant-story/faqs/15974
I can't verify the information from school but I've used it in the past. I believe this is all accurate. For reference, I'll compare it to the Fandango. Note that the Fandango, a Bronze Scimitar with a Short Hilt, totals in at 10 STR.
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Gabled Hall - City Walls West
Zombie Fighter drop: Hagane Scimitar + Swept Hilt = 14 STR
Basically a better Fandango (Hagane will give you another +4 STR over bronze). At this point weapon damage may still matter. You also have to kill this enemy anyway to unlock the door in this area. This is right on your path, after beating Duane and getting the Magnolia Frau.
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Way of the Mother Lode - Undercity West
Zombie Knight drop: Hagane Short Sword + Cross Guard + Braveheart Gem = 22 STR
This enemy is optional but right on your path. With the hilt and gem attached, this would be 7 more STR than the Scimitar above and 11 more than the Fandango. Quite a nice upgrade, and the Braveheart gem may make this even more worthwhile, as it increases all affinities a little and helps your chance to land an attack (which will make manipulating hits a lot less stressful).
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Forest River - Snowfly Forest
Zombie Knight drop: Hagane Firangi + Counter Guard = 22 STR
This weapon and its hilt are stronger than the short sword, but since it doesn't have a gem it ends up being only one strength more than the one above (12 more than Fandango). I mention it because I do think you'll end up killing this enemy (they tend to block your path across the logs in the river). That's the only reason I can think I'd get this instead of the sword from Way of the Mother Lode. In all likelihood, you'd end up ditching it in a few rooms for...
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Hewn from Nature - Snowfly Forest
Dark Crusader drop: Hagane Katana + Cross Guard + Demonia = 24 STR
Boss drop, so you're guaranteed to get it. Again, in a normal speedrun it wouldn't matter, but if you can max strength and guarantee crits this is a possible option. Riskbreaker Y might have more to offer on this. This weapon has 14 more STR than the Fandango, and Demonia will increase your effectiveness versus evil enemies.
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Kesch Bridge - Town Center East
Crimson Blade drop: Hagane Falchion + Counter Guard = 26 STR
Crimson Blade drop: Hagane Cranequin + Javelin Bolt = 26 STR
The sword here is only two more strength than the Katana from the boss earlier (16 more than the Fandango), so it's only a minor upgrade. However, the real prize here is the bow. The Cranequin has an impressive 26 STR total. This puts it on par with the sword here (and again, 16 more than the Fandango), and the advantage of a bow is that you will have a significantly larger attack range. Besides allowing you to attack a boss sooner, this also might give you time enough to hit a boss before they land an attack (bosses in this game tend to be at the back of a room, and many of them, such as dragons, will almost certainly hit you with a spell before you can hit them). I would strongly consider diverging from a normal speed run to pick this up. A bow might be useful all the way through to the end of the game, especially given the way the final boss fight works.
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Rue Criminade - Town Center East
Crimson Blade drop: Hagane Gloomwing + Heavy Grip = 32 STR
Next room from Kesch Bridge, you have a nice mace that totals 32 STR, 22 more than the Fandango. There's not much to say about it otherwise.
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Noble Gold and Silk - Undercity East
Quicksilver drop: Silver Baselard + Side Ring + Angel Pearl = 28 STR
Right after getting teleport from the Lich, you have the chance to pick up this weapon. At 28 STR, it's weaker than the Gloomwing and has a small attack range, but it is silver, so it will be useful versus any undead in your path. It also has the Angel Pearl, which increases light affinity; this can be quite useful as quite a few foes and bosses ahead are dark-based. The Side Ring grip also has a nice increase to edged damage. I can see this being situationally useful.
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From Boy to Hero - City Walls North
Blood Lizard drop: Iron Voulge + Framea Pole = 34 STR
Even though it's only iron, this weapon clocks in at a nice 34 STR. I'm sure you can guess how much more than the Fandango that is. How many hours are in a day? A little stronger than the Gloomwing, all said.
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Alone for Eternity - Limestone Quarry
Gremlin drop: Damascus Lug Crossbow + Farlacia Bolt = 31 STR
31 STR on a crossbow is great! Unfortunately, this room is one of two paths and it's probably faster to go the other way (two Dullahan will go down quicker than two Ogres). Moreover, You have to enter the room with 150 health or more, and at this point you're probably rolling with Raging Ache. I'm listing it as an option, but I don't think you'd pick it up.
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Hall of Prayer - Temple of Kilitia
Nightstalker drop: Hagane Double Blade + Bhuj Type + Braveheart + Morlock Jet = 44 STR
Alright, this one's a toughie. At 44 STR this is probably the best weapon you could pick up in terms of raw damage. The enemy that drops it won't spawn on your first visit--you get a boss fight when you come in here. On your way to the Great Cathedral, though, this guy will be waiting for you. So if you take the time to kill him, this can be a great, hard-hitting upgrade. Assuming you have maxed strength whenever possible I can see you doing actual damage on bosses with it. However, the Morlock Jet attached will increase your dark affinity, so you might suddenly be doing the exact wrong kind of damage to some foes...
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Those who Fear the Light - Temple of Kilitia
Gremlin drop: Hagane Lug Crossbow + Falarcia Bolt + Haeralis = 31 STR
Minor upgrade over the Cranequin from Kesch Bridge, at 5 more points in STR (21 more than the Fandango). The Haeralis won't really do anything special at this point because your remaining bosses are not humans, but it does add a little more damage on.
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Well, I've definitely put off studying too long. I don't know how much of that will help but it's a start. I didn't really consider elements or edge types, only pure STR, because right now that seems to be the main question on the table (building STR to actually do damage versus building MP early on for teleporting often). At some point I'll try to look into the damage formula for various weapon types and iron out how much you'd need for it to matter. In the meantime you can do some of that research yourself:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/914326-vagrant-story/faqs/56772
Hope that helps. Ask away if you have questions, I love this friggin' game.
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Edit: Electrospecter, for what it's worth, on 20+ playthroughs of this game, with every title earned and pretty much everything you can do in this game done, I've only ever broken 30 twice. It wasn't the last title I got but it was the hardest, no question.
Forgive me, as perhaps I am just not familiar with timing for this game, but by seconds in the video it looks like he hits the vines about 1:05 after he first gets control (3:10-4:15). Where does the count of 48 seconds come from? Is that your estimation of the time saved in a TAS?
I also only see 16r picked up in Zora's river. Perhaps you meant to link a different video?
