Ok, last note before I finish Level 3. As it turns out, the Gate Thief can sneak under the Crusher at the end of Level 3, before the 3rd "crush." It was impossible for the normal sprite to get through before 3 crushes. This is why you see in Challenger's TAS, he falls to the left side of the hole, waits for the 3rd "crush", and then jumps after it with perfect spacing to clip the ledge.
But in a sword state, the Gate Thief Prince is able to get past the Crusher just before the 3rd crush comes down, so now there is definitely time to save, to beat the TAS. Unfortunately, coming down the right side of the hole means bad spacing after the jump, for a clumsy wall collision, but it is still a big net time saver, since you don't have to wait for the crusher.
By turning back to the right before dropping into the hole, the Gate Thief is 4 frames slower than the TAS, which is 1 time unit slower. But he is 3 time units faster in the next two rooms: 12 frames saved in the crusher room, and another 2 frames saved in the gate room. This improvement of 10 frames (net) is enough to save 2 time units, meaning Gate Thief should be able to get a 653, compared to Challenger's 655.
But recording it won't be easy! Let's see if I can do it! If I get it, you will see "M2J7TBB" password at the end of the video.
I found more time for the TAS to save over the course of the entire game. In addition to the music trick, which saves 6-7 seconds on level 19 (cutting Jaffar's intro short in the Throne Room), you can do the same music trick at the end of each level. As soon as the "end music" starts to play, you can hit "Start + Select" to bring up the music menu, and select Sound #1, which is the Intro Jingle at Startup Logo.
This Jingle is faster than End Music, and saves at least 24 frames per level. Multiplied by 19 levels, that's another 15.2 seconds.
So the TAS can save almost 22 seconds over Challenger's 33:31, and possibly get down to 33:10.
This can still be used in conjunction with the "select menu" trick to save in-game time, while the new jingle plays.
Working on Level 3 today. It will be very difficult to beat the TAS in non-invincibility mode, as there is only one potential improvement with the Gate Thief ability, and that is to do three running jumps along the final hallway instead of two, since the Gate Thief can more easily jump under the final gate. However, the spacing requires a wall collision before climbing up toward the Exit Room, so there may only be a potential for 1 time unit saved. Otherwise, the non-invincibility route will be identical to the TAS route.
Whereas the Invincibility Route calls for a long drop off the left side of the Skeleton's platform, and will beat the TAS by about 10 or 11 time units. I'm getting pretty sharp on all parts, so hopefully I can crank out both videos tonight. We'll see!
(remember, each time unit is about 1/7 of a second, or 4.235 frames @ 30 fps.)
Two more levels completed, Level 2 and Level 5. I realized last night I have a few other important videos I still need to make to round out the "documentation", before I start working on a full speedrun. After I do Level 3, I need to go back and update Level 18 for Gate Thief #1, which is now 2 time units faster with the extra jump at the first guard. I also need to document the faster Fat Gate Thief route on Level 18, seen in the Sub-9 Minute Speedrun. And while I'm at it, I'll reshoot the Fat Gate Thief Level 19 video from a better angle. After that, I also want to do a Non-Invincibility Level 14 for Gate Thief #2. At some point I also want to get some kind of video of the Invincibility Route for Level 3, which is quite difficult to replicate. We'll see how that goes.
Anyway, here are Levels 2 & 5 for Gate Thief #1.
Level 2:
Link to video
474 time units = 66.917 seconds. "1:07"
Level 5:
Link to video
369 time units = 52.094 seconds. "0:52"
Level 3 Non-Invincibility Route coming up next.
I recorded a demo today, so I could lay the framework for the 20-levels gate thief speedrun. A performance that matches all of my personal bests per level (most of the videos posted in this thread, and a few early levels yet to be properly recorded) will yield a time of approximately 23:27.378. This gives about 18 time units of error to remain below 23:30. One can expect to average 1 lost time unit per level with literally perfect play. Therefore, I think a human cannot break 23:30. For my own playing, I expect that an exceptionally excellent run will average about 2-3 lost time units per level, which would put me around 23:33 - 23:37. Realistically, a couple of small mistakes could quickly put me up to 23:40 - 23:43.
Basically, it will take a nearly flawless full run, with only a couple of very small mistakes to clear 23:40.
So, I will finish up the videos for 2-5 soon, post them here for everyone's reference, and then I'll see if I can put together a sub-23:40 speedrun.
I just realized a part of my framework is a comparison with my first full speedrun, in which I gave extra on-screen time to the password boxes for clarity. This being unnecessary, I think very tight level exits might save 5 seconds or more. I guess I might try to record another demo, and see if I can tighten the estimate. At any rate, this is a good start.
human limit -- 23:30 - 23:40.
tas limit ------ 23:15 - 23:20.
I'm back!
I have tentative plans to work on an "All 20 Levels" speedrun with Gate Thief #1. So, as I have already documented levels 6-20, I'm now working on videos for levels 2-5. (Of course level 1 is already covered in the basic setup for acquiring the Gate Thief skin.)
First, I've finally captured level 4, after a couple hundred failed attempts. I got my record of 354 time units on two different occasions, and of course in both instances I was not recording a video at the time. It proved unbelievably difficult to do it a third time on video! When I finally had it recorded, and compared it to several 355 videos, I found that the trick is to get a quick jump when leaving the island, and of course perfect squat timing when approaching the two loose panels at the end.
Due to the odd spacing of the last two gates, it is not feasible to just run and jump through them, as you will end up sailing past the END BUTTON, and have to turn around and run back to it. So, the less attractive Double-Turn method is employed at both gates at the end of the level.
Also, as this is in preparation of an "All 20 Levels" speedrun, of course it will not include a Warp With Invincibility. So this and other upcoming videos will show Non-Invincibility Routes for Levels 2-5. (You may recall that on previous pages, I have uploaded new videos for Levels 13 & 14, which show their Non-Invincibility Routes also.)
Gate Thief #1 -- Level 4 -- 0:50.
Link to video
354 time units = 49.976 seconds on the in-game clock.
More to come! Having already achieved my goal of sub-9 with the Fat Gate Thief, I have not prioritized another run with the new level 19 route from my most recent video above. With minimal mistakes, an 8:50 should be doable by a human. An 8:49.9 would be my next goal. But at the moment, I'm more intrigued with the idea of beating all 20 levels with Gate Thief #1.
In the coming days, I will prepare an estimated time to beat. Off the top of my head, I'm guessing something near 25 minutes would be realistic. Hopefully sub-25. Details coming soon!
another small, silly update.
We know that when you explore "Playable Level Zero", and beat the level, the next level you will play is Level One. Presumably, this is because the number 0 precedes the number 1.
I have come across two instances where Level Zero has been beaten without actually going to an Exit Door. In both instances, the Prince subsequently begins Level One.
In the first instance, following the route for my sub-9 run, we visit the guard, proceed to hole #5, and then, instead of exiting, continue to the LEFT in Playable Zero to hole #6 (which warps to level 4). This pattern, instead of warping to level 4, triggers the sound of the Prince climbing the stairs, the sound of a level being beaten, and the Prince goes to level one.
In the second instance, a variation of the sub-9 route reaches level 18 with the Fat Gate Thief, does the warp #1 on Level 18 (which either triggers warp to 18 Checkpoint, or warp to unplayable Level Zero within 18), and this variation similarly triggers the sound of the Prince climbing the stairs, the sound of a level being beaten, and the Prince goes to level one.
So this does, in theory, answer one question that has been bugging me: What happens if you get into a "Playable Level Zero" on a non-Level-One course? Apparently, the answer is that even though it appears to be the non-Level-One course, it is still, according to the game, "Level Zero", which must be followed by "Level One" upon completion.
While we have yet to find a real Playable Level Zero on a non-Level-One course, we know from experience that if such a discovery was possible, a sword-draw would still follow the same principle of completing a warp associated with the hole used. In the case of Level 18, if a stable Playable Level Zero was found, a sword draw would probably warp to Level 18 Checkpoint, since both warp sites are associated with Level 18 Checkpoint.
By the way, I didn't announce this before, but I did find a stable warp to Level 18 Checkpoint. The funny part is that the hole is after the checkpoint, so using it would be considered a small negative progress. lol.
Overall, I think this playable level zero discovery is a small disappointment. I had hoped that one day a Playable Level Zero might be achieved on a Non-Level-One course, with the hopes that something very interesting might happen after beating it. But it would seem that no matter where you are, any Playable Zero course will be followed by Level One.
I found a better route for Fat Gate Thief today, on level 19, which saves almost 1 second. Instead of climbing all the way to the top gate, I stopped at the top level of the room below, did a double u-turn, and jumped LEFT towards the gate in the wall, one level below. The prince clips through the top of the gate, and lands in the next room. From there, run through the next gate, and climb up to the last gate before Jaffar.
This skip also works for Gate Thief #2 (the wobbling sword prince), and the Static Sword sprite. However, Gate Thief #1 & #3 are unable to do this shortcut.
Additionally, I found that Fat Gate Thief can jump through the Final Gate (after Jaffar) without pressing the button. This saves several seconds. These two new route updates for Level 19 put Fat Gate Thief at 532 time units, only 2 units slower than Gate Thief #1 at 530. (GT#1 has the superior route, but loses time having to push the gate button at the end.)
I also shaved a time unit off level 18, to get clock display down to 2:01.
Fat Gate Thief improved times:
Level 18 -- 863 time units = "2:01."
Level 19 -- 532 time units = "1:15."
Applying these to the Sub-9 route reduces the potential by about 4 seconds. TAS should easily be under 8:45.
I'll try to make & upload some videos for these Fat Gate Thief levels soon.
EDIT: Here's a temporary video for the new level 19 route. I don't have my usual video setup available, so I'll go back and make a better video later. But this will suffice for now, so you can see it.
Link to video
Fat Gate Thief -- Level 19 -- "1:15"
I'm going back and finalizing things for a "Beat Every Level" Any% run, which would involve the usual setup for Gate Thief #1, and then using that to beat every level in order.
According to my calculations, Gate Thief #1 should be able to "Beat Every Level" comfortably under the 24 minute mark. Somewhere around 23:45.
I'll provide some more updates soon, I hope. Looking back, I've already shared videos of Gate Thief #1 beating levels 6-20, so now it's time to go back and make videos for levels 2-5. I think I already have 5 done. 2 & 3 are pretty boring because there aren't many gates to sneak through. Level 4 is an interesting one though, and just this week, I have developed a new route for Gate Thief #1 that is actually faster than the "Invincibility Route" I came up with initially.
I discovered a new setup for Gate Thief today. It involves Exit Final Guard + Single Up #2, for typical corrupt Zero. Then, on Level 3, go one room to the right, and then turn & jump back towards first room & Exit. Depending on the Prince's position, this can cause freeze, menu reset, or Warp to Level 4. Exit 4, continue to 3, and repeat warp glitch. Now, you warp to Level 4 with Gate Thief sprite.
Unfortunately, this setup is slower than traditional Gate Thief setup (as seen in my videos). This new alternate setup I found on level 3 is actually a similar time, but it creates massive lag, as well as "Jafar already dead", which requires a death to reset. If a TAS was to optimize the glitch, I think it would still be considerably slower, given the lag. So the traditional Gate Thief setup will remain the preferred setup for "beat every level".
For those of you who have been following our progress, but may not feel like sorting back through pages of comments, I am going to write a post here that quickly recaps things, as they relate to the new sub-9 minute speedrun. This is just a copy/paste of the updated youtube description for my video, but I think this is a good place to show it.
Quote:
First, a quick recap of Warp Glitch. The game has a weird state known as "Level Zero", which you can see momentarily if you pause and exit just before a screen transition. The game will always advance one more frame after "Game End" is selected. So if you select "Game End" just before a screen transition, the game will proceed to the next room, and the next room will be visible on-screen for one frame, in a "Level Zero" state. In many cases, Level Zero looks exactly like whatever you were playing, so for the most part, it goes unnoticed. However, with a sharp eye, and a special set of circumstances, you may notice some weird things happening during that brief glimpse of the next room, such as missing floor panels, ghostly clouds of glitchy garbage, or torch fire flying around.
The key to unlocking these glitches depends upon two things: (1) where is the Prince? and (2) where is that cloud of pixelated garbage?
The pixelated garbage is a corrupted image of loose rubble on the ground. Loose rubble is the result of a fallen panel, or it may already be there as a part of the level design. If the Prince is running, jumping, climbing, or falling into this cloud during that one frame of "Level Zero" after the exit and the subsequent screen transition, a glitch is triggered. Many glitches simply freeze the game, but some can be used to your advantage. Some more complex glitch patterns require a sequence of glitches, which, if done in order, and correctly, will maintain game stability, while unlocking some special abilities, including Warping, running & jumping through Closed Gates, or Instantly Killing guards with the Kill Button. The "patterns" of the glitches are dependent on what you're doing immediately before, such as your approach to a hole, how many times you climb in, or your position when you fall.
I have created a number of videos that demonstrate many of these glitch combinations, including ones which allow you to explore Level Zero, and jump into these clouds at your leisure. These videos also show some of the side-effects of glitches, such as video corruption that obscures the level in darkness, or scrambling the Prince's animation frames so that he appears to be wiggling across the screen in a funny way. Some of these animation glitches affect the Prince's collision box, and allow him to temporarily avoid colliding with closed gates, and thus, sneak through!
The route used in this video calls for 3 setup (buffer) glitches, and 2 warp glitches, in sequence. The first three appear on level one in sequence. The 1st glitch is a quick visit to the Final Guard on Level 1, which prevents the 2nd glitch from freezing the game. (It is not necessary to Exit in the room before the Guard. All that matters is that you see the Guard. Exiting during the screen transition just saves a few frames.) The 2nd glitch (in the 6th room) scrambles the Prince's animation into a specific pattern that reacts favorably with another glitch later. The 3rd glitch (in the 8th room) simply Warps to Level 4. Essentially, these 3 glitches take the same amount of time as playing Levels 1 & 2 together. The net result saves over 1.5 minutes by not having to play Level 3 at all.
You can see the screen filled with junk immediately after the 2nd glitch. This tells you that the 3rd glitch will cause video corruption, and shroud Level 4 in darkness. As you can see from some of my previous videos, there are many different patterns that can be used to prevent this from happening. But this is a speedrun, so the faster pattern is more important than being able to see where you're going!
After beating Level 4, you go to the 3rd room in Level 5, and drop down the hole to fall into the rubble you just created by knocking down the panel. Because of the special properties of the 2nd glitch performed earlier, this 4th glitch acts as a setup glitch rather than a warp glitch. Instead of Warping, the Prince is rescrambled to a new series of funny animation frames (including the Fat Man & the Skeleton). This very special scramble allows the Prince to run & jump through closed gates. A side-effect of this 4th glitch is a Logo Reset. It is not an illegal Console Reset. The difference is that a Console Reset will always remove the Prince's animation corruption. This Logo Reset costs about 30 seconds, but it's worth it because the ability to jump through gates will save over 2 minutes on the last few levels. Finally, the 5th glitch is performed in the same place as the 4th glitch, but this time, the new sprite corruption reacts favorably for a perfect Warp to Level 16 Checkpoint! From here, the remainder of the speedrun is simple execution.
-- End Quote. --
I will add to this by saying that these Glitches do not only have to be executed by falling or climbing through a hole. All that matters is that a screen transition takes place for a temporary Level Zero status, and that a Rubble Cloud should be nearby.
There are actually a couple of places in the game where you can simply run and jump to the edge of a screen, exit, and some conveniently located rubble in the next room will trigger a warp or glitch. One such example is at the beginning of Level 3, where one of the rooms triggers invincibility mode, and resets to the beginning of Level 3, about the same as the invincibility glitch on Level 8 just past the first guard.
And there's also a funny but useless warp to level 6 checkpoint from the bottom of the pit at the end of level 6.
However, as you can see from all the previous videos, just about every useful glitch comes from climbing up or down (or falling down) near or into rubble, rather than running or jumping along the same level.
Edit: I'll note here a quick explanation of the Logo Reset. You can do this at your leisure on level 20, after you beat Jaffar and return to the hallway. If you are in-game, and Jaffar is "dead," exiting the level from Select Menu will reset to the Konami Logo, instead of going directly to the Main Menu. Simply stated, this is just the way it works. If you exit the game when Jaffar is "dead," that happens.
So, there is a modifier somewhere in the game's memory where Jaffar is Dead? is set to either 0 or 1. And unfortunately, this modifier can be changed by certain warp glitches. In the case of this Sub-9-minute route, the first Warp Glitch performed in Level 5 is one such glitch instance where Jaffar's status is changed to Dead, and the exit therefore jumps back to the Konami Logo. It's an unfortunate reality for this speedrun route. I absolutely do not think there is an alternate pattern which would allow us to forgo the Jaffar Status Change, and immediately restart level 5 from the Main Menu. So, it's unfortunate, but definitely better than nothing!
I noticed an interesting glitch, quite by accident yesterday. I left the game intro running while I was eating. When I came back, I exited the demonstration while the Prince was Fighting the Guard. Apparently, I pushed a button at the exact moment of a Sword Striking noise. When I started Level One immediately after this, the game began with endless and continuous loud and fast Sword Striking noises in rapid succession. I have seen this happen before as a result of Warp Glitches, but this was new, seeing it happen by itself just by leaving the demonstration at the right time.
Anyway, while this was happening, I was practicing my 9 minute route, so I went to Final Guard and Exit. This eliminated the Sword Noises. Then I went to Hole #5, and did my usual double drop to get Warp Zero. But this time, it warped to Level 8, instead of Zero.
I haven't been able to repeat this, as I guess you need perfect timing when exiting the demonstration. But it gave me an idea. I wonder if this exact setup with Sword Noises can be used with Guard Exit + Hole #6 for Warp to Level 4, instead of Hole #5 for Warp to Level 8. If that works, it could be a big savings for No Gate Skip Route.
It is also possible that the Sword Noises were completely unrelated. I have noticed on very rare occasions that a Warp Zero setup can unexpectedly become a Level Warp, because of some very minor variation in all actions leading up to it. But in this case, I have to think that the Sword Noises may have been involved. Perhaps a variation of the short setup by letting Demo run, and then immediately getting a stable Warp 8 from Hole #1.
So, I did it! World's First Sub-9 Minute Speedrun!!!!
I got really nervous on level 5 after successfully using the u-turn trick on level 4. This forced my hand into using the quick-drop warp on level 5 to recover the time.
(Edit #1: a point of interest here, my best attempt with the slow drop was about exactly the same amount of time (I think the same number of frames) as this sub-9 attempt with the "quick drop" on level 5, which means the quick drop happened to save exactly as much time as I lost by colliding with the gate AND the time lost running to the wall in the next room instead of crawling. I think the quick-drop must have been about 1.5 seconds of savings.)
So despite a bad level 5, I performed all major tricks, including all the latest gate skip routes for 16, 18, and 19.
Official time: 08:57.336.
I was also a full second behind my level 20 record, and played level 17 rather conservatively. So it appears that 8:55 is definitely breakable by a human. TAS should be sub-8:50 easy.
(Edit #2: I think all my best segments combined would currently yield a run of 8:54.000. So TAS may actually get close to 8:45. Challenger has already demonstrated a big improvement on level 1.)
I love the rainbow snow on level 4. Depending on what actions I take near the Warp 4 hole, prior to warping, the snow pattern can be slightly different. I like another variation of the snow pattern better, but it takes extra time. The snow pattern only works if the Warp Zero pattern is performed exactly this way (from hole #5). You can see the screen stays black longer, instead of flashing an extra glimpse of Level Zero.
This exact setup produces a different effect about 10% of the time. I think I had a decent run going during this alternate effect once, but I messed it up. At least I have the video for documentary evidence.
Link to video
"Fat Gate Thief -- Warp 4 + Warp 16 -- 08:57.336"
EDIT: The warp to level 18 checkpoint didn't help so much?
It is unstable in the extreme. So far, I have only been able to get it to work with one or two specific sprite setups that do not conform with Warp 16. Once it is engaged, the sound effects all go away, and the game becomes unstable (although, it seems stable enough to avoid crashing for the rest of the game).
My opinion is that it is not a helpful warp, as it may only save 25 seconds on a long 25-minute route.
If you are curious to continue testing, you can see which hole I used, near the beginning of level 18, from the 2 glitch videos earlier. I think it only worked going DOWN, but I could be wrong. I have been very preoccupied with the sub-9 route, and didn't write anything down for 18.
I did get some funny roulette background glitches when I messed with the screen setup. I used Invincibility to knock down the loose panel above the midpoint gate. The panel released me from the spikes, and the position of that new rubble alters the glitch when going UP.
================================
================================
Challenger wrote:
No, I don't have intentions to make another TAS which beats all levels with Gate Thief because getting that glitch through holes feels arbitrary.
My counter-argument here would be that in many, many, many games throughout history, a "beat every level" scenario has been a hotly contested sub-category, because it showcases the full range of the game. I think it would be interesting to see a TAS that is almost 8 minutes faster than the previous TAS, without skipping any levels.
However, as far as "demonstration" goes, I suppose I can adequately cover this by finally releasing videos of all the remaining levels. I can understand you would not be motivated to just keep TAS'ing this game over and over again. lol.
ok, got a new composite time (between two runs).
I've cleaned up the routes on 1, 5, 16, 18, and 19.
This total includes the quick fall on 5a. And falling and hanging after the crusher on level 4. (It's still hard to get a perfect u-turn blind during a speedrun, but I'm working on it.) And a bad wall collision after the boss on 16. This time also includes 3 crouches to approach the wall before entering the final room, on 5a & 5b. A better fall and only 2 crouches each time should reduce the overall time by a little bit (less than half a second.)
08:57.523 total.
With a perfect u-turn on 4, perfect crouches on 5, and perfect wall collision on 16, the time should be improved by 2 full seconds. (08:55.500 or better.)
Without the quick fall on 5a, I should still be around 8:58.750, so it looks like I should be fine to work on a "safe" sub-9 speedrun first, before I try to add the u-turn and the quick-fall.
It appears your TAS setup for level 1 is about 6+ seconds faster than me, so it looks like a sub-8:50 should be possible for TAS, and with some more minor improvements, sub-8:45 might be possible, but it may be very difficult to find those last few savings.
I'll try to make a new speedrun soon to show off the excellent improvements for levels 16-19. You may have already noticed if you've been paying close attention, that the level 18 run (in the 9:03 video) shows this version of the Fat Gat Thief to be much more flexible with gate patterns than the previous Fat Gate Thief. The injection of the Level 4 Warp has made a slight difference to his animation, but also to his general gate skipping abilities. So I've saved several seconds now, by altering my approach to the gates on levels 16 & 19.
Video soon!
P.S. -- a quick comment about Gate Thief Route vs. No Gate Skip Route:
These categories seem unhelpful here. With the amazing short length of these routes, thanks to Warp 4 and Warp 16, the only real difference is saving a couple of minutes on levels 18 & 19. Frankly, it's an unimpressive difference.
I lobbied to create the different categories from the perspective of the huge potential difference between the routes using Warp 8. There was a nice variety of game play to be displayed across these many levels. I hope to further illustrate these differences by eventually looking for a Gate Thief Vs. No Gate Skip comparison in a "beat every level" situation, to truly show the full range of abilities, and the game itself.
Challenger, I hope if you aren't too tired of this game after you make a Definitive 4+16 Gate Thief TAS, you might consider using my previous Gate Thief videos to put together a "beat every level" Gate Thief exposition. (The work is mostly done! lol.)
Here's the run I did this morning. 9:03.481.
I've been practicing the u-turn under the crusher on level 4, so I should be able to pull that off in the next run to save about 1.5 seconds. Probably got 1 second to save on level 1, and 1 second to save with that quick drop on level 5, so I think I should be able to break 9 minutes. :)
Also, oh my god, check out that level 18. I practiced a few more times today to save a few time units, and got it down as low as 867. My performance in this speedrun broke my record, and got 866! WOW! "2:02" displayed clock result. 866 = 2:02.25882. The funny thing is that I had a bad jump after the midpoint (it made an extra footstep noise). So maybe 865 is possible.
Link to video
"Gate Thief - Full Speedrun - 9:03.481"
hmmmm. So for the GT video you made, that's crazy that you were able to do single drops on holes #5 and #6, and also do that immediate drop on level 5. Whenever I do single drops, it seems more often than not that they make an unstable pattern.
So, I'm guessing the instant drop on level 5 works because this time it's not a warp, it's just a sprite scramble, so the position isn't as important. I think that too would get me under 9 minutes, lol.
The fix I found for the clock & lag (GT route) was to drop twice in each hole. Plus I can't exit as fast as the TAS, so in all, I'm about 5 seconds slower than you there. This difference would definitely get things under the 9 minute mark.
As for the second video "no gate skip", this still has the clock and lag issue on level 16, so debatable whether it's better. I think it would be preferable to have a TAS that isn't getting caught up in that clock bug, and having to restart a level to make it go away (which costs an extra 5 seconds, + lag)
Hahahaha!!!!!!! SOLVED IT!!!!!!!
I cleaned up the warps, and got rid of clock bug & all lag. Tightened up level 18.
Just did 9:03. Hahahaha!!!!!
Ok, a couple more minor things to study, and then I'll confirm whether 8:59 is possible.
Edit: this sprite can do the u-turn underneath the crusher on level 4 no problem, and I can tighten up level 1 a little bit. Looks really close to 9 minutes now. I'm gonna try to do a bunch of runs this weekend, and see if I can break 9.
Update. Just got no clock bug on the Fat Gate Thief route again. If I can nail down the final details, the route should definitely be below 9:30, because without the lag, 16 goes fast, and no restart on level 17. Almost there!
Alright! Got both videos recorded. I may have slightly underestimated the no gate skip route previously. It looks like it's going to be super tough to break the 11 minute mark. I still have to practice level 19. But part of the time difference appears to be some ongoing lag throughout the second half, even though there is no clock bug.
Going the other way, I overestimated the Gate Thief route slightly. I had a very solid run of 9:39.9, but easily had 3-4 seconds worth of mistakes. So perhaps 9:35 is possible. I seriously doubt a TAS can break the 9:30 mark. Anyway, I'm very proud that I was able to smash the 10 minute mark! AND Break the 9:40 mark!
Link to video
"Gate Thief - Warp 4 + 16 - 9:39.971"
----------
Link to video
"No Gate Skip - Warp 4 + 16 - 11:10.411"
somewhat infrequently (perhaps 20%) I'm getting the warp to level 16 with no clock flashing bug. you saw this in my 14:11 speedrun a few days ago. I'm still trying to figure out exactly what fixes it.
Assuming I can figure it out, my new preliminary report looks as follows:
no gate skip: 10:58.
gate thief: 9:38.
The new optimal Gate Thief route includes (stable) video corruption on level 4, so it's a fun little challenge to jump through that level in the dark. It's pretty easy though. :) The corruption is cleared up by the logo trigger, which activates Fat Gate Thief. So 16-20 is visible with no issues. There is an alternate trick that allows for clean warp, but it comes with Kill Button deactivated.
I will try to upload complete speedruns for Gate Thief & No Gate Skip today.
Problem solved. I've got a stable warp to levels 4 + 16. The level 4 warp now behaves like the 6 & 8 warps, where only 5 - 10 minutes is run off the clock, so after warp 16, we're still near 70 minutes left.
The Gate Thief version awards Invincibility #1. But I've still got some testing to do. Updates coming soon.
It looks like Gate Thief will be close to breaking 10 minutes now, and No Gate Skip may be close to 12 minutes.
I found some fun video corruption while testing the Warp to Level 18 Checkpoint. As you can see, the Warp to Level 18 Checkpoint will not be a big time saver. It beats Gate Thief #1 on the First Half by 27 seconds, but the Gate Thief gains back about 27 seconds on the Second Half. So it is a decent time saver for a No Gate Skipping run, but probably not enough for a universal individual level record. As yet, I have not found a setup where this Warp is receptive to the various Gate Thief sprites, but I'll continue to test.
Anyway, these two videos were a lot of fun to make, I hope you enjoy them. The glitch here requires that Jaffar is already defeated, so I used Debug Menu to beat Jaffar and then Jump Back to Level 18 for the glitch. I also used Debug Level Jump throughout, to avoid levels with the Princess Cut Scene, as that would fix the corruption, and the effects would be lost.
This video glitch looks really cool in some rooms. The Walls and Columns are visible, but everything else is invisible -- Gates, Floors, Panels, Traps. And the glitch also eliminates all Sound Effects, so only Music is playing. This takes away the sound of traps, as well the Prince's Footsteps, which are usually helpful in tracking your position. Also, no audio confirmation of a Gate Opening or Closing, or a Loose Panel Falling, etc. So in some cases, this makes for a challenging setup. Lots of fun playing it!
In the first video, I played through Levels 17, 18, and 19. Level 18 & 19 were very fun to play with the visual limitations, and the fun flurries of color in the background, especially during the Boss Fight on Level 19.
In the second video, I played Levels 6, 12, 15, and 20, with visits to 8, 10, 11. Take Note of Level 20, it was quite beautiful, and the Vision of the Princess was partially visible. After 20, I circled back to Level One for some additional corruption, a Warp to Level Six, and a visit to Levels 5, 18, and 20, demonstrating the alternate corruption.
Link to video
"Setup + Awesome Corruption -- Levels 17, 18, 19"
Link to video
"Awesome Corruption -- Levels 6, 8, 10, 11, 12, 15, 20"
Here's a screencap of the Vision of the Princess in this glitch mode. You can see the original art was slightly bigger than the window, so now you can see more of her arm.
https://i.imgur.com/gPhLPQN.jpg
And a sample of the action on Level 20!
https://i.imgur.com/lRuUlms.jpg
I just finished a decent speedrun for the new "no gate skip" route. 14:11.153. Better Sprite 2a setup, and somehow, no timer bug on level 16, which means I got to keep my Invincibility Mode. I forgot I had it, and didn't do the invincibility shortcut on level 18. It saves less than 1 second though, so no big deal. I had a couple of mistakes on 2, 4, and 18, and I still haven't done all my practice on level 19 yet. I don't know if there's enough room to save 12 more seconds, and break the 14 minute mark, but I'll certainly try!
I don't think the u-turn underneath the crusher on level 4 is possible, because of the different hitbox for this sprite animation. But I may just be doing it wrong. I don't know. Anyway, certainly some room for improvement, but this is a good start.
I should clarify -- I made a post a couple weeks ago that I had a "console" run of 13:50 on this route. Remember, I have kept the distinction between runs that do or do not use a Console Reset Button. The reset button preserves the Kill Button, but resets the Prince's Sprite to default. For that "Console Reset" route, I activated Kill Button with a quick Warp to 8 and a console reset, which took about 33 seconds total. Whereas, here, I took 1:08 to setup a compatible sprite + kill button, with no reset. This 35 second discrepancy accounts for the difference. So far, I've been working from the premise that using the "reset button" is not allowed for official speedruns or TAS runs. I don't necessarily agree, so I'll just continue to work on both, and let the public decide which route they like better.
Link to video
"Speedrun - Warp 16 - No Gate Skip - 14:11.153"
Akuma, on level 1, it's possible to warp to level 4 on hole #4 of that map (located on page 5), but results on a few minutes left for this game. Do you know any other point where a warp to level 4 could be possible without losing much minutes? Because warping to level 16 decreases the timer, and with few minutes left...time up!
Can you post a video of warp to level 4? I was thinking about this the other day. Unfortunately, I've got 2 notebooks filled with warp pattern notes, and never wrote down the level 4 warp, so I forgot how to do it! Lol.
Once I can remember the basics, I will work on some alternate patterns, and see if I can clean it up. That time problem is definitely the biggest issue to solve.
I have a couple of funny updates too. I found a stable warp to level 8 which can be found inside level 3!
And I found a Warp to 18 Checkpoint. It is not a stable warp, but so far, I have been able to complete the game from 18 Checkpoint without a crash!
