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Now that there are 100 starred movies, I think that 100 should be a hard cap. For every new star added, relegate one of the old stars down to moons. Some movies can't hold up as star quality after 5-10 years pass. Many of the ratings are dated to the time period when the movies were made. And 9 out of the 100 starred movies have a rating that starts with a 7.
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Arc wrote:
1. A game from a series that everyone knows and loves: Mario, Zelda, Mega Man, Metroid, Castlevania, or Sonic.
2. A movie that hasn't been published yet; something that would debut at the event.
3. A movie that is not just fast/perfect but shows something unexpected.
dwangoAC wrote:
First, I agree with the general sentiment that a TAS block that consists entirely of new runs made just for GDQ would probably be a poor choice for a number of reasons, the least of which is that we only have 10 days left and the quality of such submissions would probably be low.
I agree that we should not try to crank out a great TAS in a limited timeframe.
I'm not saying to start making a new one now.
But there is a GDQ every 6 months.
Anytime, now or in the future, that someone is finishing up something that they know is a significant improvement to a popular game (likely TAS of the Year candidate), they could privately contact dwango in advance to arrange to debut it at whatever the next GDQ is.
GDQ is our Super Bowl or WrestleMania-level event, we have to be at our best for it.
The high viewership is the incentive to make a great run and keep it secret for a few extra weeks/months.
If you publish your hypothetical amazing TAS right away, 5,000-10,000 people will see it.
If you save it for the next GDQ, 200,000+ people will see your work and talk about it outside of the site.
Also, the plebs should be able to understand what's special about what's being presented.
For example, Super Mario 64 '1-Key' would have been a good movie to debut at a GDQ (kept secret until then).
Because plebs would have been like 'omg they actually did the moat door, wowowow.'
The plebs don't really like when you play an old video from the site.
Imagine a keynote speech where a company talks about features released 3 years ago. Old news!
People want to see games done quick™.
Debut the hottest new time-savers that will get the plebs buzzing on plebbit.
Not just 'oh it's a bot making no mistakes, who cares?'
Stuff that breaks that game in a way that people hadn't thought possible.
And then combine it with good, fun commentary and you're golden.
Excellent suggestion.
But in case that one isn't picked, I would follow a simple formula:
1. A game from a series that everyone knows and loves: Mario, Zelda, Mega Man, Metroid, Castlevania, or Sonic.
2. A movie that hasn't been published yet; something that would debut at the event.
3. A movie that is not just fast/perfect but shows something unexpected.
SMB3 beaten in 2 seconds is a good example.
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I'm in the process of watching and rating every active movie.
1841 total active movies.
553 active movies rated as of today.
(695 obsolete movies rated.)
Which will happen first: I reach 100% or the rating system gets revamped?
(My goal is to reach 100% by 31 December 2018.)
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Arc wrote:
There's a movement trick that I wasn't aware of until now that saves 7 frames per use. Foda and Kyman weren't using it. I counted 9 screens where I could have used it up to this point. I can't go back and splice it in because it changes the enemy spawns. I would have to start over near the beginning of the game. It took me almost 2 months to collect olives, so I'm not going to redo it. If you're reading this post in 2026 and working on an improvement, keep it in mind.
I'm fixing this problem now. If the improved TAS saves 87 frames, the time will break the 10-minute barrier (9:59.98). I'll save 60-70 frames just from using the jumpturn trick. Most of the other frames will come from collecting olives faster.
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Bisqwit wrote:
No Rush’n Attack improvements in sight?
I don't know of any flaws in Rush'n Attack. The ideas that I tried earlier didn't save time.
But I am going to get The Battle of Olympus under the 10-minute mark.
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Inzult wrote:
Actually Arc, one thing comes to mind. In the published movie, after the second healer glitch we do the warp to king's tomb, to mido, to bagu's hut. I can't remember how good we were about checking this, but there's another way through Mido; this.
It trades movement in the town for screen loads.
Oh, very interesting idea. I gave it a shot, but it ended up 20 frames slower.
Inzult wrote:
e: there's also an alternate version of scroll lock where you enter the second door on glitch town. this changes where stuff loads in relation to link. also, if you pass the first door and return to it on a later pass through the glitch town, it changes how far the screen scrolls. these are things worth exploring.
They do sound like ideas worth exploring. No idea what, if anything, what be the result. I'm going to submit what I have now, though.
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Arc wrote:
153 238 frames saved overall.
I sliced another 85 frames off after I had said that I might be ready for Dark Link. 238 frames saved now. After I improved the encounter glitch spots, I got a chain of great luck. The timing change led to an improvement on the first death cycle, which led to better luck at the red fokka, which led to additional improvement on the second death cycle.
Note: the death cycle's 21-frame rule restores the frames that I gave up for luck manipulation, so those temporary losses aren't possible improvement spots, unless you can cut enough time to get into the preceding 21-frame cycle.
I think it's Dark Link time now.
Inzult wrote:
I had no other routing ideas besides what were included in the previous version of the glitched run. I wonder if there's a method to acquire the fairy spell without medicine, but I don't have any specific ideas.
The new Holy Grail of potential Zelda II improvements would be forced entry into the 3 ladies' houses (Ruto, Mido, and Darunia) without the MacGuffin quest items. I've tried the encounter glitch on the left and right sides of the Mido lady's screen, but neither exits into her house. I don't know how you could wrong exit into it.
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Arc wrote:
The warp-glitch run could use the encounter glitch on the bridge after exiting Glitch Town the first time (frame 1700). It could also use the encounter glitch on the bridge to Saria (frame 10000).
I'm near the end of the "warp glitch" branch update.
Encounter glitch at the double-bridge: saved 16 frames.
Overworld manipulation going to Hammer: saved 5 frames.
Encounter glitch at Saria bridge: saved 117 frames.
Overworld manipulation because of unlucky bot in DM: deducted -1 frame.
Encounter glitch at the first Maze trap: saved 23 frames.
Encounter glitch at the second Maze trap isn't possible.
Overworld manipulation when leaving the Maze: deducted -1 frame.
Red jar drop manipulation in the Great Palace: deducted -3 frames.
Death cycle #1 difference in the Great Palace: saved 12 frames (previous deductions undone).
Pre-red fokka screen in the Great Palace: deducted -1 frame.
Red fokka screen in the Great Palace: saved 11 frames.
Death cycle #2 difference in the Great Palace: saved 53 frames (previous deduction undone).
The Wall in the Great Palace: saved 4 frames.
Ceiling walk in the Great Palace: saved 1 frame.
Post-chute screen in the Great Palace: saved 2 frames.
153 238 frames saved overall.
Does anyone have any other suggestions before I redo Dark Link?
I didn't really examine anything other than what's listed above.
Edit: I am Error. Frames saved updated.
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AngerFist wrote:
Arc, might aswell complete a 100% run while you are on a roll :P
Maybe. It's a large time commitment. Also doing 100% kinda sucks for the person doing the TAS.
The most popular 100% speedrun category is all keys, no warps, no restarts. Not a very exciting TAS, I don't think. It would require overworld fairy manipulation again. With no restarts, if you made a slight mistake early in the movie, you'd desync everything afterward if you went back and fixed it.
If you allow warps and restarts, there's no longer a good reason to exclude scroll-lock, since it doesn't ruin the game in 100% the way it does under any% rules. So you're playing a lot with the screen graphics glitched.
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Kung Knut wrote:
Are any of the new techniques used in your warps and no warps runs also applicable in the glitched 5-minute run?
The warp-glitch run could use the encounter glitch on the bridge after exiting Glitch Town the first time (frame 1700). It could also use the encounter glitch on the bridge to Saria (frame 10000). So it looks like there are about 3 seconds of time saved.
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Inzult wrote:
A Thing occurs to me. Would it be faster to use the lady guarding Reflect spell to healer glitch into glitch town and exit darunia that way after grapping the spell? Probably not, it takes a while for her to spawn. But I'm curious.
I tried the healer glitch on her and it takes me into the house like usual.
Kung Knut wrote:
Thanks, Arc. Yes vote.
Thank you. Glad to hear that you liked the new elements.
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Sounds like that third fairy isn't going to happen. Heck of an effort, though. And the fairies we have are marvelous.
For some good news, the warps movie is finished. It is one smooth gem, let me tell ya. Very pleased with it.
Here's the schedule I'm hoping to keep:
18 Oct: Finish warps movie ✓
19 Oct: Finish warpless movie ✓
20 Oct: Prepare for submission ✓
21 Oct: Dual-submission party ✓
So Kung Knut, hide out in your bunker for just a few more days.
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Fairies at 3 out of 4 traps would be great. The small-6 count would be fine as long as 2 small enemies die at the non-fairy trap.
In the warps run, I'm in P6. Gooma went fine. It's a more entertaining fight because now he takes 36 hits instead of 16. The same will be true of Volvagia.
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I see only three options for getting through that screen.
There's the full speed walk via skettler kill as the 0 frame baseline, which doesn't work.
The fairy is +4 frames, but it will lose 29 frames later to open the menu.
The fastest possibility with a rear flame dodge is -2 frames.
In the hacked movie, Link leaves the cave at 663 and a fairy appears at 848.
If I leave the cave 6 frames later at 669, I still get the same fairy spawn.
Exiting at 678 is the last frame the fairy spawn works.
What's the 1 frame problem?
In the warps movie, I'm in P5. I like how Reflect/P4 turned out. Gooma with Attack-3 will be a pain. P6 should go according to plan. Rebonack II at Attack-4 is the most dreaded task remaining. Volvagia shouldn't be a problem.
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Wonderful. I'll get it cleaned up and redo the Great Palace. I'm making rapid progress in the warps movie as well so that I can submit both movies simultaneously. Assuming no unexpected surprises, give me maybe a week.
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These fairies are beautiful.
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/34282145847103301
I cut 32 frames off of the wait (in the final fairy file) at the non-fairy trap.
This result is also 23 frames faster than what is in the currently published movie.
I don't know if it's as good as it gets, but I could say the same thing about any part of the overworld.
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Those are indeed the fairies that dreams are made of. As I recall when I played it, I had only 6 enemy groups to choose from that still gave me a good graveyard/desert encounter. But I didn't try 21 frame delays. If it doesn't work there, there may be greater hope at the third trap, with the 2 caves and 1 overworld screen preceding it.
Update to the warps run:
I learned that the wizard in Darunia will not teach the Reflect spell unless you have 6 Magic Containers. So, I had to make some revisions. I will grab the easy MC near the start, and then do palaces 1, 2, and 3 in order, like the warpless run. The debate about 2-2-1 vs 1-3-1 was based on having only 4 MCs, and so it was just a big waste of time.
I will also have to grab the MC in the Maze before saving the child and going to Darunia. This route is still much faster than getting the MC in Death Mountain.
I still cannot use the fairy glitch in P3, because I need Magic-5 in P4. The Maze has to be one of the biggest bottlenecks in gaming history. However, now that we have 6 MCs, we no longer need to level up to Magic-6, but M6 would negate the need to pick up a small jar. So let's see if we can improve the leveling after 3-5-1.
The initial plan was (3 cancels, 1 accept):
P4 Crystal - Attack 4 Cancel (1000)
Restart (0)
P5 - Life 2 Cancel (50)
P5 Crystal - Attack 4 Cancel (1000)
P6 Crystal - Magic 6 (2200)
Attack-4 Accept after P4 would force another level later. But another possibility is (4 cancels, 1 accept):
P4 Crystal - Attack 4 Cancel (1000)
Restart (0)
P5 - Life 2 Cancel (50)
P5 Crystal - Attack 4 Accept (1000)
P6 - Life 2 Cancel (50)
P6 Crystal - Attack 5 Cancel (2000)
Without Thunderbird, it should be possible to make it through the GP and get a small jar without reaching 2200 XP (M6). But, is it worthwhile?
It's time saved on Reb II and Volvagia at Attack-4 instead of 3 (57? frames) vs. 29 frames for LC + 15 frames for jar drop + 3 frames lizardman's flying mace (47 frames). Although it may not be 57 frames, it probably is better to choose the estimate that offers the higher attack. I went back and forth multiple times on the 2-2-1 vs 1-3-1 decision partly because Horsehead took longer than expected at Attack-1. So I think I'll go with 4-5-1 over 3-6-1.
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That's amazing.
I used the new file with the 2 fairies and continued east to the Maze. I lost a few frames because of the changes in the enemy patterns, but I'm content with anything that works at all in that part. I edited all of the RNG parts without much difficulty. I got very easy spawns at the wizzrobes and Carock.
As expected, after the restart at the Boots, everything syncs perfectly, including Dark Link. The 2 fairies saved a net of 256 frames / 4.2 seconds. (Increasing the total savings over the previous movie from 407 to 663 frames.)
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/34192786141103242
I haven't polished this file for aesthetic presentation, but the frame counts are right. Are you still going for Valley of Death fairies? If not, I'll clean this file up and submit, eventually. Might as well submit the warpless and warps movies at the same time. The warps movie isn't going to take long to make.
