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KDR_11k wrote:
This could really use savestates at the end of the previous segment...
this is why you watch with the frame counter enabled and savestate at a convenient location. eg. near the end of the current movie. this way there isn't any waiting around, and you dont get stuck with a savestate that you have to rename and such.
in regards to the wip, all i have to say is 'wtf?' that's just crazy stuff JXQ. crazy.
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Pasky13 wrote:
For anyone who cares, Mother 3 is being released the 20th of this month :).
The 20th of this month has already passed, 11 days ago infact.
In regards to the actual subject of a tas of this game, I can't really see it being a feasible task, given the massive length of the game. For movement though, I'd imagine using teleport alpha and crashing into something only frames before teleporting would be a potential fastest movement method, with the only downside being the mp cost per use.
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/*- wrote:
does SNES9x have a snapshot feature? or, if it doesnt, are there any emulators that play SNES games that do (and you can still disable layers)? thank you in advance for any help given.
It does, f12 (by default, can be configured in snes9xI) snaps, and works with layer disabling, but only seemingly can save to png. Zsnes also can snapshop images with a user defined key (f1 is default, which brings up a menu with several options, one being snapshot), and can save as either png or bmp.
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Spoony_Bard wrote:
Ok, I asked around at an RPG forum, and it seems that it's a bug. Bleu learns the spells at 38 and 39, but she needs to actually hit 40 or so to use them. Not sure of the specific level, somewhere between 40-45 I believe.
Looking at some old ZSNES savestates I have, two of them have Bleu hacked to Lv99. In one she can use the spells, and the other she can't, strange. So there must be some sort of level trigger in Lvs40-45 that allows her to use em.
Well that seems to be the answer, anyway. Since she just hit 39 at the end of your movie have you tried getting her to 40 yet?
Ok, I did a little testing on this. turns out that its got jack shit to do with what level you're at. It seems there's some sort of counter (whether it counts up or down, I have no idea) on random (world map?) battles fought (not ran away from). I say (world map?) because when i went blasting through the queen, I must've fought a ton of enemies, but it still didn't give me access. I just gained another level up on the state I'm using to actually continue from the movie, and killed about a dozen random encounters on the overworld (admittedly, all with auto and no magic, but no magic usage doesn't seem to matter) outside hometown and gained access to them.
So hmm, looks like I'm in a bit of a pinch. Would more than 12 random *fought* battles to enable bolt x save more time than just skipping them and not ever being able to use bolt x? I'm leaning towards no, so this would more or less cancel out the need for extra levelling on k.sludges, which would make me a fair bit weaker, but potentially allow me to skip going over the 40AP cap if things work out (although unlikely). Fireball is actually the only spell I use with Deis anyway, since bolt x wasn't active. Hmm... decisions decisions.
Also, I'm definitely not doing a final version of this (if I do decide to anyway) until a memory viewer is added to snes9x, so I can actually manipulate useful enemy item drops *all drops seen in this run are complete and utter luck, no manipulation was involved*.
*pre-post edit* maybe it was because they were all 1 turn kills of the enemy? i dont know.
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I'm voting meh on this one also. It gets rather repetetive after a while, and given the length, this isn't a good thing.
It looked like in most cases, you grabbed things on the earliest possible frame, which I found kind of lame. especially with the dropping pole, you always caught it from the very bottom of it.
Overall, this is just a really bad choice of game for a TAS given the design of it.
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upthorn wrote:
Have now completed Speed Slider Zone, part one with a time of 12'94 seconds. Figured out optimal spindash technique. Discovered a way to exit a level without entering special stage, even if I have 50+ rings.
Updated the GMV in the first post, and added a link to a savestate for those who have already seen it. (Both new techniques are displayed after the savestate.)
Looks nice, but it desynced on both roms I tried that I had (JU, and JU[f1]) after about 9 seconds? on speed slider, you go flying up heaps high, then starting going right, and then make Espio hold and then Knuckles just runs right and left and right while he's anchored.
Still, quite impressive I say.
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new wip.
Finishes up my full game required levelling, so I'll get right back on track after I resume.
A problem, however, has risen. Deis, my sheer powerhouse of the magic field (who helps me in my 'dont bother with another dragon spell' kills), has pretty much gotten all her spells, or at least she will have her final one by the time I finish up in the queen. However, she can't use Missile nor Bolt X, despite having more than enough AP to do so. wtf is up with this? Can anyone give me a realistic answer on why she can't cast them (yet?)?
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This tas had me going 'dude, wtf?' for at least half of it (despite watching several earlier versions that had things done similarly). I love it when tas make you wonder just what exactly happened.
Totally a yes vote. Just like Vatchern, I think this movie is star-worthy also.
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Kaz wrote:
You can't transform for Deathevn since he kills your 3 party members.
You can, he might kill them but they come back in the form they were in upon death, so if they were bonded before, they're bonded after being revived by Anfini.
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Tub wrote:
The worst thing in a 100% run is buying those 130 figurines you need for the heart peace. That's not funny not watch and not funny to play, and IMHO reason enough not to touch the 100% category on this game.
True, but even more so is that to get 100% you need to beat the game so you can get the Mirror Shield. ending a movie after that would look really bad, and anything you do after that would be repetetive (eg. going to kill Vaati again).
Personally, in the case of Zelda and Metroid games, 100% runs aren't impressive to watch (for me). There's just too much time spent getting many things you dont even need at all to beat the game into submission.
No progress update on this just to note, past the last wip posted all I've done i gone and powered up the sword. I'll come back to it after the BoF2 test is done.
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SGreenwell wrote:
Would Ryu and other party members even be able to live through certain attacks without higher levels?
This is a TAS, you know. You'd be able to beat the game even without fighting K Sludges and the like.
Quite probably, although it would be somewhat painful, as I'd have less room for manipulation in terms of taking hits for favourable results I'm thinking. So far I've managed to work my way through a majority of boss fights without anyone dying (except sten, who I dont really care for and thus let die so i didn't have to test many other frames). I still have really sucky weapons though, which is a troublesome point. Perhaps the treehouse guy could fix that up in the next one, but that'd require saving him and I have no idea on if stronger weapons would even be useful. and save that much time.
SGreenwell wrote:
Also - Have you looked into using shamans and the transformations? I remember that some are much more powerful than others, which could be useful for dungeons and boss battles.
I can't speak for Atma, since he's actually working on this, but IIRC they aren't worth the time to get the shamans and then combine. There may be exceptions. Also remember that all of them get unattached near the end too.
Indeed, the only useful tranceformations are ones that use holy/devil(earth?) shaman, and those are the last ones possible to attain. not to mention theres the time transforming, and then the fact I run away from random battles successfully 100% of the time. The fact that they unbond is a key point in the 'screw it, I wont bother' case, as Enhasa mentioned.
Overall, I only need sten for like, 2 battles after i get jean, so its not really an issue since he just has to kill trubo, similar with nina except i need her for a while for the great bird.
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hmm... an annoying problem has arisen from these lovely and ever so giving k.sludges.
I've managed to get it down so i can kill them without too much difficulty, but after 3 lots of 3 its now at the point where it takes 3 w.fruits to max out the ap. while this isn't a major thing to worry about when at the level gained after those 3, pretty much the next boss will up the max ap to 43. 40/41 ap still gives max damage from a dragon attack (512), but 40/43 gives a fair drop of 460. This is somewhat bad.
While the level ups are appreciated in terms of other people doing damage, they make it a fair bit harder to use in the sense I need ryu to be alive to kill the k.sludges, but i dont want him to level up to cap out on the ap cost. Using Deis for 4 fights will only give her 2 levels ups, while everyone else gets about a dozen (as such she learns 2 of 4 spells she doesn't have that are stronger than the rest of their type).
what to do...
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no wip for this post, just moreso a status update than anything.
I've gotten the whale (joy!), Deis (Bleu, I will call her Deis from this point), and have started my long journey to pwnage. right now my team consists of Ryu, Katt, Rand and Deis, and I'm playing on giant isle.
I managed to kill one lot of triple k.sludges (and net an outrageous amount of exp at that), but not without Katt dying. Ryu/Rand gained 5/6 levels, Deis didn't get one, and it would seem that she's rather useless unless she gets her later spells. boo. at least she can use warp which will save time I guess.
While I haven't checked the charts, I'm thinking that 10-20 lots of k.sludges should be about right. 2 turns per fight, one menu access between for ap recovery, and reasonable allowance for manipulation, will give me about 210,000-420,000 exp which should easily cover me for the entirity of the game.
Potential changes when i have to get off of the isle for a bit include changing to Sten instead of Rand, and if she's at level 39, Nina instead of Deis, as those 2 have 'self' scenarios, which although not lasting long, would be troublesome if they're weak.
comments/suggestions/etc?
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Highness wrote:
Kejardon - I downloaded the ips patch today. So I bet it's the latest version avalible.
As did I, it worked perfectly for me.
I voted meh on this one. Personally, I think an any% run of this hack would be more enjoyable to watch, to me at least.
the following 2 things I question:
1) When you fought Mother Brain, I'm not actually sure on if it did or not, but it almost looked like one of the hyper beam shots missed and hit the hand and not the head. Did that actually happen?
2) You could've ended input earlier, as the moment you pressed down on Samus' ship nothing you press can actually make a difference as to what happens.
Overall, it was well played, but the item collecting was kind of dragged out a bit, which made it far less interesting (for me) to watch.
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Tub wrote:
me = addict. wine to the rescue! Although it has issues (lots!), I'm now watching your run.
On your quest for getting the worm, cockroach and golden fly for the cooking contest, you enter the windmill on the roof, pick 3x 1000c from the wall, then ride the elevator down. You don't need the cash down there, so wouldn't it be faster to grab it on your way back (somewhere around frame 379.800)? Or do the coins mysteriously disappear by then?
I didn't even think of doing that until I actually had done that entire part, after which i thought 'no fuck that, i'm not redoing that all now, its a test run'.
I also ran out of w.fruit during the boss fight, so I should ideally restock on those or buy more in the actual run should it happen (10 should do me until that scenario is over ideally).
Now its time for me to save at the simafort statue, have rand/jean/*/ryu and roll back to hometown. after that, I change characters to ryu/katt/nina/jean, and suicide to get back near simafort. then to play with the whale, joy!
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Mlandry wrote:
Atma ever since you made that minish cap test run in like 2 days ive been wondering, are you a machine ? :D
anyways keep up the good work, gonna watch this new wip
notice a trend? this is a testrun too. the minish cap run is barely 2/5ths done, and will be done after i finish this (I swear Tub).
Depending on some other input, i may or may not actually do a proper version of this after I finish, since the only part I, at least, find enjoyable to watch is the story parts and the (fought) battles, which are few and far between.
Since they aren't avoidable fights (essentially all but 1, *maybe* 2 fights I did were forced). I'll probably only fight another dozen escapable battles in the run in total, with them being fought on giant isle (I'm going to try my hand at some serious k.sludge manipulation, see if i can get 12 of those in a row, and have none of them pwn me).
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simafort done.
A savestate included for Zurreco's laziness, but I'd reccomend you make your own, its as simple as the touch of a button (or two) :P pretty much 2 hours long so far.
D'oh, I forgot Chrono Trigger was done. Hahaha, I lose. When I said 'four hour movie', that's what I really meant, but I thought of Mario RPG instead.
Well, the point is still kinda the same, what's one more hour, if we have a four hour movie? If you go through the trouble of making a publishable BoF2 TAS then I'd say it'll be published, 5 hours or no.
Chrono Trigger, however, is a popular game. This one isn't so much so. A lot of people I'm sure would find it boring to watch, and just fastforward through it to the fights.
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Spoony_Bard wrote:
The BoF3 speedrun is 11 hours, wow. I'll have to watch that pieces at a time.
This is looking to be a damn long one in its own right.
Current running time is 1:02:50, and I've just taken Ray to township. Could've sworn they were supposed to be finished by now :P
I estimate this will take in excess of 5 hours, which is pretty appaling, and would be rather pushing the limits of an acceptable movie.
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Nitsuja, is there a frame search feature in snes9x improvement v9? I looked around the menus and such but couldn't find anything resembling it.
If it isn't, do you think it would be too much trouble to add it to snes9x improvement?
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Enhasa wrote:
Atma wrote:
You could've made a thread about the game, to see if anyone had interest in doing it :P
Well, since all of the "popular" games have already been discussed, whenever someone not actually doing the run themselves makes a thread by this point, it usually doesn't really lead to anything.
Paritally true, I wasn't the only one considering this game, I can say that at least.
Atma wrote:
Hardly, press a on the last character that displays (usually) and it advances.
Even on the fastest text setting, the text advances faster if you hold on to A. Originally I thought you would have to let go of A for a frame, but you can just hit A to talk, hold on to it the whole time, and hit B to screen advance. It's not bad, but other games are easier, where people have just done it by holding on to turbo A.
I hold B for all text, as it's faster than just waiting, I think holding A gives the same speed, so either way it works out. realistically if i wanted to be lazy I could just hold B and turbo A, but eh, can't be assed.
Atma wrote:
Also, that run is on a 'todo' list, after a few others, and the last post was about a month and a half ago.
Just because the last post was a while back doesn't mean it's abandoned. He's still doing it after redoing Mario & Luigi and then running Lufia 2.
True, but occasionally such is what happens.
I like what you've done so far, although it isn't much. Still, I'm sure someone will get a bit upset that all the fights aren't theoretically perfect, but whatever.
They aren't, I can pretty well guarantee that. I could probably have manipulated more criticals on Katt (and Baba), although I was more or less just aiming to dodge the attack and avoid a counter attack.
The intro, however, is frame perfect, at least with the name 'Ryu'.
Also, chiming in that I would rather see a run for BoF 1 or 3, not 2.
BoF 3 isn't possible for tas, otherwise I'd so totally call it (its one of my two favourite psx games, the other being azure dreams which would have 0 tas potential since you can get to the top of the tower on your first try). I dont know how 1 would turn out, but the music is decent. It'd be nice to see some low level gremlin pwnage for sure though, that boss is one hell of a bitch to kill.
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Truncated wrote:
In any case, I think this submission will be rejected, based on the big amount of negative feedback it has received.
It may have received negative feedback, but it does indeed have more yes votes than no or meh combined.
The first lap is a little surprising, what with the squeezing between the dirt and barrier, while the second - fifth are practically the same.
While I myself haven't voted on this, I personally think that this would fit well under the 'concept demos' category, as a full tas for this game would be a massive undertaking.
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Spoony_Bard wrote:
I'm glad to see someone attempting this game, it's probably my favorite of the series, closely tied with 3.
3 is by far my favourite, if it were possible I'd tas that instead :P
I wonder, will you be bothering at all with Township? You have to get it set up as part of a plot point, but will you be recruiting anyone? I think some of the townspeople could be useful, perhaps the cook who can mix items together?
I'm not decided on this yet, but at the very least I'll probably get baretta for her armory, if she takes one of the top 3 houses, since I doubt I'll bother with building the other 3/ I'll probably go for the normal house dude, because he can cook, but the weird house dude i might consider, if only to check my stats after i beat the game :P
Current progress is here. I might contemplate redoing the entire part from corsair, instead of doing what I did now, I might deposit cash, purchase stuff, and save, then go kill baba and die afterwards to return (I think it'd be faster, but I'm not 100% sure).
comments are welcomed.
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TheAxeMan wrote:
Once you get Rand you'll be able to avoid all outer-world battles. Also, I'm surprised you didn't use Bow's shot ability, is it easier just to get special hits?
Shot doesn't work on bosses, otherwise I would certainly have used it on them to end it in 3 turns.
Enhasa wrote:
I am so glad that someone finally has posted about a BoF game!
You could've made a thread about the game, to see if anyone had interest in doing it :P
Anyway, it might not be extremely useful at this point, but Dragondarch over at SDA is working on a BoF2 run. I'd like to help, and I know the game decently, although admittedly I remember this game the least out of all 5 of them. I think it'd be annoying to do a TAS though, since optimal text advance is more difficult than most games.
Hardly, press a on the last character that displays (usually) and it advances. Just to note, I think "A" is a stupid name regardless of whether or not it saves time, as the text scrolls slow enough that you can read it, not to mention you see it like everywhere else (battle, menu's).
Also, that run is on a 'todo' list, after a few others, and the last post was about a month and a half ago.
Ryu is required, Rand is a given, Bleu is basically a given (I think, maybe not true in a TAS since you have to go get her), so there is only one spot left in question. This is easier to decide in a TAS because you don't have to worry about surviving, so whoever does the most damage: Katt?
I'm fairly certain Katt will be a prime party member for the whole thing, she has utter shit defense but that's not really an issue, though I may buy some armor for convenience (take a hit here and there if its faster to do so in battle, eg. dying to save time, which i shall do at least twice, once already done, with minimal cash loss).
I think Bleu will be worth it, since she starts at like level 35, which will be quite high compared to the rest, and she gets killer stat gains every level to boot. I'm thinking the other person will either be nina or rand, I guess it depends on the situation (for example, I'll certainly use sten when going through infinity to take shortcuts) depending on how far between dragon statues depends on who i use between that time, and what i can do between that time (eg. if its a long ground distance which stops happening not too long after getting jean, i'll use rand in place of/addition to the other 3).
I have a save beating the game at level 26, so levels will be ok in a TAS, especially since you will be able to easily run away from everything. You might still want to fight C Sludges or Giant Island enemies to make things faster, but I'm not entirely sure if it's worth it since Ryu will be doing most of the damage.
I think one quick levelling session might do, and it shouldn't take long, maybe 5-10 a.sludges would do. Mainly just to bolster Rand a bit for his 1v1 since he fights an annoying enemy who isn't exactly weak, and he is required for st.eva church.
PS - One question: are you shooting for the best ending?
