TASVideos

Posted: 5/10/2021 2:36 AM
(Edited: 5/10/2021 5:48 AM)

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Akuma

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hmmm, this might actually work. I did the double crouch at the beginning of level 16 (with GT1) to get close enough to spikes to run through without being hit, then last possible jump at gate, and paused when the Prince's head is directly lined up with the Torch. This is the last possible animation to pause. If you paused any later, the 1-frame no-input required for unpausing would result in an interruption in running, and cause a stop. There are several variables here. For comparison, I made a video with the single crouch method, currently used by TAS, and I paused 1 animation later, to save 4 frames. However, in the double crouch test, I was able to pause 2 animations later, where the Prince has basically landed from the jump. The double crouch test was 1 animation faster overall, so given the difference in pause time, it appears they may be tied. I have no way of testing how the TAS will handle these scenarios, so I'll leave that up to you. I look forward to your findings! It's wonderful how this is all coming together. While the late jump was a great idea, it couldn't be used to improve the FGT route, since FGT could jump straight through the gate while in the air. Since GT1 must crouch to "get close enough to the gate," the second crouch is not as big of a time loss. So if everything else works out, it just might be 1 animation faster with all the savings in the next room. I made a quick test video to show what I'm talking about. Link to video

Posted: 5/10/2021 1:46 AM
(Edited: 5/10/2021 5:46 AM)

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Akuma

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I've confirmed an 8 frame improvement for level 16. You can hit select 2 animations later, at the beginning of the boss music, and still have enough time to continue running after the music is done. Allowing 2 extra animations to play during boss music is basically free movement, and you will be 2 units closer to the end by the time the boss music is finished. Also, it may be worthwhile to revisit the idea of jumping closer to the edge of the screen, to allow for several extra animations into the interior of the boss room before hitting pause. For this setup, perhaps a double crouch, to get inside the spikes, then initiate jump as close to the gate as possible. I'll do a few tests, and see if anything looks good.

Posted: 5/8/2021 6:37 AM
(Edited: 5/10/2021 4:37 AM)

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Akuma

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Well, I've confirmed that this faster setup works for the "All 20 Levels" route. That is, beating level 1 first, exiting level 2, and returning to level 1 to acquire GT1. The steps are the same: a single-up at the warp-6 hole to enter "Level Zero," and continuing to 5th room to climb through the hole after the gate; and returning to Level 1 once more to jump through the first hole. After this, you "Continue" to Level 2, without having to enter Level 1 again with GT1, so you can do the faster running jump in the final segment -- no need for the double standing jump. Unfortunately, climbing down through the hole at the end of the "Level Zero" segment causes a minor button scramble, which only affects the B (jump) Button. On the options menu, it changes it to "Crouch." But in fact, it's more complicated than that. In this case, the B button has Kill Button functionality, as well as Jump functionality, so it's a triple button here. The Jump + Kill have priority, but if you're doing a jump and hold the jump button too long, the Prince will do a buffered crouch at the end of the animation. Pretty weird. If you stop playback on the TAS, you will find this same button scramble is present for the remainder of the TAS. Obviously, it is not an issue for the TAS. However, for a human player this will be a liability, as any instance of holding the B button for too long may result in a buffered crouch, which will ruin a perfect run. So a human will probably need to waste time resetting the input options, either on the warp-16 route, or the "all 20 levels" warpless route. As I suspected, lag in Level 2 is terrible. Of course the lag reduction method established in the first 2 rooms of level 2 is essential to avoid further horrendous lag, but the lag associated with the alternate setup extends into the 5th room, costing a lot of extra time. I may try to get a recording later to determine how bad the lag is. Between that and the button scramble, it may not result in any savings for a human at the beginning of a 23 minute run. I tried different approaches for the single-up, and a couple of different drops at the end of Level Zero, but it keeps coming up with the same button scramble, adding the "Crouch" + Kill + Jump to the B Button. So I'm not sure if there's a way to avoid the button scramble. In any event, the Level 2 lag looks pretty bad.

Posted: 5/7/2021 6:30 AM

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Akuma

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I put together a few more comparisons. So it looks like the new GT1 setup is actually about 180 frames faster than the human setup (if TAS was doing it); and about 153 frames faster than the old TAS route (with scrambled buttons). There's also about 170 lag frames saved on levels 16 & 17. This isn't exact, but roughly 324 frames = 5.4 seconds better on route + lag, so definitely a good justification. So I'll definitely be learning this new setup. The funny thing is, 100% of the savings comes from the route changes. Technically, this new route has "more lag" than the old route. The reason is, while 170 lag frames are saved on level 16 & 17, more lag is gained during the setup; about 186 extra lag frames between 1c and 1d. So it's a net loss of 16 frames due to lag, against a net savings of perhaps 340 frames of route improvements during the setup. The question is, will this new setup work for the "all 20 levels" route. It is generally considered best to just beat level 1 in the first segment, so that you don't have to repeat the first 3 rooms beating level 1 later. But beating level 1 first does change the glitches, because jumping past the first guard is different from exiting before the guard room. In this case, beating level 1, exiting level 2 & returning to level 1 for further glitches may require a slightly different setup. Or perhaps it can be done exactly the same. In either case, I suspect there will be a lot more lag at the beginning of Level 2 than we are used to seeing. I'll do some tests tomorrow.

Posted: 5/5/2021 3:04 AM

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Akuma

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Ok, I just made a quick test video for the TAS. Biz-Hawk frame counter labeled the first frame of level 1 as 1556, and the first frame of the select menu as 31,095. That adds up to 29,539 frames = 8:11.5072. Whereas, the timestamps for my video give roughly 29,541 frames = 8:11.54048. In either case, 8:11.5xx is magnificent. This is wonderful news for me, because that means I should be able to get a sub-8:20. I'll work very hard to get that soon. Once this TAS is considered final, I hope you or someone else here can help make a 1080p 60 fps version for publication. It'll be important for posterity that every frame is clearly exhibited.

Posted: 5/4/2021 8:58 AM

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Akuma

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I wish you were interested in TAS'ing my "all 20 levels" GT1 route. It would be a lot of fun to see what strategies I missed, after all the work I've put into GT1. I think once I'm able to complete a full run, it might gain traction as a legitimate category (aka Warpless). In this case, I would rename the "original" speedrun category as "Glitchless," (no warps, no sprite corruption, no kill button, no GT gate skipping). What I love best about GT1 is the alternating sword and prince sprites during running and jumping animation sequences. In many cases, the alternating patterns make it extremely easy to tell exactly what the timing is. As I was watching your GT1 TAS, I could see and hear exactly what you were doing the whole time, and knew exactly what you did differently from my videos. haha.

Posted: 5/4/2021 8:49 AM
(Edited: 5/5/2021 3:03 AM)

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Akuma

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That's so cool! The only thing that stood out to me (just from watching in real time) was a possible extra animation at the beginning of level 5. I think maybe you can do a different first jump to avoid the extra half step, as you can see in my new World Record video (8:26.216). Of course, if they result in the same animation count, then no need to change. I'll start having a closer look at everything tomorrow. One other thing that occurs to me from memory: the comparisons weren't perfect, but it seemed like the upper level u-turn in the 5th room of level 1 was just a little bit slower (maybe 3-4 animations) than clipping the edge and falling facing left, before turning towards the gate button. I just thought I'd mention it, in case you hadn't done a more thorough comparison of those two methods for this situation with GT1. If I see anything else tomorrow, I'll mention it. Otherwise, great job! Really glad to see everything come together. Now I'm curious to know how realistically low I can take the human run. A sub-8:20 should definitely be possible.

Posted: 4/29/2021 8:12 AM

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Akuma

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That's a wild setup for GT1. The 1b segment (single-up to level zero, plus jump down hole #4) is about 4.6 seconds faster than the human 1b+1c segments (single-down + quad up). However, your setup causes about 1.423 seconds of extra lag during the double-jump to hole #1 segment. There was another 1.382 seconds of extra lag for GT1 in the first room, and the first part of the second room. With all this extra lag, most of the savings is lost. I think with optimized movements, this may be about 1.5 seconds faster, altogether. I don't know if you ever saw this, but there's another way to get GT1, by going to Training Level 2, and using the loose panels to create a glitch hole at the far left of the level, where you climb down and head back to the right. I never bothered with it too much, because I could never figure out how to make it activate kill button, and of course, the problem with Level 1 access. According to your "Training TAS," it only takes about 55 seconds to reach that hole. But I suppose that doesn't leave enough time (11 seconds) to solve the kill button and level 1 access, now that the new GT1 routes are accessing Level 1 in about 66 seconds. haha. --- That's a fun Warp 4 setup. But that warp-8 sprite will not allow for FGT activation at the Warp-16 hole. So as a non-GT alternative, it's about 24 seconds slower than the optimized non-GT warp-4/16 route.

Posted: 4/29/2021 7:19 AM

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Akuma

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I was able to save 8 frames with the running jump. It's not as much time as I expected. Basically, you cannot kill Jaffar until you are locked into the running jump, so it's a situation where you need to hit kill button + jump button simultaneously. Furthermore, you cannot hit jump button until you have moved far enough forward to escape the "standing jump" override. And finally, you cannot start running until the first possible kill frame (for GT1, that's the first frame where Jaffar is a Blue Monster). If you start running any earlier than that, the first kill frame resets the battle, and you are automatically stopped to draw your sword. So the 24 frames lost on the Jaffar battle are mandatory in order for this trick to work. But this is offset by a 32 frame improvement in the hallway, for a net savings of 8 frames. In the hallway, I only tried the "Standing Jump." I don't know whether running would be faster or not. I also saved 1 frame during Jaffar death with the Select Menu, and another 1 frame during the Jaffar intro with the Select Menu. So overall, this was 10 frames better than my previous recording. 1675 console frames = 27.8707663492 seconds. In this video clip, time is counted from the first frame of Level 20, which the TV finished drawing at about 9.9256760294921437 seconds. Time stopped on the first frame of the Select Menu at the end of the level, at about 37.79644237869849 seconds. --- Gate Thief #1 -- 27.870766 seconds -- 1675 console frames. Link to video

Posted: 4/28/2021 7:04 AM
(Edited: 4/29/2021 8:37 AM)

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Akuma

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That's fantastic! I went back and did a frame count for RTA comparable numbers (as with the TAS projection list on the previous page). As it turns out, you did find enough improvements to break 8:30 by RTA accounting! The timestamps for my camera recording of the computer monitor gave a total of 08:29.964 = 30,648.231 console frames. So the official count should be 30,648 or 30,649. I won't be able to do a 100% accurate frame count off a monitor, since it doesn't draw frames the same as an old CRT tv, but the general idea is quite evident. Level 01 -- 5840 [-38] Level 04 -- 3739 [-15] Level 05a - 2209 [-0] Level 05b - _824 [-30] Level 16 -- 1132 [+24] -- net [-6] between 5b & 16; quicker warp, but more lag. Level 17 -- 2166 [-8] -- 2 animations saved with better jumps. Level 18 -- 7651 [-7] -- 2 animations saved with better jumps. Level 19 -- 5405 [-17] Level 20 -- 1683 [-3] -- count based on when select menu should have appeared. 94 frames improved since I put together the projection list! That's truly impressive. I think I've realized an important update for Level 20. It should be a little bit faster to switch the last 2 jumps. If you go back, you will see I experimented with this idea when I posted my first GT1 Full Speedrun (20:15.993) with Warp-6. The reason I disregarded it at the time was because with my inferior handling of the situation, I did not save any time, and assumed it was not an improvement. However, I am more experienced now, and know that it should be easy to hit Jump + Kill simultaneously, as is necessary for the 1st guard in Level 18. This would allow the running jump animations to occur during "free time." This will cut the hallway time dramatically, by requiring only the beginning of a running motion, or the early frames of the standing jump to immediately reach the finish line. I think I'll try to make a new Level 20 recording tonight to demonstrate this. This would be an improvement for any "kill button" route, including FGT & GT1. Another thing worth discussing -- I think it's important to hit the Select Menu when the Prince "crosses the finish line," so there's a real frame count. Otherwise, it's impossible to visually confirm the end, as you cannot see the Prince behind the curtain to confirm spacing, timing, or any lag. Despite all this, however, my GT1 world record is more than 3.5 seconds faster, at 8:26.216, and I suspect the TAS for the GT1 route could possibly break 8:20. But it's nice to see that Fat Gate Thief got a good send-off with a fantastic sub-8:30!!!

Posted: 4/23/2021 6:55 AM

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Akuma

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I figured out that this route used for the "blind" game genie run can also be used for the "no GT" route. In the "blind" route, I did the quick step off the ledge, jump & u-turn before the single-up exit. I figured out that if you do the faster dead fall + jump & single crouch + turn & grab before the single-up exit, this gets rid of the "blind" corruption when you warp to level 4. So it is faster on all counts, has no video corruption, and works perfectly for Warp-16 with no clock bug. Also, this setup is about 17 seconds faster than an optimal execution of the old "no GT" route, as seen in my 11:10 video. In other words, with no other improvements, this could bring the "no GT" route down to 10:53. In that run, I did not do the U-Turn under the crusher in Level 4, and was about 10 seconds off TAS pace in level 19. So I suspect something approaching 10:40 will be possible for humans on the 4/16 non-GT route.

Posted: 4/21/2021 12:47 AM

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Akuma

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Challenger, if you are able to do a test run on this route with the Game Genie Code, and find a way for this 6/4 sprite to access Warp-16 Checkpoint, let me know! :) I'd love to make another video that's 40 seconds faster. haha.

Posted: 4/20/2021 11:51 PM

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Akuma

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wow. My math was off by quite a bit. So I just made a new demo of this Game Genie "No Gates" route, and got an 8:06.14936. (29,217 console frames.) I guess it really is best to record that demo before making projections! lol. There were a lot of time saves I forgot about. So here's the basic run-down, comparing my GT1 video (8:26) with the new "No Gates" video (8:06). setup + warp-4 = 36.951 seconds saved (simplified setup) level 4 = 12.457 seconds saved (better route) level 5 = 7.853 seconds saved (better route) level 16 = 44.134 seconds lost (full level, instead of checkpoint) level 17 = 3.818 seconds saved (no warp lag) level 18 = 0.750 seconds saved (no GT1 lag) level 19 = 1.911 seconds saved (better route) level 20 should be the same. this is about 63.79 seconds saved, against 44.13 seconds lost, for a net savings of 19.6 seconds over the GT1 route. I found about 100 frames of minor errors in my new video, so this means I should be able to get an 8:04.9 with a really good run. And with TAS maintaining a 4-5 second edge, it might be able to get VERY close to a 7:59.9. Anyway, this probably won't get any TAS work, since it requires a Game Genie code. But I thought it'd be fun to check it out. I will upload the video now, and post a link here shortly. ------------ Game Genie - No Gates - Warp-16 - 8:06.14936 Link to video 29,217 console frames = 486.149361447619 seconds.

Posted: 4/20/2021 9:12 AM

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Akuma

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i have a giant picture of all the levels of Prince of Persia (SNES) put together into one big map. For fun, I took a reduced size screen-shot of part of it, to illustrate how crazy Warp-16 is. (Follow the Yellow Line!)

Posted: 4/20/2021 7:16 AM
(Edited: 4/20/2021 9:50 PM)

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Akuma

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I thought of a fun alternate speedrun route. If you do guard exit, then single-up exit + quick level zero exit, you get the warp-6 sprite set + kill button in just 45 seconds, and reach level 4 after just 80 seconds total. This is an improvement of about 18 seconds over the current "no gate skip" warp-16 route. The difference is, this particular setup will cause Blind Level 4. And since there are no Princess Bedroom scenes until Level 20, and no break in action, this means Levels 5, 16, 17, 18, and 19 will also be in Blind Mode! Theoretically, this means the No Gate Skip route could be done in under 11 minutes "easily." But here comes my interesting idea -- How about a Game Genie speedrun, where I use No Gates code (this will start the game with Gate Thief ability, even though the Prince sprite is normal). This would essentially follow the GT1 Warp-16 Route, demonstrated in my new video, above. The only difference would be that the setup is faster, and the vast majority of the run is "Dark," to be a fun challenge. I think I may do this next, and see how far I can get. One major difference to keep in mind, is that the Game Genie code allows for ultra-fast Level 4 route, to jump through the middle gate without visiting the first guard. However, some time would be lost at the big drop, since the gate will not make contact, and you will be stuck on the ground for 2.3 seconds, due to stun. (In my No Gates demo video, I also used Invincibility Mode, but that would not be available in a speedrun.) I suspect this theoretical route would be about 36 seconds faster than the above GT1 route to reach level 4, and maybe 11 seconds faster on level 4, putting a perfect performance around 7:45.000. Having a shorter, less tedious setup, but more nail-biting "Blind" action could make for a good video. I can imagine the logs on Level 17, and all the jumps on Level 18 will prove quite difficult. While I have memorized Levels 4, 5, 16, & 19, I don't know if I'll be able to get very far into Level 18 without some serious new practice. EDIT -- I've hit a snag here. Under normal circumstances, whenever you are hanging on a ledge below a closed gate, and attempt to climb up and get denied by the closed gate, one of two things can happen, depending upon how you fell and grabbed the ledge: either you will fall closer to the wall, or farther away from the wall. We were always careful to do the correct approach for the Warp-16 hole, so that after climbing up into the closed gate, and being forced back down, we always got the variation where the Prince fell farther away from the wall, and this allowed the good Warp-16. However, the No Gates Code causes the Prince to ALWAYS fall close to the wall after being stuffed by the closed gate. (The No Gates Code does not prevent ALL gate interactions -- you still cannot climb up into a closed gate.) So this eliminates the "good" warp-16 I was hoping for. So far, the only way I can find to warp is to do the Fast Drop, as we have been doing on level 5a for the FGT route (which does a Logo Reset). However, for this 6/4 sprite set, a fast drop warps to the Beginning of Level 16, not the checkpoint. I absolutely cannot find a different way to do it. Everything else is a No Warp, or Logo Reset for a strange shaking version of FGT. So, this theoretical "Blind" run I imagined must warp to the beginning of Level 16. Compared to the GT1 route, this loses about 40.5 seconds (taking into consideration the worse lag for GT1 on levels 16 and 17), bringing my projection back up to 8:25.5, and therefore, probably not faster than the GT1 route. But then I remembered one more thing! No Gates means no need to fall down in the 2nd room of Level 5. This saves another full 7 seconds, and puts this fun run back on track to be faster than the official route by at least 2-3 seconds! Add to this the further benefit of doing the full level 16 in the Dark as a bonus challenge, and I think I've got myself an excellent project to work on next, shooting for a sub 8:20. So to sum it all up -- Using the Game Genie's "No Gates" Code, and doing a very simple setup gets the Prince on a quick start to Level 4. After the Level 4 Warp, the No Gates Code allows for big time savings at the Mid Gate on Level 4, as well as big savings in the 2nd room of Level 5. Further, without any big lag, massive time is saved after the Level 16 Checkpoint, as well as the beginning of Level 17. But counting against all this time saved (simplified setup, Level 4 shortcut, Level 5 improved, Levels 16 & 17 lag reduction), we have to add big time for playing the first half of Level 16. Joyously, the savings slightly outweighs the cost, and this fun theoretical "In The Dark" route should be a few seconds faster than the official GT1 route.

Posted: 4/17/2021 9:30 PM

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Akuma

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Alright, here's the video. 8:26.216313219. Good demo for the route. Gate Thief #1 -- Warp-16 Route -- 8:26.216313. Link to video 30,423 console frames = 506.216313219 seconds.

Posted: 4/17/2021 9:55 AM

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Akuma

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Gadzooks! I got a worthy World Record tonight, which I will publish and submit. No major mistakes, but I lost about a second from small (single animation) mistakes here and there. The total was 30,423 console frames, which is 8:26.216313219 in real time. I will need to save 14 frames to get an 8:25.983, and break the 8:26 barrier. One positive note is that I broke my Individual Level Record on level 20 here, getting a 1684, 1 frame better than my published level 20 video. The difference is the new trick during the Jaffar fight, where I cause the Prince to jump up, getting a little bit closer to the finish line. It should have been 2 frames better, but I guess there was an extra lag frame somewhere. Never can predict those. I don't think I will be trying for an 8:24. It would probably require a perfect level 17, which is not going to happen with all that lag. The logs are too risky, and the lag keeps coming and going completely inconsistently in those first few rooms, making it extremely difficult to maintain perfect timing and spacing. And besides that, I'd basically have to be PERFECT on every segment throughout the speedrun to reach 8:24. That won't happen either. So I'll be happy with an 8:25.x, if I can manage it. Will post the 8:26.2 tomorrow.

Posted: 4/16/2021 6:13 PM

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Akuma

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I made an interesting discovery this morning. I'll need to do it a few more times to confirm, but it appears that the "correct" u-turn and climb down on level 5 does not fix the Clock Bug if you do the "Better" Human GT1 setup (no button scramble). Perhaps either way is ok with the button scramble setup, but with the Human setup, only the late U-turn with Gate Collision fixes the Clock Bug. I just did the exact same setup from the above video, twice in a row, with the good u-turn, step, and climb down, and both times, the Clock Bug was present in Level 16. Therefore, it would appear that I cannot count on the 15-16 frames of savings I expected. So this will make a sub-8:25 that much more difficult. I'll have to be very fast on the select menu exits, and very clean on the levels, no mistakes. Challenge Accepted!

Posted: 4/16/2021 7:48 AM

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Akuma

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So, I've solved the question of the best Setup. For Humans, it is obviously faster to do the "Better" GT1 setup, to avoid button scrambling. A human will require 1.5 seconds to reset buttons. However, since the TAS only requires 14-16 frames to reset buttons, it is faster for the TAS to allow button scrambling, with the alternate setup. The TAS saves 4 frames with a standing-jump to the 1a guard exit, and saves another 16 frames with a crouch to the panel in 1b. Although I noticed that this segment was done even 23 frames faster using the FGT route spacing (dead stop off ledge, turn & jump, single crouch & turn) -- I'm not sure whether Challenger intentionally avoided that method, or simply forgot. At any rate, the TAS will save either 4 or 27 frames by allowing the button scrambling. So that will be a notable difference between the TAS route and the Human route. ---- Gate Thief #1 -- Warp 16 Route -- 8:28.5957.. Link to video 30,566 console frames = 508.5957278984 seconds.

Posted: 4/16/2021 6:10 AM
(Edited: 4/17/2021 8:26 AM)

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Akuma

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woohoo! New world record tonight, using new GT1 Warp-16 route. Unfortunately, I had 1 stupid mistake, that cost 2.26 seconds (took falling damage on level 18), so I'm not going to submit it. But this is a good baseline for showing that the FGT TAS route is now officially obsoleted. I got an 8:28.607, almost a full 3 seconds faster than the FGT TAS route. Once I tidy up the run, I should be looking at an easy sub-8:25. TAS will probably be somewhere around 8:21. Unless we find a couple more tricks, I don't think a sub-8:20 will be possible. But how many times have I said that in the past 3 weeks? haha. I'll post up this new run later tonight, along with stats, and preliminary TAS projection.

Posted: 4/10/2021 8:36 PM

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Akuma

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If I do the optimal movements during the first segment (guard exit), the glitch doesn't work. It'll look like it's going to work, but give me the bad Static Sword sprite every time. Also, Select & Exit must be done in the Guard Room, not in the previous room. If not, a different glitch happens. In the second segment, it seems like it may be ok to do the glitch exit on either the 2nd or 3rd fall. I've been doing it on the 3rd fall, because it seems to work more frequently that way. But it still doesn't happen very often. Most times, I get the bad Static Sword sprite, and have to try again. The Level Zero exit needs to be done just before the Prince sprite turns into a Guard Sprite. I don't know if the timing is frame perfect, or random. It seems like I do the exact same thing over and over again, but still never know whether it worked or not until after the Logo Reset. Note -- in this demo, I paused maybe 2 frames before the blue Guard Sprite came on-screen. An alternate method will need to be found in order to gain immediate access to Level 1 with the GT#3 sprite. Otherwise, it will not be fast enough. GT#3 setup + Warp-16 demo -- Link to video

Posted: 4/10/2021 8:06 PM

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Akuma

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I made a demo of Gate Thief #3 today. Being similar to GT#1, he is also able to access Warp-16 with this alternate turn & climb down. The benefit of Gate Thief #3 had always been the very short setup. Step 1, exit at Guard. Step 2, do a trick at the first hole. This trick causes a Logo Reset, but even with the extra 24 seconds, it's still very fast. The reason I never used it is because even though the setup gives GT#3 such a huge head stead, GT#1 would eventually catch up and surpass #3 over the course of a Warp-8 run, for example. It occurred to me this morning that given the shorter length of the Warp-16 route, GT#1 might not have enough time to catch up to GT#3. The major problem still remains that I do not know if it is possible to manipulate the GT#3 setup in order to access Level 1 quickly, like this new discovery you made for GT#1. If GT#3 can be made to access Level 1 quickly, it may be pretty close. My preliminary demo is in two parts -- first the setup for GT#3, and going to level 1 immediately (and dying on the first gate). The second segment is GT#3 successfully entering Level 1, and playing through to Warp-4 and Warp-16, and completing Level 17. Between these, I used a Debug Jump to Level 7, for a quick trick. I am again running into the issue of the Clock Bug on Level 16, for GT#3. I had to finish Level 16 with extra lag, and then do a restart at Level 17, which cost 6 seconds to start Level 17 again. After all this, GT#3 reaches Level 18 about 10 seconds faster than FGT. But this was the time we are initially projecting for GT#1. So unless the Clock Bug can be fixed to reduce lag, and unless there can be a very fast way of changing the setup to allow immediate access to Level 1, I'm afraid GT#3 simply does not have enough time to stay ahead of GT#1. GT#1 is MILES better than GT#3 on levels 18 and 19. I'll post the GT#3 segments here, in case you're interested in playing around with it.

Posted: 4/10/2021 9:07 AM

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Akuma

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Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 269

So I just did a test recording. I did the better GT#1 setup, so it is not necessary to access Option menu to reset scrambled buttons. I suppose for the TAS it'll remain to be seen whether this different setup costs too much time, since TAS will only need about 12-14 extra frames to reset buttons. The U-turn on level 5 appears to be the thing that fixes the clock bug on level 16. Even if you accidentally initiate the U-turn a frame too late, and collide with the gate, you can still turn, grab the ledge facing right, and climb up to reset your position before climbing down to the glitch. I did this in my recording, and was only 15 frames slower than your test for the whole level. I have also done the U-turn correctly, and stepped to the edge. This also fixed the clock bug, as was expected. Because the Konami Logo reset is avoided, level 16 is reached at least 20 seconds faster than FGT route. However, massive lag in level 16 costs about 11.4 seconds. Lag continues to be a bad issue for the first few rooms of level 17, but in my experience, this will not cost more than a couple more seconds. So this GT#1 route should easily be close to 10 seconds faster than FGT route once level 1 is cleaned up. Also, my test recording tonight for the full game was 8:42.4, including tons and tons of horrendous mistakes. LOL. I need to get another recording with a good level 17, to track the remaining lag. Then I should be able to put together a good Projection. But first, BED TIME!!!

Posted: 4/10/2021 6:24 AM

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Akuma

Experienced Forum User

Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 269

hmm, combining my best GT#1 on level 4 with the other segments of your new test, we are arriving at level 16 in 3:11, a full 20 seconds faster than the FGT Route we've been working with. I can imagine another few seconds can be saved with optimized movements on levels 1 & 5. So, wow. Looks like you just obsoleted the FGT route. haha.

Posted: 4/9/2021 11:17 AM

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Akuma

Experienced Forum User

Joined: 12/26/2018
Posts: 269

I did a simple calculation for possible speedrun time for me, if I try another run. The World Record video was 31,242 frames. If we include the 180 frame improvements for 5b thru 16, and 53 frame improvements for level 4, and avoid the one mistake I made, 20 frames lost, that would bring a comparable run down to 30,989 = 8:35.634136355... and 22 frames clear of 8:36. It seems I should work on this next, and see if I can implement all of the new tricks, and achieve an 8:35.x.

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