Here's the improved Level 17. I saved 8 frames in the first half with better jumping patterns. And I saved 26 lag frames by killing the Monster as soon as possible, rather than allowing him to jump up into the air first. This recording is 34 frames better than the previous recording, and the 2 time units saved was enough to bring the game clock down to 209, which displays "0:29" on-screen.
I've also recorded the improvement to the Gate Thief #1 Setup (Level 1 segment). It is an improvement of 52 frames, by using the Sound Menu to play a shorter sound at the end of the stage, thus spawning the password box sooner. This trick should be legal, as it is in the same spirit as the tactic employed in the DOS version of the game, where speedrunners disable sound to skip the "end of level" music, and proceed to the next level quicker.
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Gate Thief #1 -- Level 17 -- 0:29 -- 209 time units.
Link to video
1,841 console frames = 30.63288408888888888 seconds.
--
Gate Thief #1 -- Setup -- Level 1 Segment -- 34.643 seconds.
Link to video
2,082 console frames = 34.64294659047619 seconds.
Here's the time table for levels in the Gate Thief #1 "All 20 Levels" speedrun:
I'll add a double star (**) next to levels I think might have another small improvement that needs to be looked at.
Setup (Level 1 + Glitches) -- 5,132 console frames.
Level 2 (Alt. Route + Lag) -- 4,159 console frames.
Level 3 -- 5,506.
Level 4 -- 3,024.
Level 5 -- 3,196.
Level 6 -- 2,724.
Level 7 -- 3,026.
Level 8 -- 4,398.
Level 9 -- 3,037.
Level 10 - 4,801.
Level 11 - 3,309.
Level 12 - 1,857.
Level 13 - 5,902. **
Level 14 - 3,537.
Level 15 - 2,514.
Level 16 - 4,021.
Level 17 - 1,841.
Level 18 - 7,373.
Level 19 - 4,999.
Level 20 - 1,685.
Play Time: 76,041 console frames.
Transitions: 6,886 console frames.
Grand Total: 82,927 console frames = 22:59.8442036063492063492...,
I'm expecting to lose something like a half second on each level with imperfect play and slight hesitation on transitions. But if the setup and first couple of levels are very tight, I think there's a good chance I could manage to squeak under the 23:20 mark.
As far as the game clock goes, the best passwords seen in each of my videos call for a total of 8,075 time units elapsed by the beginning of Level 20. Since the number 8,075 is divisible by 425, this is EXACTLY 19 minutes on the game clock. So the Select Menu on Level 20 will show "101:00," although a few time units in either direction will still show this figure.
I would expect when I complete a very good speedrun, I will probably lose at least 30 time units. 8,105 would show "100:56" on the select menu during Level 20, for example.
There's still the trouble with Level 11. All these preceding figures assume getting one of the good Fire Patterns, and my experience with full speedruns so far is that I will probably not get a good one, and have to hesitate on that part of the level, losing something between 0.5 and 1 second, which may be another 7 time units lost.
Since Level 11 is one of the major bottlenecks to a full speedrun, I'm going to turn my attention back to that level for a while, and see which Fire Patterns may seem most likely encountered. After that, I may amend these figures slightly.
At any rate, this is all a very nice glance at the human limit. Once I start grinding it out, we'll see just how close one can get to perfection.
Edit: I just realized I forgot to upgrade Level 3 main route to 1080p60. I'll do that in the next couple days, and update the list above if the frame count is improved.
Edit: next day, I found major improvements to Level 17 (34 frames), and the Gate Thief Setup (Level 1, 52 frames). This brings the projection down to 83,008 frames, and the stats have been adjusted above, accordingly. I will need to reach 82,996 in order to break 23:01. It's hard to say whether there are enough improvements to find in levels 9 and 13. I think 8 frames saved may be the limit, but 12 may be possible. I'll post up videos for Setup (Level 1 segment) and Level 17 tomorrow. Then I'll work on re-recording Level 3 in 1080p60.
Edit: Level 3 recorded! 9 frames improved. stats updated. will post video in new post.
Edit: updated level 9, and corrected level 13 stats. I still need to test level 13 for additional savings. However, now that level 9 has produced over 1 second in savings, and brought the projection safely below the 23 minute mark, I am temporarily shifting my priorities to other things before I return to level 13.
So, for a simple projection of a full speedrun of "All 20 Levels" with the Gate Thief #1 scrambled sprite set, I have two sets of times.
One is the actual time playing the levels, which is the first frame of a level until the first frame of Select Menu during "End of Level" music at the end of each level.
The other is the transition time from one level to the next. This would be counted from the first frame of Select Menu at the end of the previous level, until the first frame of the next level.
For the transition times, I am using the absolute fastest time. As far as I can tell, these cannot be improved under normal circumstances.
1) transitions with a scene of the Princess's Bedroom: 440 frames.
2) transitions without a scene: 346 frames.
Since I account for the "Setup" of glitches to acquire the Gate Thief #1 sprite set as taking all of the time from the first frame of the speedrun until the first frame of Level 2 WITH the Gate Thief sprite set, there is no transition time to count for levels 1 and 2. Therefore, there will be 18 transitions to cover: 7 transitions with Princess scenes, and 11 transitions without.
(7 x 440) + (11 x 346) = 3,080 + 3,806 = 6,886 frames. (114.5779684 seconds.)
The remainder of the time will come simply from counting up the wonderful time trial totals I've posted in the previous videos for each individual level. I'll add those up tonight, and provide an easy list to show how long the full speedrun should take with no mistakes.
It's a good thing I saved level 2 for last. (The last individual level for Gate Thief #1 sprite set that needs to be upgraded to 1080p60 HD video.)
This will be quite a project. I've devised a new route to minimize lag. The original video was 4040 console frames = 67.2226245 seconds. I've found that there's about 28 frames to be saved by improving execution, which should eventually bring the total down to 4012. In the meantime, I'm focusing on an alternate setup for the speedrun, since lag is such a big issue immediately after the glitch has been initialized.
In the "Best Setup" video, posted previously, there were 160 lag frames in the first three rooms, resulting from the glitch initialization.
In the new test video I made today, the alternate route costs 27 frames (this is 24 frames = 6 extra animations, for slower route, + 3 lag frames associated with extra falling panel). But besides this, the new total glitch lag in the first three rooms is reduced to 102 lag frames.
58 lag frames saved, minus 27 frames lost = net 31 frames saved in the first 3 rooms. It appears that this trick does not affect the extra lag observed in the room with the 2nd guard.
This should give me the following targets:
4011 frames -- original route, no lag.
4039 frames -- alternate route, no lag.
4159 frames -- alternate route, with lag.
(4190 frames -- theoretical best original route, with lag.)
My previous estimation of Level 2 (with lag) for the "all 20 levels" projection was 4,232; this new estimation could cut that by 74 frames, which would take an astonishing 1.23 seconds off the "all 20 levels" projection.
I will endeavor to make videos for all 3 of the top targets listed above. But it will be quite a grind. Especially difficult for the "Lag" video, since it can only be attempted after the full 2 minute setup has been performed each time.
Edit: WooHoo!!! I got the alternate route (no lag) video recorded. 4,039 frames!
Edit: I got the main route done today also. And it was 4,011 frames, 1 frame faster than projected. Not only that, but I recorded 4011 twice. So now I have to decide which video I'd rather upload. This is the craziest thing. The latest improvements to the route saved 6 animations = 24 frames. AND I saved 5 more frames, which could be better lag, or could be a 7th animation. Either way, this should by definition be an automatic 3 time unit improvement upon the game clock, because 2 animations = 1 time unit. However, despite saving 6 or 7 animations, (absolutely confirmed), the clock only improved by 2 time units. It's beyond explanation. At any rate, the new 472 password brings the displayed game clock time down to 1:06, which is worthy of celebration! I've just uploaded the better video, so I'll post the link below.
Edit: I got the lag video done as well. It came in at 4,159 frames! That's the Level 2 segment. The video also includes the setup immediately before Level 2. So this is the best I've seen for the Level 2 segment, and confirms approximate lag associated with glitch activation: +102 in the first two rooms, and +18 (17 glitch lag, and 1 random lag) in the room with the 2nd guard.
With this video completed, I can officially give a final projection for the Gate Thief #1 speedrun route for "All 20 Levels", including setup. I think I will list that in the next post.
--
Gate Thief #1 -- Level 2 -- 1:06 -- 472 time units -- main route.
Link to video
4,011 console frames = 66.74008586666666666 seconds.
--
Gate Thief #1 -- Level 2 -- 1:07 -- 475 time units -- alternate speedrun route.
Link to video
4,039 console frames = 67.2059852444444444444 seconds.
--
Gate Thief #1 -- Level 2 -- 1:07 -- 475 time units -- alt route + real lag.
Link to video
4,159 console frames = 69.2026968 634920 634920... seconds.
--
I've updated some more levels!
Level 14, Regular and Invincibility; and Level 11. (edit: and level 6) (edit: and level 5) (edit: and level 4, lol.)
I'm a bit confused by the Level 11 Fire Pattern RNG. When I was recording this Level 11 video, I got the same Fire Pattern (seen in the video) many, many, many times, whenever I was confident that I had performed the level perfectly. However, whenever I do a full speedrun, I seem to always get something different, no matter what I do. Much more testing will be needed before I'm ready to grind the "All 20 Levels" full speedrun. But I'm thinking I probably just have to be prepared for anything, which means being ready to stop and wait.
For Level 14, both routes were slightly improved with better jumps in the long hallway. And this time, I used Real Invincibility Mode for the big fall, so you can really see how much time is saved (it's 128 frames, a little over 2 seconds better, compared to the regular route.)
Level 14 regular route saved 10 frames over the previous video, bringing the "all 20 levels" projection down to 83,230 console frames = 23:04.885900444456324.
Edit, next day: I did Level 6 today, and will add it here. 14 frames saved, brings projection down to 83,216 console frames = 23:04.65295075555555555¯.
Edit, next next day: Level 5 is done, with 36 frames saved. I did the same trick from Level 1, using the kill button to kill the guard while he is attacking, which delays his death, and somehow removes all lag from the next room. This is especially important in Level 5, because the room after the Patio must be traversed twice (coming back through after jumping into mirror). About 16 lag frames are saved in the first pass, and another 10-12 lag frames saved in the second pass. Besides this, I improved execution by 4-8 frames to get a better password. 368 time units on the game clock, official time is 3,196 console frames = 53.17908612 seconds. This 36 frame save again lowers the "all 20 levels" projection to 83,180 console frames = 23:04.053937 269841 269841¯. I've got 2 more levels to record: levels 2 & 4. I'll need to find a way to save 4 more frames in order to break the 23:04 mark.
Edit, next next next day: Got a new record on Level 4. Tightened up some jumps, and got the better password for 353 time units. Also, 3 animations faster, which is a 12 frame improvement. Unfortunately, I caught an extra lag frame somewhere, so only 11 frames improved over the previous video, now at 3,024 console frames, which is 50.3171328000 0000000000 0000000000 0000000000 seconds, exactly. This was enough to bring the "all 20 levels" projection below 23:04, now down to 83,169 console frames = 23:03.8709053714285714285.
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Gate Thief #1 - Level 11 - 0:56 - 394 time units.
Link to video
3309 console frames = 55.059322895 seconds.
--
Gate Thief #1 - Level 14 - 0:57 - 404 time units.
Link to video
3537 console frames = 58.853074971429 seconds.
--
Gate Thief #1 - Level 14 - Invincibility Route - 393 time units.
Link to video
3,409 console frames = 56.723249244444931 seconds.
--
Gate Thief #1 - Level 6 - 0:45 - 315 time units.
Link to video
2,724 console frames = 45.32535375238095238 seconds.
--
Gate Thief #1 - Level 5 - 0:52 - 368 time units.
Link to video
3,196 console frames = 53.17908612 seconds.
--
Gate Thief #1 - Level 4 - 0:50 - 353 time units.
Link to video
3,025 console frames = 50.3171328 seconds.
oh man! This one was tough! I'm so proud. This is the latest update for Gate Thief #1, Level 19. I saved every possible animation frame, and finally executed every trick perfectly. The official frame count is 4,999 and 528 time units on the game clock. There were a few unfortunate lag frames that I can't really do anything about. This was a big improvement. Yesterday, I saved 41 frames over the old video (posted here, several pages ago), and saved another 7 frames today to get the absolute perfect video!
One notable improvement was made to the route, for human players. In the next-to-last room, I had been running to the wall, turning, and doing a manual delay to get the absolute perfect jump under the gate. But with this new route, I can simply jump to the wall, turn immediately, and run. With the right timing on the jump over the spikes, the Prince gets the absolute perfect timing under the gate. Doing a frame perfect jump is much easier than a frame perfect delay on turn-around.
This brings the "All 20 Levels" projection down to 83,240 frames = 23:05.052293, just 4 frames shy of breaking 23:05. I'm confident I'll save that many on my next video, which will probably be Level 14. Stay Tuned!
Gate Thief #1 -- Level 19 -- 1:14 -- 528 -- 4999.
Link to video
4999 console frames = 83.17967819682611 seconds.
The video quoted above (japanese tas), posted back on page 3 of this thread, inspired me to see how fast I could beat the game, but I wanted to do it without a password. The idea of using a Level 20 password to skip to the end of the game is just inherently inappropriate for speedrunning. Technically, using Debug Menu to jump to level 20 is equally inappropriate. But that's what I wanted to do. Just for fun.
I used a quick warp 8 to unlock Debug Mode without using a password, and also jumped to Level 20 without using a Level 20 password. So in that regard, I consider this to be an improvement on the original idea. I setup the video with the standard speedrun "proof" at the beginning, showing that debug mode is not active on startup (no kill button), and no saved states (no alternate passwords stored, and no best times).
Time begins on first frame of level 1 (01:23.0547145) and ends on first frame of select menu after prince crosses the finish line (02:06.4332744). Official time is 43.3785599238 seconds, which equals 2607 console frames.
So this is how you beat the game in less than 44 seconds without using any saved states or passwords:
Beating Prince of Persia SNES in under 44 seconds.
Link to video
Official time: 43.3785599238 seconds = 2607 console frames.
Welcome to Page 11!
I first discovered "Invincibility Mode" while testing the Warp to Level 6, which we've documented previously in this thread.
It appears that Invincibility can only be activated by way of a warp glitch. It only remains active while you are in the game. If you exit out to the main menu, it goes away. One characteristic of activating Invincibility Mode is that your bottle count is automatically raised to 15. If you exit, and lose Invincibility mode, you will still have 15 bottles when you "Continue", because the stored password contains a modifier for 15 bottles.
I demonstrated in an early test run for Level 13 that you can use Debug Menu to survive a big fall by pausing on the frame of impact, and selecting "Boost Meter." The game does not check until the next frame to see if all of your health is gone. Since "Boost Meter" replenishes all health, the game determines that you did not die, and you may continue to play under certain conditions.
If you do this trick on the frame of impact with spikes, chompers, crushers, or firewalls, you will survive, but become permanently stuck in position, as your sprite set has been shifted to an immovable death pose. Thus, even though you didn't die, the game is essentially frozen, and you need to exit to Main Menu.
(Of course, if you have Debug Menu activated, you can use the Level Jump command to go to a different level. This will allow you to continue playing with Invincibility Mode. As long as you don't go back to Main Menu, you shouldn't lose Invincibility Mode.)
For big falls, you have to be next to a wall when you land, so that the Prince will be forced to jump up to a standing position. If not near a wall, you will shift to the death pose, and remain alive but frozen on the ground.
So Invincibility Mode Routes are only available in levels where certain pits allow you to land next to a wall, and where it actually makes sense to go that way.
When I discovered that Invincibility Mode was being activated by some of these Warp Setups, I noted that it behaved exactly the same as these manual Boost Meter commands. But all this is only one feature of Invincibility Mode. These are the lethal hits. And there are actually multiple types of Invincibility Mode, depending on how many of these lethal hits you can survive. I call them Invincibility Mode 0, 1, or 2.
The other feature of Invincibility Mode is non-lethal hits. For all Invincibility Modes, you can sustain an infinite number of non-lethal hits, like falling 2 levels down, or being swatted by a guard while you are holding your sword.
But for Invincibility Mode 0, that is your only benefit. Any lethal hits will kill you as in normal circumstances.
For Invincibility Mode 1, you can survive one fatal hit, but as I said before, this is only beneficial for a big fall against a wall. Basically every other lethal hit situation will freeze you in place, with no recourse but to exit. (Or Jump to another level with Debug Menu, as I said before.)
For Invincibility Mode 2, you can survive 2 fatal hits, and the 3rd fatal hit will kill you.
For both Invincibility Modes 1 & 2, if you use up your allotted fatal hits for the level, and drink a Big Potion, you will reset the counter, and again have 1 or 2 more fatal hits to survive. Additionally, if you use "Boost Meter" command, you will reset the fatal hits counter.
There are some glitchy semi-invincible modes you can activate with bad warp setups, which can offer protection from 1 lethal hit, but then break the health meter, so that you are no longer invincible after surviving that fatal hit. I mention this in passing, because it's rare to accidentally activate a glitchy semi-invincibility mode.
----
I have documented the easiest instance of activating Invincibility Mode 1. This can be accessed by any sprite set. All you have to do is go to level 8, and do the drop glitch at the specified location. You can see me perform this glitch in my first Gate Thief #1 speedrun, which involved a warp to level 6, and activated Invincibility on level 8. I'll repost that video below, for reference.
Invincibility Mode 2 is, as far as I can tell, only accessible when performing a clean warp to level 6 or 8 under certain advanced (complex) setups. I have created setups for Invincibility Mode 2 with the Normal Prince sprite set for warps to levels 6 and 8, and for Gate Thief #1 for warps to levels 6 and 8. I believe I also have created setups for Gate Thief #2, but I'm not sure. The initial setup for Gate Thief #2 is impractical for a clean speedrun, so I've only been using it for individual level runs, for fun. I'll repost the Warp 6 + INV2 video below as well.
--
Finally, I must say, the only really important place to save time with Invincibility Mode during an actual speedrun is on Level 14. I'll repost the video link here, so you can see where I survive the Big Fall, and instantly skip to the end of the level. There's another fun place to do a Big Fall on Level 3, which saves a few seconds. I'll post that one as well, for reference.
This provides a good illustration for both of the situations I've discussed. In the level 14 video, I use Debut Menu & Boost Meter Command on the impact frame. While on level 3, I actually have Invincibility Mode activated.
For the Warp to Level 6 with Invincibility Mode 2 video below, notice when fighting the Woman, I allowed her to swat me 20 times, which exceeds the maximum number of hits on the standard health meter. After that, I instantly killed her with the "Kill Button." Afterwards, I further demonstrated the interesting scenario where a falling panel can knock you out of your death pose on the spikes. I then got myself stuck on another set of spikes to show that I could indeed survive 2 fatal hits, although of course the second time, I got stuck!
While I'm providing this all-in-one post about Invincibility Mode, I might as well repost one of the fun applications. I made some Game Genie videos for a couple of levels. On Level 4, I input the "gateless" code, and also activated invincibility mode, so I could run through gates, and do a Big Fall to absolutely destroy the level!
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Edit: since this post, I updated the Level 14 video to HD + Real Invincibility. I will keep the old Level 14 link below, since "simulating Invincibility with Debug Menu" was part of the conversation. Doing the same trick with real invincibility mode can be seen at bottom.
--
Level 8, activating Invincibility Mode 1, skip to 5:30.
Skip to 11:10 to see Level 13 Big Fall.
Skip to 13:40 to see Level 14 Big Fall.
Link to video
Glitch Setup for Warp to Level 6 with Invincibility Mode 2.
Link to video
Level 14 Invincibility Route, skip to 0:55. (Manual Debug Input)
Link to video
Level 3 Invincibility Route, skip to 1:10.
Link to video
Level 4, Game Genie + Invincibility, skip to 0:30.
Link to video
Level 14, Real Invincibility, skip to 0:55.
Link to video
I've been very busy lately, and not much time for working on my "all 20 levels" speedrun. But as I've had a little time here and there, I've been continuing to play individual levels, to make sure I don't get rusty, and I've had a few chances to update individual level videos when the route has been improved, and the video is in need of upgrading to 1080p 60 fps.
Since my last post here, when I shared the new Level 10 video, I've recorded new videos for levels 7, 8, 18, with recordings improving the frame count by 33, 23, and 24 frames respectively. So 80 frames saved is more than a second taken off the projection, which currently sits at 83,431 frames = 23:08.2303924.
With the way I've been playing, it seems I'm only losing about 6-8 seconds over the course of an entire 20 level run, when no major mistakes occur. So it would seem that something below 23:20 is very likely, whenever I finally do it.
In the meantime, the new videos for levels 7, 8, and 18 are linked below. I will make a couple of quick notes here:
For level 7, the main improvement was hitting the kill button immediate upon entry into the room with the Ghost. This cuts down on lag in the room, the same way I reduced lag by quickly killing the first guard at the beginning of the level.
For level 8, a different approach to the mid gate allowed for a quicker jump down the hole. You will notice while the Select Menu was up for the End of Level Music, the clock said 118:47 (-1:13). But the password box showed 1:14. This is because I was just 1 time unit short of getting a 1:13 displayed time. I'm not sure if I have the ability to save one more time unit. The only other save I can imagine is a quicker jump through the last gate, after waiting for it to open. Of course, if I jump too soon, I collide with the gate, so it's very risky. I don't know how much more time I can save there, but I can confirm that this time I was 1 animation frame faster than in the previous video, so that accounted for some of the improvement.
For Level 18, real time can be lost if you pause for too long during the Boss Music, and game time can be lost if you don't pause for long enough. It's all about feel, and I'm definitely getting good at it. But there's still a little bit of real time that could be saved over this recording, if I had unpaused just 1 animation frame sooner. Nevertheless, only about 1 in 10 best attempts gets below 863, so I think this excellent recording will be a good enough example for the route potential.
Edit: since this is the last post of Page 10, I'll stick the updated Level 15 video here as well. 96 frames saved optimizing select menu at boss, and 8 frames saved through improved execution of jumps. However, the game clock did not change, which is odd. 8 frames should be enough to change the password. so perhaps there was a mistake I didn't notice. But either way, saving 104 frames improves the "all 20 levels" projection significantly. Taking all 4 of these levels into account, the new projection is 23 minutes, and 6.4999 seconds. This means 23:15 may be within my grasp when I finally complete a full speedrun.
Edit: I'll add the updated Level 9 video here as well, since this post was made just a few days ago. Saved 39 frames over previous recording, which updates "All 20 Levels" projection to 83,288 console frames = 23:05.850977726996. The new Level 9 video is 3110 console frames = 51.7481094603179 seconds. I think I messed up the final jump, so there may be a possibility of saving a few more frames, if I try again. We'll see. Also of note, 2 time units were saved, enough to change the displayed game clock time to "45" seconds!
--
Gate Thief #1 -- Level 7 -- 0:50 -- 354 time units.
Link to video
3,026 console frames = 50.35041132698455889 seconds.
--
Gate Thief #1 -- Level 8 -- 1:14 -- 523 time units.
Link to video
4,398 console frames = 73.179480838 seconds.
--
Gate Thief #1 -- Level 18 -- 2:01 -- 862 time units.
Link to video
7,373 console frames = 122.681289726985 seconds.
--
Gate Thief #1 -- Level 15 -- 0:31 -- 222 time units.
Link to video
2,514 console frames = 41.831108419 seconds.
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Gate Thief #1 -- Level 9 -- 0:45 -- 321 time units.
Link to video
3110 console frames = 51.7481094603179 seconds.
--
Happy Holidays, everyone! Whenever Christmas approaches, I think about Prince of Persia, since I first started digging into these glitches during the Christmas holiday in late 2018.
I recorded a perfect run on Level 10 today for Gate Thief #1. This improved the game clock to 580 units; and the official console frame count to 4,801.
More details in the youtube description.
Link to video
I've got a good working projection for this "Legal Kill Button" setup. I've cleaned up Level 2, and implemented the faster Single-Down segment. Sum of best segments is down to 02:04.884, which is a 187 frame improvement over the xxNKxx TAS (3.11154 seconds faster).
We're looking at about 8 frames saved with the better approach to the Single-Down glitch; and 40 frames saved with better play on Level 2; otherwise, there's probably another 16 frames to be saved with perfect play and menu execution throughout. It seems doubtful that I'll be able to record a run that reaches 3 full seconds better than xxNKxx's TAS, but I can probably get reasonably close. After all, this is just a demonstration of the route, so I don't need to kill myself trying for perfection. lol!
EDIT: To clarify, of course it would be faster to do the Warp 8 without freeze; the purpose of my method is to avoid Sprite Manipulation. A clean Warp 8, Exit, and Begin Level One with Kill Button would cause the entire speedrun to use the Prince with the corrupted sprite animation. My method is the fastest possible way to legally enable Kill Button while preserving all original animation.
I forgot to account for lag in level 2. So the video I made today is only about 2 seconds faster than xxNKxx's tas thru the end of level 2. Some of this was my inaccuracies as well, so maybe there's a half second or whole second of improvements to be made. But anyway, the point is demonstrated with this video that you can quickly activate Kill Button without freeze, warp, or sprite manipulation.
From the beginning of the run until the end of level 2, this setup is a little over 2 seconds faster than xxNKxx's tas, so 124 console frames improved, despite lots of lag, and inaccurate play. However, from level 3 onward, this setup will have no negative effects for TAS potential, or speedrunning potential.
Also, you can see at the end of the video, my usual select menu navigation shows that this Single-Down Glitch does not scramble the buttons, and the Best Time garbage is all high enough to be overwritten with normal personal records. So overall, a very attractive setup for speedrunning!
EDIT: I'm going to redo this video later, because I used the slower "Single-Down" approach, as this was necessary to minimize lag for Gate Thief #1. However, I've since tested and found that the faster "Single-Down" approach offers basically the exact same amount of lag for the "Normal" Prince, and therefore, the slower approach is completely unnecessary. It appears that 16-20 frames can be saved by this alternate approach, and I should be able to save another 8-16 frames with better play on Level 2. This would account for more than 0.5 seconds saved. So I will work on it, and update you later.
Link to video
A couple of follow-ups.
In page 4 of this thread, xxNKxx linked to a TAS he made, where he did an un-prepped Hole #1 glitch to freeze the game and reset with Kill Button activated. He then proceeded to beat level 1 after the reset in about 1352 frames (first frame level 1 til first frame select menu). As I mentioned in the previous post, I've fixed the lag issue, and brought this version of level 1 down to 1320 frames.
Next, I've used the "Single Down" glitch from the new GT1 Setup to improve xxNKxx's total "kill button setup" (his included a reset) by about 5 seconds.
I'll make another video soon, to demonstrate the alternate "Single Down" route, which activates Kill Button with no Warping, no Freezing or resetting, and no Sprite Manipulation, so it is a better way to set up this idea xxNKxx had for a TAS with normal game play and no sprite manipulation, but with the added time save of Kill Button. -- I think the Moderators originally disqualified xxNKxx's TAS because of the freeze & reset, since there are better ways of implementing glitches. But for this exact TAS idea, my improvements form the basis for a legitimate run, if anyone would be interested in pursuing an alternate category (legal kill button, full game.)
Since I've saved about 5 seconds here (including no button scramble), xxNKxx's theoretical TAS projection would be down around 31:26.5, and there's probably more savings there, because I don't think he implemented everything from the Challenger TAS.
---------------------------
And don't worry! I'm not being distracted from my other endeavor, which is to regularly continue attempting a complete Gate Thief #1 run of all 20 levels in about 23:20. One of these days I'll get it done.
Unlike normal speedrunners, I see no benefit in submitting a bad run, and slowly improving it. In my opinion, each and every level in its own right is easy enough to deserve an error-free run. So I'm not going to complete a run with any major mistakes.
woohoo! Got it recorded. So this is the very fastest way to beat level 1, with Kill Button activated. By killing the guard while he is in his attack animation, his "death" is delayed, and somehow this prevents all of the grievous lag in the last room (some 28-29 lag frames).
With no lag in the final room, the new record here is 1,320 console frames exactly, counting from the time the TV finishes drawing the first frame of level 1, until the time the TV finishes drawing the first frame of the Select Menu being visible during the "End of Level" music.
Level 1 -- 1,320 console frame -- 159 time units -- 0:22.
Link to video
1,320 console frames = 21.9638278 seconds.
a few posts ago, you can see the video I made on just level 1, with regular Prince beating the level in 0:22 with Kill Button (159 time units). As I noted in the youtube description, I realized that killing the guard created a lot of lag in the final room, as the exit door is opening.
I solved that lag issue with a very fun alternate approach to the guard room. New video tonight!
This was a tough run! But having knocked 3 seconds off the projection, well worth the trouble!
Details in previous post, and youtube description.
NEW BEST SETUP FOR GATE THIEF #1:
edit: updated youtube link. had to reupload because of corrupt processing.
Link to video
Ok! Finally recorded a great video sufficient for updating the projection.
"Sum of best" is about 12 frames better, but it's a lot of crazy stuff, so this video's official time will mark the new projection, regardless of possible minimal savings here and there. The main reason for letting it slide is that I took advantage of a serious attack on the level 2 door to exit early, before returning to level 1 to continue the setup. This buffer attack saved dozens of frames, and I can only do it about 50% of the time. It's hard anticipating the perfect frame to push select, while the screen is still black!
Anyway, the new projection for the "setup" is 5184 console frames from start of speedrun until start of level 2 with the Gate Thief Sprite activated.
The video I recorded also shows an immediate run of Level 2, sufficient to document all lag. Even though I had several mistakes on level 2, the time lost for each mistake is known, and can be removed from the calculation of lag.
Overall, over 200 frames have been saved on the setup, and over 50 frames of lag saved by creating an alternate approach to the glitches.
A calculated best level 2 from start until select menu is activated during "end of level music" is about 4,232 console frames, which includes the improved lag resulting from the setup.
Anyway, the updated projection for "all 20 levels" is 83,524 console frames = 23:09.777843911123, safely under the 23:10 mark.
I am running late for work right now, so I will upload and share the new setup video tonight!
I recorded an interesting deviation from normal game play. Somehow the game decided to go full brightness 6 frames early on the Princess cut-scene, allowing an earlier pixelation pattern to be locked onscreen during fade-out. I have occasionally observed the game misbehaving by doing something early, so I am not convinced that this can be repeated with any consistency. If it could, I'm sure Challenger would have done so in his TAS. All of his cut-scenes throughout the 2016 TAS show a later pixelation pattern being locked onscreen during the fade-outs.
The end result is that this level-to-level transition took 6 frames less time than usual. So it would technically be an improvement if someone managed to do it during a speedrun or TAS. This leads to some questions about the game that I'm unable to test, since I'm unfamiliar with TAS tools.
The normal behavior is as follows:
3 frames front left column is white.
3 frames front right column is white.
3 frames front left column is white again.
3 frames back left column is white.
3 frames brightest setting, earliest input locks back left column on white.
first level of dimming on next frame (16th frame in animation sequence.)
This special instance I recorded shows the following:
First frame of animation sequence is drawn 1 frame earlier than usual.
3 frames front left column is white.
3 frames front right column is white.
1 frame front left column is white again.
3 frames brightest setting, earliest input locks front left column on white.
first level of dimming on next frame (11th frame in animation sequence.)
Animation sequence began 1 frame early, + brightest level starts 5 frames earlier in sequence = net 6 frames faster.
I found a slightly better setup for Gate Thief #1. It saves just over 2 full seconds, compared to the "better" setup. And saves more than 3 seconds compared to my alternate setup I've been using for speedrunning (which got rid of button scrambling and Best Time garbage numbers).
This new setup has the added benefit of also removing button scramble and Best Time garbage, so this is now the ultimate setup, and I will be implementing it in all speedruns hereafter.
I will upload a video shortly. In the meantime, I'll provide the stats here:
This new setup will reduce the "20 levels" projection by 190 frames. Additionally, this different setup seems to cause slightly less lag in level 2. I've calculated that it's approximately 23 frames saved. (A total of 213 frames saved.)
Thus, the new projection for a near-perfect "20 levels" run will be 83,571 console frames = 23:10.55988929525.
With this improvement, I am now supremely confident that I will be able to push very hard for a sub 23:20.
Edit 6/9/20: More slight improvements, and final video recorded. Will share data & video soon.
Edit 6/10/20: well, this is aggravating. The most recent round of improvements saved about 18 frames on the setup, but did not make any improvements on Lag in level 2. Whereas, the previous updated setup was 18 frames slower on the setup, but somehow saved about 18 frames of Lag. So, for now, they are the same. I have one other setup to test, it may save a little time on the setup, and lag. After I run the last round of tests and calculations, I guess I'll just have to see which one is easiest to perform consistently, if they all create roughly the same result. This Lag is so annoying!
UPDATE 6/11/20 --
I've mapped out the best combination, which should save another 30 frames on top of what I said above.
The basic setup remains the same:
- complete level 1, exit level 2, and restart level 1.
- by completing level 1, you have "visited" the room with the guard, which is step 1.
- step 2 is to do a "single-down" glitch at Hole #2.
The entire situation regarding lag on levels 1 & 2 hinges on step 2. The old approach caused button scramble and best time garbage. The newer approach corrected those issues, but still produced a lot of lag on level 2.
I discovered two new approaches, based on SprintGod's TAS, and Challenger's TAS. Using the Challenger TAS variation is preferred on step 3, with the "quad-up" glitch on Hole #2. But it cannot be used in step 2 for the "single-down" glitch, or else the level 2 lag is made worse.
As you will see in my upcoming video, I used Challenger's "tas" route to complete level 1, then the "new" approach based on SprintGod's TAS for the "single-down" glitch, and finally, the Challenger "tas" approach again for the "quad-up" glitch.
Thus, I call it the "Tas-New-Tas" approach, or TNT. I tested several combinations, to see which would maximize time savings and lag savings. I tried TTT, TNN, TNT, TNS, TTN, and TTS; and the winner is TNT by a long shot.
I'm going to take some time to do it properly, and record the best possible video, which will include a full run of Level 2, to document all lag. Once level 3 is begun, setup lag will no longer be an issue, and all subsequent lag will be a natural consequence of the Sprite Set. (Gate Thief #1 does create lag on its own in many situations, including a falling-jump while enemies and gates are moving.)
My target will be 5,210 - 5,214 frames for the setup (to begin level 2 with Gate Thief). Subsequently, another 18 frames of lag is expected to be saved on Level 2.
Overall, I'm hopeful to save 32 frames over the previous projection (83,571), bringing the new total down to 83,539 = 23:10.0274328635.
This is within 2 frames of a sub 23:10. As I have built several frames of level-to-level transition error into this projection, we can now safely confirm that this route could be done in less than 23:10. This leaves a very comfortable 10 second buffer for me to very aggressively pursue a sub 23:20.
It's been a while since I've contemplated all of the details of the projection, so I don't remember how much better a TAS could be. Unless a new trick is found though, I don't think there's enough room to allow a sub-23. Maybe pretty close to 23, but I don't think there's 10 seconds to save on performance.
maybe something like this:
23:03 -- TAS potential.
23:10 -- Human potential.
23:20 -- realistic human goal.
edit 6/14/20: regarding the "tas-new-tas" discussion above, the meaning behind all this is that these routes produce different spacing for the prince to approach the hole. the "tas" spacing allows the prince to do a clean ledge grab after the u-turn without making a wall collision sound. whereas, the "new" spacing doesn't go as far towards the hole. this spacing results in a different effect in the glitch, reducing lag; but it also causes a different sound, as the prince collides with the wall as he is falling down hole #2.
Since my last update, I devised a new route for the "new" portion (step 2, Single-Down Glitch); it is a variation of the Challenger TAS setup; instead of hitting the jump button at the edge to fall with a certain spacing, I do a full run off the ledge, to be a little further away, then turn and jump. This produces the exact same spacing as the "new" route, and is much simpler to perform.
So in practice now, all 3 passes of level 1 will look almost exactly the same, except on the 2nd pass (Single-Down), the Prince will not take the extra step off the ledge from the late jump button press.
I intend to record an official video of this tomorrow morning, now that everything is straight in my mind. I'll hopefully upload and share the video before work tomorrow night.
It's been a while since my last update. I've been doing runs, but Levels 11 and 13 have been stumbling blocks. The rest of the levels are getting very clean and sharp though, so I think when I finally do have a successful run, it'll be really low.
For fun, I made a new video today, which should be the lowest possible time for Level 1. Using Kill Button, and Challenger's 2016 TAS route, I got it down to 1,348 console frames = 22.4297271873 seconds in real time. The password shows 159 time units for the game clock, displaying "0:22." My previous record of 160, using the old SprintGod 2009 TAS route, also displayed "0:22" on-screen.
Level 1 - 0:22 - 159 time units - Kill Button.
Link to video
1,348 console frames = 22.4297271873 seconds, real time.
I just finished my first test run for GT#1 - All 20 Levels.
Unfortunately, I had a couple of deaths, so it's not official. But it gave me a good basis for seeing how long everything actually takes.
The synthesized run without death segments was about --
84,580 console frames (+796 over "best" projection).
8138 time units for Levels 01-19 (+48 over best records).
23:27.3489 real time. Safely under my original goal of 23:30.
So this is very encouraging. There were a few silly mistakes besides the deaths. So if I can tighten things up a little bit, and complete a run, I think something close to 23:25 is definitely a reasonable goal.
As I've said, the sum of all the best segments I've shared is 23:14.45, so averaging 0.5 seconds of errors per level will be a tall order, but maybe doable!
I'll be doing runs all week, so hopefully I'll finally get one ready to upload in the near future. I'm recording everything at 1080p @ 60 fps, so it will be possible to confirm console frame totals.
ok, so I recorded a couple of fun Game Genie Code videos. For some reason, my setup doesn't work with multiple codes. So I did one video with the "No Gates" code, and one video with the "No Fall" code.
First, I did Level 4, with "No Gates" and the Invincibility Glitch from Level 8. If I could use both codes simultaneously, the "No Fall" code would allow for a quick fall in front of the gate where we do the gate drop trick near the end of the level. But without that code being available, the Invincibility Drop in the next room is almost as good. In fact, with "No Gates" active, (and without "No Falls"), the gate drop trick is impossible, since you need to be able to collide with the gate to pop back up. Without the gate collision, you take damage, and waste time being stunned.
This Level 4 with "No Gates" and "Invincibility" was completed in 249 time units, which displays 35 seconds on the game clock. This is a vast improvement on Fat Gate Thief's time, where 48 seconds is displayed.
For the second video, I played Level 11, using the "No Fall" code, which allows the Prince to fall from any height without taking damage or dying. Since the "No Gates" code could not also be used, I got the Gate Thief #2 sprite set, which is almost as fast. Combining these big falls with gate skipping abilities allowed for a pretty big improvement. This run was completed in 340 time units, with 48 seconds being displayed on the clock. Without the "No Falls" code, GT#2 can only manage to see 55 seconds on the clock at best.
Game Genie -- No Gates -- Level 4 -- 0:35
Link to video
"No Gates" code + Invincibility Glitch from Level 8.
249 time units = 35.15294 seconds on the game clock.
Game Genie -- No Fall -- Level 11 -- 0:48
Link to video
"No Fall" code + Gate Thief #2.
340 time units = 48.00000 seconds on the game clock.
Throughout the game, there are several small improvements to be made, but usually not more than a couple of seconds, given the layouts.
A few notables include "No Fall" on Level 12, where 4 seconds is saved; "No Gates" on Level 13, where 3 seconds is saved; and "No Fall" on Levels 14 and 19, where 2 seconds is saved on each.
Additionally, I think "No Fall" may be able to provide some slight improvement on the Level 3 Invincibility Route, but I haven't tested it yet.
On other levels, savings are pretty minimal, if any.
I got my Game Genie in the mail today, and tested the "No Gates" code. The last time I messed around with this code was on an emulator over a year ago, probably before I discovered Gate Thief. Now that I'm more well acquainted with these aspects of the game, I can say that using the "No Gates" code with "Normal" Prince Sprite effectively creates a hybrid between GT1 and Fat GT. This means on levels such as 19, where GT1 has the advantage in one area, while Fat GT has the advantage in a different area, using the "No Gates" code can effectively combine the better parts of each route for a superior hybrid route, and gain the time saves from both previous routes.
There are two limitations to the "No Gates" code. The first I've mentioned before: even with the code enabled, you cannot skip a gate by climbing up into it -- the Prince will still stop after the chin-up, and go back down. The second limitation has to do with the Sprite's hit box when standing still near a gate. If you are within a step of the gate, and standing still, you will not be able to start running to run through the gate. If you attempt to start running from that point, you will instead step up to the gate. So, if it is completely closed, from that position, you must do the double-turn trick, which I regularly employ with all Gate Thief sprites. Or you must do a standing-jump to jump through.
A third limitation is sprite-specific. If you are standing still near a gate that is closing but not yet fully closed, you can only run through if you additionally have the Gate Thief #2 or #3 sprites, where the hit box is 1 pixel high, and you will not collide with the gate. "Normal" Prince, and GT1 & Fat Gate Thief have a normal body hit box, and will step up to the gate if it has gone down past the head.
Therefore, for the absolute optimal setup across all levels, you must enable "No Gates" code, and use the GT#2 or #3 sprites. In my opinion, Gate Thief #3 may be the best sprite for this purpose, since it does not wobble around as much, causing fewer distractions to the eye. My setup for acquiring GT3 is somewhat unreliable, so I need to do some further testing. (The setup randomly gives you either GT3, or Static Sword, or Static Prince sprites. Sometimes it can take several attempts and resets before the game finally gives you GT3.)
An interesting note -- there are two places in the game where "No Gates" code is a weakness. The 3-level drop on level 4, where the gate pops you back up cannot be done, because you will not collide with the gate! Instead you will take damage and freeze, as if no gate was there to pop you up! Also, you cannot take advantage of the Invincibility Route on Level 14, because again, there is no gate collision to pop you back up after the big fall!
In both instances, a "No Fall" code would be necessary, but even then, the Prince will stand up slowly, as if rising from a crouch or 1-level fall, rather than immediately popping up from the gate collision.
For some reason, the well published "No Fall" code is not working on my Game Genie, so I'll have to do some more research tomorrow.
In the meantime, I've decided to record a few videos of "No Gates" code levels for fun. I've already recorded a "0:35" video for level 4, which I may post tomorrow.
After much difficulty, the game finally gave me a good level 12. I'm still not satisfied with the results. The best recording is at 1857 console frames, and also has the lowest time unit count, at 208, with "0:29" displayed on the clock. However, prior to this lucky recording, my best had been an alternate route, which yielded 1858 frames, and a worse time unit upon the clock, at 209, although still with "0:29" displayed.
The average "208" had been about 10 frames worse, which was the result of lots of lag. It took a long time to optimize things and get rid of the lag.
The problem is, that best "209" had an error, killing the skeleton boss 4 frames late. So theoretically, 1854 might be possible. But I absolutely cannot get anything near it again. So for now, it looks like the "208" @ 1857 is the best I'll be able to capture.
This is a 21 frame improvement over the recent level 12 update, and this will further improve the "all 20 levels" projection to 83,784 frames = 23:14.1040524.
Gate Thief #1 -- Level 12 -- "0:29"
Link to video
1857 console frames = 30.8991123 seconds real time.
208 time units = 29.3647 seconds on the game clock.
wow, it seems I underestimated Fat Gate Thief. Not only did he beat GT2 INV Level 4 by 2 time units to secure a "0:48" on the clock, but he also beat GT1 & GT2 by 3 time units on Level 6 to secure a "0:44" on the clock. On top of that, FGT broke the record on level 16 by 3 time units, although that level's displayed time will remain at "1:04."
After filling out the board with GT1 & GT2 records earlier today, I reset the console, and did the first half of the "Sub-9" route, to acquire Fat Gate Thief. This added high time garbage to levels 4-7, and 16-19. FGT was able to overwrite all of these, contributing better times for 4 and 6, as mentioned. And able to contribute matching times for levels 5, 7, and 16-19.
So here it is! Perhaps the ultimate Best Times board, without using Game Genie Codes. Only warp glitches!
GT2 contributed best times for Level 8 & 11.
FGT contributed best times for Levels 4 & 6.
GT1 contributed for the remainder of the levels, originally; with supplemental rewrites provided by FGT, as mentioned above.
