Posts for Bag_of_Magic_Food

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I think Pinkie Pie was in it.
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AnS wrote:
It's just the norm, hi-quality design (which sure becomes rare thing nowadays) - a design that doesn't require any explanations which would ruin the fun. By the way: http://youtube.com/watch?v=8FpigqfcvlM There's a way to teach any non-obvious game mechanics. It's just that only a few game designers can do it without going down to awkward methods like text tutorials.
I liked the parts about teaching game mechanics subtly, including making fun of Rockman Complete Works's unnecessary hint system, but I think when he was explaining the basics of MegaMan X, he missed an opportunity to compare and contrast X's dash ability to the original MegaMan's. You see, a player of the classic MegaMan games might see that and think, "'Dash'? Psssh, that's not a new ability, that's just sliding from Mega Man 3, only with the sprite flipped over." But the way they're used differs between the series enough to highlight the differences between the series in general. Sure, the original slide mechanic may have seemed like a nice aid for slipping past fast-hopping bosses, escaping enemies that chase you, or just getting across flat, boring terrain faster. But at the same time, it introduced passages half MegaMan's height that force him to slide into them, where he can't shoot or stop moving, and they can also form one-way gates when the floor at the end of the passage isn't longer than the ceiling. Whereas X doesn't run into those passages all the time, the floors can be sloped instead of stepped to help him dash longer distances, and dashing can be combined with other actions to enhance their output: Jumping during a dash makes X jump at high speed to clear longer gaps; with proper button timing, X can even dash-jump off a wall to help scale wider rooms; and for some reason, shooting while dashing makes the lemon do twice as much damage, because suddenly acceleration really makes a difference in strength of impact now I guess! So while the basic idea is the same, MegaMan's slide is used to create new hindrances for him, while X's dash is used to make him even more awesome in the hands of an adept player. You can see how this distinction was kept in mind when Capcom started making Bass a playable character in the platformers: Bass gets a dash move that, like X, makes him soar faster when chained into jumping (as if being able to jump off air isn't enough?), but only MegaMan's slide is able to fit into the thin passages leading to bonus goodies, as that was one of its original purposes. For other ways X made the old game mechanics nicer, you could say the energy tanks were changed to make the player stop worrying so much about losing them forever, and also to make the scattered energy refills more useful if the player doesn't have enough trouble in the levels to need them where they are. Then the Buster upgrade seems to show a thought process of "Well, collecting another nine weapons is fun... And charging up one weapon is fun... So charging up all the weapons will be the most fun!" (I get the feeling that some of the later games may have ruined some of this good design, like how X 3's random empty boss rooms ruined the feel of boss rooms in general, but that's getting into complaining about games I haven't played yet.) But have you seen the previous video in that series, the Castlevania 1 vs. Castlevania 2 one? In short, Castlevania 2 was an example of how mixing two good game concepts doesn't always work, as they can end up emphasizing each other's weaknesses rather than their strengths. But then Castlevania 1 was also a good example of how a more limited control scheme can actually make a difficult game fairer and more interesting, as you have to be creative to work around the limitations, yet there's less wiggle room for error once you've worked out a winning strategy; and that's how I explain the appeal of games like the Dizzy series.
Warp wrote:
I have never understood the charm in achievements. Some people seem hooked to them, searching every single useless item in the game just to get some kind of "all items found" achievement, and so on. I don't see any reason to do so.
I haven't played a lot of games with achievements myself, but I can understand how they could take the fun out of coming up with your own achievements when there's already an official list of them. To use MegaMan X as an example again, many players will eventually say "Forget turning into that Mary-Sue Zero! I'm a bad enough dude, I'm gonna beat the whole game as plain vanilla X!" And that would be exciting, since it's something you're not really expected to do, and at certain points you may have to re-evaluate how feasible it is, get some discussion going about what's possible. But if it were on a list of achievements, you might be saying "Oh, great, so I have to go through the whole game all over again, but forgo all the upgrades this time, just to complete my list of tasks? This is gonna be torture..." I think there could be some Mark Twain theory of work vs. play going on here.
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Ferret Warlord wrote:
It'd be like dismissing a children's book on the basis of not being Shakespeare. Now the G3 cartoons...
...really are Shakespeare!
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Why is only one of Pinkie Pie's eyebrows colored?
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Oh yeah, I remember their Overdrive Ostrich map was missing a bonus room.
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Cool! By the way, if anyone worries they might be missing out on something by watching the second Dizzy game first, I just found this commentated play-through of the first Dizzy game, which was the basis for this retrospective of the whole Dizzy series along with footage of the Amiga games. (Although now as I watch it, it's becoming apparent that he's not just editing out the boring parts in post, but is stopping the recording whenever he expects the next part to be boring to save disk space, since sometimes it skips over what could have only been a few seconds of play, and sometimes it skips over when he actually accomplished something.)
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Post subject: Re: "Outsmarting" a video game
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I'd have to agree with you some there, pirate_sephiroth. Far from feeling smart, I think being tricked into figuring out a key gameplay mechanic long after I could have used it would only make me feel like a sucker for not finding it sooner!
VirtualAlex wrote:
It is a different matter entirely when you outsmart the game and the developers did not intend it. That is simply poor design, and although you can be proud of yourself, it isn't the same situation.
Darn right I'll feel proud of myself! What makes it even better is if the glitch accesses content that was supposed to have been locked away forever, whether deliberate or not. I bet everyone's heard of the glitches to allow capture of every species of Pokemon in the first-generation games, with no external devices needed, only well-timed actions, completely subverting the "social" (consumerist) aspect of the game. I discovered such a trick when I tried the DOS port of DJ Puff's Volcanic Capers last month and got to a jump in level 5 which is fairly simple to make in other versions of the game, but proved to be impossible in this version, as I tried it over a hundred times with all kinds of different approaches and no success; DJ Puff would always bump up against an overhanging block that caused him to miss the next platform. So once I was out of ideas, I decided to kill off Puff's last life in a slightly more interesting way by having him attack a block as he fell into a pit, just to see if they hid a secret in that block for some reason. But I messed up and ran off the moving platform too late, and instead of falling into the pit, Puff got shoved forward halfway into the wall! It was far enough in that Puff was considered to be standing on the wall bricks, but since there's no upward terrain collision in that game, I was able to scale the wall by simply jumping straight up, taking me up to the remainder of the level! So now that I've finished the fifth and final level, I'm only left to wonder, did the developers mean for me to do that? I mean, would they have changed the method of completing the level to that just for the DOS version...? Did they even test the whole game? To me what it feels like is some play-tester got to that part of that level, went through all the same stuff I did, and upon scaling the wall, said "Oh, so that's how it's done! Yup, game works!" and called it a day. I think when we talk about outsmarting games, we should really be talking about how we have to be so much smarter to win when the games are so stupid.
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I was just gonna say the Internet makes everyone overreact to everything.
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Yeah, here's how the original sounded: Link to video It's funny how the Nintendo version's in-game music is based on the song from the ZX Spectrum and Amstrad CPC versions, but its title song and death song sound more like how they were done on Commodore 64, Amiga, and Atari ST, and its expanded level design is shared by those last two computers too. What's also interesting about the NES version is that pressing Start gives you the option to switch off the music and only hear sound effects as you play. All the sound effects but the footstep noises already play when the music is on, though, so there's not much point to that mode but to get some peace and quiet. It's just a cute throwback to old computers like Commodore's that were evidently hard to program to play music and sound effects simultaneously on, so a lot of developers didn't bother and gave users the option to hear one or the other. I read somewhere that Treasure Island Dizzy was CodeMasters' first NES game, before they got a real development kit and learned all the cool graphics tricks they would use in later games, so that gives it a kind of hacky pirate feel. You can tell they used a really inefficient method of loading graphics if you open the Name Table Viewer or play a copy of the ROM without proper bank switching, as you will see the new backgrounds slowly pasted onto the play area during the second that the screen goes blank. The other two Dizzy adventures for NES loaded new areas much faster. I'm not sure CodeMasters' programmers ever quite got the hang of the sound engine, though, as a few of their other NES games had no in-game music or next to no sound effects, and then there was the infamous Dizzy the Adventurer soundtrack with the clipped waveforms... But they continued to make great use of trilling! :) As for the speedrun, I like the improvements from the first movie goofydylan8 made, but I wonder if it should have been redone from the very beginning one more time instead of simply editing obvious improvements in. I mean it's pretty good, but I would like to try a few more route possibilities in the future, maybe if I ever feel like doing a whole TAS again.
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I'd probably have to agree with goofydylan8 about the warps. I recall Boco's route used them, but in my mind they always either leave you stranded in a bad way or force you to set up the use of more warps and waste too much time on them for too little gain. Like, yeah, you could grab the magic pebble, warp twice to get the flippers, and warp back, but then you only have one slot left to transport objects while swimming. I'm surprised so many people don't like the music! I think it works in a Mario kind of way. Link to video
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Hah, I'd forgotten you could use the dynamite without hiding behind the block at all! :P So I liked seeing the improvements, but the parts you did the same just made me wonder what suggestions you tried that didn't pan out. What about your idea to jump over the first fish while still letting it swim over to the right far enough to let you back up? And was it really more efficient to grab the dynamite from the left, after the deep coin?
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Yeah I guess it's time for the pirate ship stuff now. Blackheart's ship, blue version Blackheart's ship, red version Bubble pit, blue version Bubble pit, red version Not much to say about the bubble mini-game, but that it was a very quick one to map in the blue version, while the stars were a little annoying to capture because they drag a few pixels behind while scrolling, as usual. It didn't seem beneficial to add any other sprites, because you can guess Dizzy is going to fall straight down to the middle from the end of the plank, and then the bubbles are random. I like how the second bird you see on the first section of the ship is on a very long leash, able to fly anywhere above that top deck. A lot of the stars in the red version there were added to make you have to walk into the dead-end passages that otherwise served no purpose but to confuse you, but then there's just one silly star added to the bottom-right corner that you can't miss because it's right on top of a key item. And on top of that is an acid drop that falls very infrequently compared to the others; interesting that they bothered to include a "frequency" variable for a simple enemy like that. The one major change to the terrain was up in the rigging, where the first jump to the left needed its platform extended of course, but then a long platform on the right was actually shortened so that you can continue jumping to the right once you land on the second rope point below that. Oh, and they added another star on the far right, so ignore what I said about hanging onto the rope unless you're playing version 1; you'll have to stop and go to that star on the right first, then either climb up and over or swing back over to the left, whichever turns out to be faster. Also, as I was messing around with poking Dizzy's position, I found that the platform Blackheart stands on is real, but Dizzy can walk through Blackheart harmlessly up there, hm. Messing with Dizzy's position to get him in the water there, around the outside of the ship, and/or underneath the boarding ramp, also drops Dizzy into glitchy versions of other areas where many of the enemies fail to appear, Dizzy can't interact with any objects but stars, and edge exits lead to the wrong places. (I recall seeing a way to do this without cheats, I think by jumping backwards onto Blackheart on Dock Street, but I can't find the video about it now.) I think it's similar to some glitches done in TASes of early MegaMan games, where part of the game code thinks the hero character is in one place, while another part of it thinks he's many screens away. Something this reveals about how the game is coded is that death pits are objects placed at absolute coordinates, not part of the regular terrain, as in the glitchy mode Dizzy will simply fall through them into new areas, even the forest pit full of spikes! The waterfall pit traps Dizzy at the bottom, though. Also interesting is how the trigger for "walking the plank" is quite the hard X-coordinate check, as there's no way to escape from it once you've passed it: Even if Dizzy is falling under the plank, the bottom edge now takes him straight to the bubble game! So I may not have drawn any ropes, but I did feel like mapping the door of that locked compartment in both positions. Something strange I learned you can do there is to stand in the middle of that space and continuously jump in place. Every other time Dizzy reaches the next screen, he'll take a smidgen of damage from something you probably can't see: It's a mouse, which is first spawned in mid-air there, but is suddenly warped over to its boundary on the very next frame. It's just a dumb side effect of the way enemies are relocated when a new screen is loaded. I learned a few things on the way to Blackheart, too. Did I ever mention that in the NES versions of the game, if you jump into the end of a tunnel, Dizzy will automatically jump out of the tunnel in a standing pose when he appears on the street? It turns out that if you hit B at the right moment as Dizzy exits a tunnel, he may slide out of there at running speed while spinning around to grab/drop something. So that's another way to drop an object without stopping, even when you aren't collecting something at the same time. You can even combine A and B to make Dizzy jump and grab at the air, which may be the easier way to do it in real time. And if you're ever forced to wait out the time Dizzy spends eating a fruit for some reason, jumping before grabbing it so that Dizzy jumps in place while eating is funny too. I noticed that when you throw the meat to the boar, it takes away your ability to pick up objects for a few seconds longer than normal; even trying to pick up objects during a jump doesn't work. So, uh, I guess it really doesn't help to try to set down your stuff and pick it up in a new order there. As I was going for screenshots of buying the magic bean today, I rediscovered a trick I learned in the Genesis version that also works in the NES versions: You can fall through the space beneath Dylan's elevator from where you grab his door key, so long as you've already plugged in the elevator key. The cool thing is that even if the elevator has already descended, you can trick it into going back up by simply jumping anywhere on the right half of that platform that held Dylan's door key. Another thing I wondered about as I traveled was how the game is a bit inconsistent about whether Dizzy will roll when he jumps down from a height of 16 pixels, such as up 2 stairs in the town. He usually doesn't if I start him from a standstill by jumping in place first. By the way, I wonder if I should have started using the Name Table Viewer sooner, if only to see where the true edges of loaded maps were. I noticed that in the mine cart game, the stuff on the right side of the name table was just a big field of tile 03, followed by the status bar, so that would explain the pattern I was seeing when the screen shook. (Can you tell that I've been sitting on this post for a few days during the site's downtime?) I also played the SMS version again just to compare a few things, and while I was messing around, I got up to Shamus with the magic bean but not the shamrock. So I tried inching up to him while dropping the bean, and eventually I got the beanstalk to sprout, even though Shamus was still in the way. I couldn't jump onto the stalk without getting knocked back, but as Dizzy's damage maxed out on the last jump, he got knocked upwards and landed on the cloud above. Surely enough, this started Dizzy out on the cloud when he returned to life, meaning that bribing Shamus to move is no longer necessary to reach Zaks' castle in that version! It does mean wasting 2 extra lives to transport 5 objects up there, though. Sometime someone should test whether this actually requires the beanstalk to be there and whether it works in any other version of the game. I also discovered that opening the inventory in the SMS version resets where Dizzy will respawn after he dies. It's probably not too useful since all you could grab and snap back from would be stars, and you'd typically be fine with going back to the room entrance anyway, but it's nice to keep in mind if you need to kill off Dizzy for any reason.
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goofydylan8, I reviewed your movie a few more times, and I think I've come up with at least one good idea for improving the route. Since Hookjaw's cursed treasure is the first treasure you collect, before you enter the other grave at all, why not take the treasure to the shopkeeper straight away, then take the first boat part to the pier, collecting the large brass key at the same time? That should save you a trip to the pier. Perhaps you could also bring the magic pebble and collect the flippers on the same trip. Since you collect the sticks of dynamite alone, you could take the flippers along when you do that and collect the deep coin on the way back to the left side. This would mean you would only collect one item, the bag of gold coins, on your last trip to the left, but being able to swim on your last two trips through the water may make it worth it. The tricky thing would be whether you can push certain items ahead on the list of things to be taken to the right. For the magic pebble, I imagine you could swap where you first left it with where you left the infra-red detonator, meaning it would be only a one-screen detour to collect the pebble again after escaping Hookjaw's grave--but you'll have to drop the treasure on the right first so you don't get struck by lightning! Then if we're taking the pebble to the right in place of the grave-digger's spade, that means the spade has to be taken to the right on an earlier trip in order for the dynamite collection plan to work. If it's being brought over along with the fire-proof suit, then Dizzy will have to go back for it after prying the rock from the fissure. In this case, there might be good reason to jump to the floating island twice, or at least onto the ship again after leaving the spade at the official pogo place. Don't forget that the air pocket underneath the fissure could also be used to shuffle the inventory safely. This calls for some experimentation. Another thing to do is to go through and see if any of Dizzy's jumps could be improved so that he gets snagged on walls less or avoids rolling too far in the wrong direction.
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Here's a movie that gives you control on frame 240. It is important to be able to use both Reset and Power and know the difference, as Reset is required to perform the logo skip trick, while Power is the only way to go back to the game menu. Hey feos, I didn't realize until now that you were the one who made the Super Robin Hood map! It looks like you improved it some since I last looked at it, too, with transparency for things that aren't always there. I once edited your old map to have labels that show what affects what. If you think it's worth VGMaps having, you could re-edit it to your liking and submit it from both of us.
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You could always adjust the volume the movie plays at later, couldn't you?
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goofydylan8 wrote:
For the bridge portion I tried (though I can try again if I redo the movie) and I could not get him lined up in a way so that he would chop the bridge but not fall in immediately if I was on the left side. Cycling through the other items is required so unless I somehow made an error in my test we would either need to replan the item order or have him chop from the right.
I see. Well, one thing I like to do in real-time runs is arrange the inventory so that the axe is at the bottom when I get to the bridge, and press B three times. The result is that Dizzy recycles his other two items back into the bottom two slots at the same time that he chops through the bridge, leaving the top slot open for collecting the treasure already. And I can't remember if this works in the NES version, but you might be able to begin walking to the right even as the bridge falls out from under you. I forgot to mention the CodeMasters logo skip in my previous post, so if you didn't already read about it in another topic, here it is: When you select your game, hit Reset immediately, and when the logo appears again, you will have the ability to press Start to end it sooner. Don't forget that Boco was planning a no-coins run, so if collecting all thirty coins added less than 53 seconds to the total time, then that's not bad!
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Thanks for doing a test run, I was just thinking about this game when you posted! Your route is interesting, and if anything the main flaws lie in the coin collecting. For one thing, you could have hit the first bee while jumping forward. And when I go for the coin on the right side of the treehouse complex, one screen up, I would either climb there from underneath and proceed to the left, or jump from there to hit the bee... But that's not as clear-cut, I suppose, since I can kind of imagine how the detour you used might take less time. I do think that when you chop the bridge, it would be a good idea to check if it's worth stepping over to the left side first so that Dizzy can fall in to the right. I really didn't understand why you pogo-ed onto the island twice. It's not a problem to leave the pogo stick there if you've taken everything else, right? I expected you to drop down from the island to reach the coin on the top of the ship, but instead you swam over to it with the flippers at a point where you didn't need to go that way for anything else. I also wanted to question why you detoured to the right of the big fish for one coin and then went back to jump on the island again, but I'm not so clear on if going there might have helped kill time waiting for the pufferfish platform to descend, accounting for the two extra screen transitions, and debatable stuff like that. One could argue "Grabbing the flippers early would save you from having to wait for that pufferfish before," but that would take up another precious inventory slot, and crossing the island isn't a quick process. It's like how I wanted to suggest jumping over the very first red fish, but I just checked and discovered that while it's possible to jump over it to the right, going back to the left doesn't quite work, so it's better to get all the wait time out of the way on one screen. When you had the bag of gold coins at the top of the inventory, I think my approach would have been to give it to the shopkeeper immediately, drop the boat in, then go back and use the magic pebble which would then be at the top of the inventory. But I suppose it isn't a big change from how you did it, since that just swaps a couple of sequences around, though it may be worth checking whether it changes how much stopping to cycle items Dizzy does. I was also wondering if it would have helped to place the brandy and diamond slightly closer to the grave, but then I remembered you scooped them back up from the left after using the flippers to collect coins, so it wouldn't have made a difference unless we changed the coin collecting around. :) Just so you know, you didn't need to start a new topic. Boco already made one, although I had been posting new findings in the Quattro Adventure topic more lately. Did you see my maps of the game on vgmaps.com?
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I know, CoolKirby! The "64" thing is just a retronym, like "Earthbound 0", and it's not even necessary here because the site will indicate "N64" before the game's name.
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They could go back to direct-to-video movies.
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Hah, did Retsupurae bring this game to someone else's attention here?
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I think the Top Spin was meant to allow you to bounce away from all enemies safely, as I've occasionally had that happen on certain bosses, though I haven't studied whether there is a TAS trick that would allow you to do that to any boss every time. But were you shooting ShadowMan during his invulnerability period? Was that just for fun, or was it to force him to do something, or was a mistake you need to check for next time? If it was just for fun, you should do it more often to make it obvious. By the way, I think you entered your YouTube link wrong.
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"Genius poet" sounds closer to the impression I get when chatting with him.
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Post subject: Re: Mega Man 3
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I like this goal!
Mister Morn wrote:
Enemy spawners, like those bees and the penguin generators in Gemini Man, can be handled with the following logic: if you kill the generator, everything it might have generated dies too. If it has time to actually spawn something, kill the thing it spawns. Simple.
Is this why you didn't bother attacking the bobcats' yarn balls, because they blow up with the bobcat anyway? Or is it because you would get fleas the instant after you destroyed them, then more yarn balls the instant after you destroy those?
Mister Morn wrote:
The only section I can think of where it would be an issue is on Needle Man's stage, where there's a dead-end lower path with a Met and a large weapon refill. It would be silly to have to keep going back every time you kill the cannon, so going down once and killing the Met ought to be good enough.
I think this should make you have to plan your route so that you're never forced to leave an enemy intact just because you didn't have the right weapon to reach it. In this case, I think you could carry Magnet Missile to attack through the floor.
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feos wrote:
Oh, this shall work in EVERY level!
Oh hang on--do you mean there's a point after touching the flag where the next level is already unlocked from the title screen, so you wouldn't have to just sit there waiting for all the tallies to pop up? That's a good idea... ...And I see now that Scepheo already did that. See, this is why you explain your movie when you submit it, so we know what interesting techniques you used!
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feos wrote:
Hmmm, I think after you finish level 7 the game window closes or something like that. Is it correct?
It's after you view the ending that the game closes. That's why I said that for a complete run, you should go back to the title and re-select level 7 after collecting the last gem, so you can immediately use the portal to reach level 8.
feos wrote:
Also, collecting all gems and letters might be interesting to challenge, the last letter appears only on a recent layer on level 8.
I don't know what you mean by "letters", so I'm guessing that's a new feature in the paid version.
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