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Totally deserves the 0.0 technical rating.
The TAS was done in one sitting with some errors accidentally saved, because I thought that once you stopped a recording, you couldn't restart it. ;)
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I think that two-player runs such as this one are particularly well-suited to storytelling. I like to see interesting characters with motivations to which I can relate in order to increase the entertainment value.
But the story need not be the love story that I attempted to incorporate. I think that a good idea would be for the plot of the movie to be that Blue isn't supporting Red... Blue is chasing Red because Blue wants to kill Red. Blue is a bounty hunter, perhaps. At all times, the player (Randil) could have the mindset that, amid the chaos, Blue's goal is to kill Red.
Thus, during the boss fights, we could see knife fights and perhaps other uses of weapons. Lots of jumping, ducking, near misses. Randil could make it look like Red is the one causing Blue to lose those lives (interpreted as needing medical assistance) before the last level. And then for the tragic, ironic finale, Blue finally closes in on Red, goes for the kill... and accidentally trips the mine, ending Blue's life. Pure Hollywood magic!
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First I shall congratulate you on your technical improvements. 25 frames is more than I would have expected.
I would like to share my comments on the entertainment aspect. When I made the erstwhile movie, I felt that I was the director of a very human film. You must understand that these two are forbidden lovers, and they are very passionately fighting against this repression. They openly display their deep affection for each other as an act of rebellion. But in this movie, I see them making nonsensical, robotic movements and only 'secretly' kissing. The plot has been stripped away. They have become killing machines.
I have not submitted a new movie since 2008. I have been busy with other projects, and I must admit that my last Maniac Mansion movie was a tremendous psychological burden from which I have not fully recovered. But I still have my ideas. And I would like to share one that I have for Rush'n Attack, so that it may, at least, break free from its current imprisonment in my mind.
My idea is to allow Blue to lose all but one life during the boss battles (when they do not have to move rightward). The battle with the dogs is a good choice, considering the lack of entertainment in that battle. Then, on the last level, I would allow Blue to get just a little bit closer to Red. When they approached the very tall ladder that they had to climb, I would have Blue duck down and trip the mine. Blue would be Game Over, but Red would be able to continue on without having to climb the ladder. I believe that this maneuver would ultimately result in a net gain in time.
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I enjoyed this movie very much. The battle against Ridley is simply marvelous combat.
I initially wondered what was up with Samus's dropping into the lava just after getting the Screw Attack (around frame 54000), but I see that it is indeed faster to kill the seahorse rather than jump over its fireball.
I assume that any instances of overjumping were either compensation for the screen's vertical scrolling time or for luck manipulation.
9.7 / 9.4.
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SaxxonPike wrote:
Is there anywhere online I can look to find out such things as the reason anyone would want to microwave the hamster?
You should probably check some psychology books for that info.
Really, microwaving the hamster is in the game just for humor and as one of the few ways to have a kid get killed. Independently, the two objects have important roles in the game. The hamster is technically an essential item, because it blocks the card key. (And since Ed protects the hamster, you must draw Ed out of his room.) The microwave is needed if you take the 'manuscript' route.
There are FAQs that tell you the purpose of each item. Are there some other actions about which you're wondering?
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SaxxonPike wrote:
Arc wrote:
However, I've done some thinking and some testing (desperately trying to find ways to get the movie to less than 7 minutes), and I've found a few improvements. The new movie's time should be about 6:55.
I realize that this thread is a bit dated, but I'm curious as to how the progress on this is going. What kinds of optimizations did you have in mind?
I've been working hard on the movie for the last month or so. I've found a lot of really interesting things. The new movie is going to blow the old one away.
I was initially kind of worried that I wasn't going to meet that 6:55 time I estimated, but then I found a great new timesaver. So now I think it could be more like 6:45.
I don't like to spoil it, but you're going to see something new involving green tentacle, a more efficient way to be captured, and more instances of two kids' being in the same room. And some other stuff.
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chaos548 wrote:
When you get out of the pool after getting the glowing key, use the other kid to go ring the doorbell (instead of going to push the gargoyle like in the movie). When you emerge from the kitchen, you will get caught by Ed
That's what I did in a few of my previous runs. The gargoyle method is faster because Ed won't respond to the second doorbell ring until he has returned to his room.
However, I've done some thinking and some testing (desperately trying to find ways to get the movie to less than 7 minutes), and I've found a few improvements. The new movie's time should be about 6:55.
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moozooh wrote:
What Tombad said. The movie is of incredible quality and I'm voting yes.
One question, though: that… goblin-thing you fight at 7600 and then just jump over, I assume it was done so that he wouldn't knock you off the ladder?
Thanks. I killed the big guy mostly because it affects the bird that allows the knight to escape from the house.
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150 frames faster on level 5.
556 frames (9.27 sec) faster overall.
Also, I tested my strategy for level 6, and it worked. If it works when I do it frame perfectly, it will save 1.5 to 2 seconds.
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I'm the Meh voter, because it ends with 864 timeunits in the last corridor, whereas you can see in the 'no minibosses' and '1-item' Metroid movies that 865 is possible.
The room cranking is very entertaining, though.
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Ok, after being stuck for a long time, I finally solved the level-2 double-boss battle.
I'm using the torch instead of the javelin, because I've found that there's a particular area at which it leads to noticeable time-saving. But, a consequence is that it was very difficult to match Guano's speed and range with the javelin against the two bosses at the end of level 2. I finally found a strategy that defeated them 3 frames faster than Guano did.
After two levels, I'm 193 frames (3.2 sec) ahead of the current movie. I have an idea for improving level 3, although it might not work. Level 6 also might have a notable improvement.
I wonder when it was last updated? It seems to be pretty outdated... My guess is that it's been about 12-18 months since the last update, judging by the TAS:es shown on that page.
The last update of my site's content occurred on 11 January 2006. I started the site in December 2003 because I wanted to assemble movies similar to Morimoto's SMB3. At first, things went well. Examples include my self-published Maniac Mansion movies and my Kung Fu competition with Deviance.
But with the rise of Bisqwit's superior site, at which I later gained Wiki editor privileges, my site became mostly superfluous. I tried to reform my site with more emphasis on writing, philosophy, and analysis. My 'On Cheating and Games' essay inspired the most-viewed forum thread at Vortiginous, but it was mostly me vs. the world, as it was in the 'Timeattack vs. TAS' debate, and so I stopped.
Today, my site receives about 30–40 hits per day, mostly from search engines. At its zenith, it received 2000+ hits per day, and the biggest day ever had something like 11000 hits.
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[Inzult] I need Arc or something to point out super tiny flaws, and quick.
Overall, I think that this movie is a virtuoso performance. But, here is a super tiny flaw.
When you swordbounce on a lift, you want to get as close to the wall as possible, i.e. the 'ideal' position in the above picture. I got into that position with multiple swordbounces—not by merely walking to the left. You could save maybe two or three seconds by swordbouncing over farther every time (and, thus, make the movie 48:5X instead of 49:00).
You also traveled over only one of the two faster non-swamp squares near the entrance of the swamp palace, but I assume that you seemingly couldn't avoid an enemy encounter if you did so.
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The new version on which I'm working completes level 1 31 frames faster than this movie.
I know the first part of level 2 (up to the escape from the house) can be done faster.
I have an idea that can (greatly) improve level 3, but I'm not sure whether it will work. Level 6 may also be improvable.
The second quest is unnecessary.
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First, I voted yes. Now I will mention problems that I see (on my first viewing, usually at 100% speed):
Opening:
-The name.
-Link can walk off of lifts that are going upward faster. His feet can go through the floor. This error persists throughout the movie.
Level 2:
-Did you absolutely need the P-Bag?
Level 3:
-Moved backwards after getting the key in the blocks.
-Breaking the double blocks does not look perfected (to avoid bouncing backward).
-Looks like you could be farther forward when you grab the boss' key. This problem happens elsewhere too.
Level 4:
-Banged into the key door before going fairy (the one where you had enough magic, not the red ironknuckle one).
-Carock fight is obviously not perfect.
I watched our level 4s side by side from the moment we get to the bottom of the entrance lift. We finish the level at almost the same time. BUT, lifts move a lot faster in the USA version. And you had the small advantage of not needing an extra key. Yours should be a few seconds faster.
Level 5:
-Fairy could have gotten off of the upward lift faster.
Level 6:
-Bumped into a wall in the cave on the way back.
-Getting the red magic jar from the statue isn't ideal. Get it from the red ironknuckle later.
-Went fairy too early when falling.
-Reflect isn't necessary.
-You jumped up onto the dragon's head. I fell into his lava pit and hit him on the first possible frame.
-Key grab was definitely not optimal.
Palace:
-Looked like you both briefly stopped and bumped into a wall on the way to the palace.
-Too much bounceback on a double block break.
-Trap Dark Link in the corner.
General:
-There are some places (especially the dark caves) where I suspect things were not done with frame perfection. The magic container cave in the level 4 maze is flawed for sure.
Overall, it should be published but not obsolete mine. The differences between versions make the Japanese version significantly more difficult. And people will be missing out if the Japanese version completely disappears.
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That's amusing that you're comparing two different games. I've said before (on page 2 of this thread and in another thread) that the American version could be done at least 5 minutes faster than the Japanese one (because of differences in the games).
I've been watching the WIP and it's sloppy and flawed in many places. But it's a good effort for a first-timer, and we need a movie for the American version, too.
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It bugged me about arcs run to see him running along side the cpu to force him to score.
I avoided this by running the ball to the 1 myself, fumbling and having to cpu recover.
I manipulated luck. It was difficult to make my own team avoid tackling him. Running backwards takes less skill and and is less realistic.
Calling the cpu's plays! Why do this? it would be more impressive to call a different play and stop them anyway.
I like the swarming.
If you wanted the ball back then force a fumble. If you want the cpu to score, then have them score on the first attempt.
I wanted them to punt.
on a extra point kick, arc pointlessly picks a man deep in the inzone.
Kickoff manipulation.
The coin toss is long and can be skipped.
Speed wasn't my goal.
at the end of the 2nd quarter, arc does a play from the 1 with about 20 sec left. He slowly runs all the way to the inzone. The timer said 0 for about 1 minute of that play, thus wasting a lot of time. That would be okay if it were something novel there, but instead it was you dodging a bunch of taklers, which is something that happens throughout the movie.
It's difficult for the incredibly slow QB to dodge the whole team for the whole length of the field. His reaching the end zone is somewhat unexpected.
5 minutes faster isn't something to ingore.
But it was 5 more minutes of action, not wasted time.
What do you guys think?
I'd link to this movie in the description of the current one; i.e. "adelikat has created a [[shorter, alternative movie]]."
Mine should be converted to .fcm if possible.
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I quickly noted game summaries for both movies:
adelikat's
pit ko return, fumble rec by sea
pit fumble return to sea 1
pit 115-yard pass int, sea touchback
sea pass to goal line
pit int
pit time-consuming run, fumble self-recovery, td, 7-0
sea ko return, fumble, pit @ own 1
pit long pass, fumble, sea td, 7-7
pit mid-field return, long field goal, 10-7
Arc's
ind ko return, fumble self-recovery, td 7-0
ind int, fumble rec by ne, td 7-7
ind 110-yard ko return, td 14-7
ne rush, fumble self-recovery, td 14-14
ind fumble out back of endzone, safety, 14-16
ind punt return, fumble recovery by NE, td, 14-23
ind ko return own 1, qb rush for 99-yard td, 21-23
ind punt return, td, 28-23
ne 96-yard rush td, 28-30
ind ko return to ne 1
ne int 95-yard td return, 28-37
ind 'matrix' catch, 99-yard td, 35-38, onside kick recovery
ind lateral is incomplete
ind top left corner to bottom right corner td pass, 42-37
ne drive: 4 1st downs
(movie stops early) ne stopped on one yard line to end game
Explain more about the reasons that you think that yours is more entertaining.
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adelikat wrote:
Had I been around when these things were getting submitted, I would have voted no on arc's
When I submitted it two years ago, it was an improvement to a movie that had been made on the 20 FPS version of Famtasia. But, it is bad by today's standards and should be obsoleted.
When you swordbounce on a lift, you want to get as close to the wall as possible, i.e. the 'ideal' position in the above picture. I got into that position with multiple swordbounces—not by merely walking to the left. You could save maybe two or three seconds by swordbouncing over farther every time (and, thus, make the movie 48:5X instead of 49:00).
You also traveled over only one of the two faster non-swamp squares near the entrance of the swamp palace, but I assume that you seemingly couldn't avoid an enemy encounter if you did so.