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Truncated wrote:
Did someone find the vibrato button 1 week before shipping and decided that all notes in all tracks in the whole game must have it?
Was that on the Famicom Disk System's sound chip? And was LXXX XXXXT included on that list? I want to know what that game is.
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Great, I was able to make time to watch your movies today. Well, I watched the one on nicovideo first, and it was okay; it did remind me of some things I forgot, like how nice it is that the CountBombs go off on the entire area at once rather than cascading down the columns. Does it only go up to KnightMan? It's hard for me to find things on nicovideo without knowing Japanese, but I guess it would have been all "Throw Prism, throw TreeBomb" the rest of the time. With proper luck manipulation, I don't think RockMan would have needed those extra Prisms, and yeah, I think that one map simply mislabeled the Prism Q as a Prism *, sorry. But your run was a lot nicer so far! I did see you stop to pick up more goodies in the early part of the game, but the battles go so fast now with the mix of swords and V-Guns you used, and I guess the cheap chips could help you make trades you need later. I didn't see you PowerUp your Buster at all though, so I guess you won't be using the Mega Buster except for luck manipulation? Anyway, there was barely any hesitation that I noticed, except in the Hardheads battle, but then I guess that's just how it goes with Hardheads, huh? Actually I'm just impressed that you're able to plan 5 battles in a row like that. Are you planning to win your money back when you enter Netopia, or will you just go broke in that part of the game like the other run did? There was one thing I wasn't sure about in your run, in the Lan part of the game. When you enter the campground, you have to pick up three objects after running into the bees, but did you know you can hit Start to skip the conversation once you're ready to remove the bees? It was strange to me too, since you end up skipping a dialogue that would otherwise require you to make the correct choice before it would let you proceed, but it works. So I think that ought to be changed in the final run, unless you already tested it and the fade-out was longer or something. And please post links to playlists of any other Rockman.EXE TASes you find, since I'm not good at searching for them!
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Hmm, I just remembered that the "Balloon Trip" song from Balloon Fight uses the trilling at one point, so there's an example in an early Nintendo game. I also remembered I listened to the soundtrack for the Commander Keen game for Game Boy Color once, which used not only trills but also many rapid 3-note arpeggios throughout. Another connection I made in my random music searching today was that the first NES Bomberman's bonus stage music used an effect I read was called "tremolo", pulsing the same note rapidly.
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Yes, and now I associate trills in NES music with horrible fast food and forgotten contests. :)
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Hey everyone, I meant to post another update a few months ago, but I kept putting it off. I really should have done it sooner because I edited important information about improving the last run into the last post, and I bet not everybody noticed the edit. :) The main thing is that I now understand the basis of some glitches I had been using and some that I missed. Basically, whenever Linus stands beside a solid wall, the game gets confused and thinks he's standing in front of every object in the area, allowing him to pick up or use objects before running to them--and if you stop his movement early, he can get those objects without ever having stood next to them. Using an exit takes place immediately with this glitch too. It even happens by accident to most players in a couple of sectors of the space station, where Linus falls off a block he can't climb back up on the way to the exit, and that counts as a wall which triggers the glitch, with the effect that Linus appears to be running against the side of the door rather than proceeding to the middle of the doorway. Height checks are still in effect, though, and in fact can work against you in other outer sectors if you select the exit door while Linus is standing against a wall and on a floor that's at a different height than the door: The height check happens at Linus's current location rather than his final destination, and the game tells you he "can't reach" the door even as he successfully arrives in front of it. So that coast where I grabbed the fuse-wire from a distance was one such place where it worked because the shoreline acts as an impassable obstacle to Linus on foot, and I don't think it had anything to do with clearing the message about the green water as I had first suspected. One place I didn't find before making the TAS was the barrier to the car race at Cape Carnival. Bumping into that allows Linus to instantly enter the tunnel to Linograd, which might save a little time after completing the race, I didn't test yet. The very farthest left pixel Linus can stand on in the post office also counts as a wall. That would be a very quick way out the door after using the mail slot. Or maybe it could be used to start the vending machine on the way to the door? Someone will have to check that and plan the routes through the post office all over again. Then there are some places where you can pull off the glitch, but it's useless, like in the camera shop and the top of the space station where you start out on top of the exit anyway. I also found a way to get Linus frozen on the surfboard forever. :) As it turns out, this was the one actual glitch that Cosmic Spacehead fixed. If you recall, using the glitch to push Formica City's first button remotely failed to allow Linus to sneak under the door every time I tried, but Cosmic Spacehead doesn't allow that to happen at all, even though several other glitches involving the Linus clone still work. So anyway, remember places like that and how the glitch works if you're planning to make a new TAS. Also, remember to pick up the bridge from the right side immediately after crossing it in the money box's room, rather than going to all the trouble of finding a trick to bounce back up there later like I did, just because I was in the habit of leaving platform items lying around until I was done with a room. Then there are some murkier possibilities for improving the time, such as the random timing of enemies like the spark-dropping birds, the car zappers, and the springs, the more annoying two-dimensional acceleration in the car race, and the car vs. asteroid section that combines both those problems. It's mainly a matter of trial and error unless you can come up with a more technical approach somehow. In addition, I noticed a few more strange things when I replayed the game with my sister last summer. I let her try the bumper car race once, and purely by accident she turned around and steered the car straight through a big chunk of the wall right behind the finish line. I recall I also did something like that once, skating across the inside corner of the rocky wall on the left. I just wish I knew what the trick was; I guess we'll have to keep messing around with those walls to see if they have seams to their boundaries or something, and have movie recording on while testing it to catch it if it ever happens again. Some other things I saw were useless but interesting. In the dark tunnel, I can occasionally get the glow light out of synch by standing a certain way so that the lighted area is a square behind Linus and the circle masking. And there's something up with the password system: It seems that if I start the game from a password, certain Cosmic Candies are missing throughout the game compared to if I start it with New Game, even if that password came from the very beginning. I considered making a list of which candies they are and finding how many, but I think it's only worth mentioning that it's probably just a little reward for playing the whole game in one sitting without running out of lives. :) I'm not ready to commit to another TAS again at least to the end of this year, so here's a good challenge for someone who wants to improve a TAS but doesn't want too hard of a task. Just learn the quirks of moving around the game, find and fix those flaws I mentioned, and make up your own style of waving the arrow pointer around when you're forced to wait. Good luck to all! ...Whoops, I remembered one more thing to report, in case anyone still cares about the 16-bit versions. I forgot who it was, but someone on IRC pointed out that when traveling from Old Lino Town to The Border/Passport Control on Sega Genesis, it's possible to jump the first gap without climbing onto the floating rocks overhead. See, where the original NES version had invisible footholds on the right sides of certain structures, the Genesis version added a few on their left sides. Always gotta try jumping everywhere, even if it looks pointless, yup.
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Maybe "trill" is the more correct term? And yeah, I wasn't aware the technique was used in NES games until I saw the speedruns of McKids and Treasure Master, so that's when I figured it was only popular among Western developers. Oh, but a few songs in Final Fantasy 3 used the trills too! Now, I remember playing games for IBM PCs whose speaker could only play one tone at a time, so trilling would have been the only option for them to get any real sense of harmony at all!
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It's YOU I'm so lazy, I never got around to helping make the improved version or even watching the finished product. :/
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Ah, I picked a good time to browse the forum again! No, I didn't get around to playing the game any more since I last posted, but I'm happy that the topic's attracting some more experienced players now. Already by the second game, the battle chip selection is becoming too much for me. I watched your boss rush video just now, and it's a real eye-opener to just how many abusive chip combinations you could come up with to shorten the in-battle time, at least. Oh, but you have to switch to the Japanese ROM to make the Prism do that rapid damage thing, don't you? I may have to look over your plans more later, but I like your idea that if you have to use any Program Advances, they should probably be real-time use ones, so you're not forced to watch the chips combine and a long Navi animation. And sure, if you can fit enough rapid chips in with a little supplement from uncharged shots, that will probably obviate the need to charge up any sort of special shot, so the random style may not be a big deal in the end. Getting Guts might be nice for speed though...
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Tanooki Teabag wrote:
I'm not sure if "no sliding" is a particularly interesting goal for a TAS because it just makes the movie longer without being particularly entertaining to watch.
Yeah, I'm only suggesting it for real-time runs because without that high-speed move for quick escapes, you're forced to plan for and anticipate enemy reactions with much more precision than normal.
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Okay. You actually can't beat the final boss without either Pharaoh Shot or Ring Boomerang, so I just use Ring Boomerang since it only takes off a single notch of energy per shot, and that means I can never miss a shot with it or I can't finish the battle with it.
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I tried a "No sliding unless needed, uncharged Mega Buster only" challenge for this game once, and let me tell you, it is not pretty once you get to some of the fortress bosses. How much of the game have you tested? And why is your file extension not .fm2?
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Yeah, cool idea for a TAS-generating script, but I would have been more interested to see how long you could keep 3 caterpillars in the air at the same time.
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Did you consider playing the mini-game on level 3? That way you would be earning points 3 times as fast.
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Oh wait, that was last series. Okay, this series there was an episode where Rawratah let her idiot friends design their own cars dresses, and they turned out TOTALLY WICKED! Also, I can't believe more people don't like the episode where one pony has only two tickets to share with six friends.
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My Little Pony is great at doing plots The Simpsons already did! Like, there was one called The Princess Promenade where Wysteria couldn't help the other ponies because she was too busy being in jail a princess, and so nothing went right and they could only afford a statue of Jimmy Carter!
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It can't be coincidence. Minty was always considered the best character in those cartoons. Why she hasn't appeared in the new show yet is beyond me.
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You could play as Rainbow Dash during the part of the Ponyville chapter where you collect rainbowberries for Sweetberry, but unfortunately she's not the popular Rainbow Dash, so it would do you no good.
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Zavalix wrote:
But I think the backgrounds and the variety of the mini games makes it bareable...
Oh yeah, I find the music pretty soothing too...
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ais523 wrote:
Imagine what a TAS of an RPG typically looks like: all battles run from except a few plot battles that are beaten with cheap tactics or luck manipulation, leaving basically the entire run as cutscenes, fetchquests, and minigames. And isn't that just what this game is? As a benefit, the plot makes rather more sense than the average RPG's. Voting meh, as per my policy on voting on RPG runs that skip or power through all the interesting bits (in this case, there are no interesting bits to skip, but I don't see why that should make a difference).
But you're aware that the mini-games are optional, right? For some reason the game allows you to press Start at any point during a mini-game to receive the option to quit it early, yet it gives you credit for completing the mini-game after doing that anyway. So by playing the mini-games normally, Ferret Warlord is really giving us the "Sacrifices time for entertainment" version of the TAS. Also, I haven't checked for myself and it's not addressed in the submission text, but I believe there could be a little luck manipulation involved in those mini-games--you know, making it so that your targets are closer and any obstacles are farther away. I think FerretWarlord might have said once on IRC that he couldn't manipulate the randomly walking ponies to stay out of Rarity's way, though.
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mklip2001 wrote:
It's basically a big fetch quest and some unimpressive minigames, at slow paces. I'm quite sad that Hasbro thought this would be something good to market to kids, since these kinds of games dumb you down by providing no real semblance of a challenge.
A few of the mini-games can be challenging if you play them multiple times to "level them up"; that one where you race the star comes to mind. You can even save the mini-game levels you've earned and replay any of them whenever you want with a password, but I think a "plays only mini-games" run would be an even sillier idea, considering several games can be played endlessly or have no clear end.
Mr. Kelly R. Flewin wrote:
Honestly though.. the only part that was almost even REMOTELY entertaining was the one part in Chapter 3 where for a few seconds it looked like she was sent to fetch a bomb! I was actually giddy thinking the game had such a hidden dark potential... then I realized it was a freaking PLUM! Killed my spirits right there.
Lol, who ever heard of a rainbowberry?
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What about 4Chan and Reddit?
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Hey, I felt like poking around in Battle Network 2 again, and so I figured that posting what I've found so far is a better idea than leaving a bunch of files of research on my computer and wondering what I was doing a year later. Since you're forced to get a Style Change at one point in the game, it would be a good idea to see how to get the best one for a TAS, especially as it costs time to switch back to NormalStyle. My experiments with RAM Search haven't helped me at all to find any of the running tallies that might go into deciding the next Style, and I couldn't get GameShark codes to work, but just by watching the beginning of WRAM during the part of the game where MegaMan gets his first Style Change, I noticed that 02000005 changes from 21 to 11 when that happens. So by setting 02000005 to 21 again, you can get MegaMan's very first Style Change... again! Then, since the save state hacking guide mentioned some more important stuff was saved in the D00's, I watched that area and noticed that a single byte at 02000DC1 controls the Style that MegaMan's currently wearing. Now, it doesn't control what Styles you actually own, so if you switch to any other Style, you'll lose the Style you cheated in with this method. But otherwise, the Style works just like normal in battle as long as you chose a valid value for it. NormalStyle is 00, HubStyle is 28, and all the rest are made by combinations of course. To break it down, 01 is Electric, 02 is Heat, 03 is Aqua, 04 is Wood, 08 is Guts, 10 is Custom, 18 is Team, 20 is Shield, 40 is V2, and 80 is V3. Or to put it in a table:
      |Electric|  Heat  |  Aqua  |  Wood
------+--------+--------+--------+--------
 Guts |   09   |   0A   |   0B   |   0C
------+--------+--------+--------+--------
Custom|   11   |   12   |   13   |   14
------+--------+--------+--------+--------
 Team |   19   |   1A   |   1B   |   1C
------+--------+--------+--------+--------
Shield|   21   |   22   |   23   |   24
I wouldn't worry about V2, because what TAS would have time to fight another hundred battles to get that? I think the bump in damage rating would be offset by the message about the upgrade anyway. Hopefully this bit of information will help someone find where Style Changes are calculated so that we can set the random parts of it up right early on. At the very least, it will allow you to play around with every style more quickly. A TAS will probably be forced to get Custom because of all the easy multiple chip selections done along the way, unless you can raise Attack soon enough that rapid-firing is often the best option and you get Guts, which could be helpful either for the doubled Attack or being able to shrug off any damage while you attack. Shield seems even less likely unless you've got strategies that require loads of defense to pull off, and I think Team is out of the question. The random element could be important for the range the buster attack covers, what enemies will be weak to it, and what you'll be weak to if you have to withstand a lot of damage. I might have mentioned before that you fight ThunderMan once and MagnetMan twice, so if you can AreaSteal your way into the next column, Wood's Twister would be fairly devastating. With Heat's flamethrower you could get double damage on ShadowMan's grass, plus any Wood bosses if I can remember any... SnakeMan, if you can stun him long enough, maybe? Charging time could be an issue with any of those special busters, where you might want to put any PowerUps you find into Charge unless you want to focus on Guts's double-damage shot. The time you have to hold the B button to get a charged shot depends on which element you have as well as how much you increased the Charge stat, so I made another table to show all the times in number of frames:
        | Normal |Electric|  Wood  |  Heat  |  Aqua
--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------
CHARGE 1| Never  |  181   |  171   |  141   |  121
--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------
CHARGE 2|  171   |  151   |  141   |  121   |  101
--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------
CHARGE 3|  141   |  131   |  111   |  101   |   81
--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------
CHARGE 4|  111   |  111   |   81   |   81   |   61
--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------
CHARGE 5|   71   |   91   |   61   |   61   |   41
HubStyle gets the same charge values as NormalStyle, but will be stuck with Guts's rapid values. It's funny to note that Wood starts out slower than Heat but catches up by level 4, and Electric starts out quicker than Normal but is truly slower by level 5. Now, these values don't include the time you actually spend firing, or the "cooldown", so you have to remember that, especially with the way Heat and Wood pin you down for a few seconds with their attacks. If you're into rapid firing, I made a table for how many frames must elapse between shots if you're standing still, which depends on your Rapid level and the number of empty squares you're firing across, where 0 is hitting an enemy "point blank" and 5 is firing from the back with nothing in your row.
       |5 panels|4 panels|3 panels|2 panels|1 panel |0 panels
-------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------
RAPID 1|   28   |   24   |   20   |   16   |   12   |    8
-------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------
RAPID 2|   24   |   21   |   18   |   14   |   11   |    7
-------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------
RAPID 3|   21   |   19   |   16   |   13   |   10   |    7
-------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------
RAPID 4|   19   |   17   |   14   |   11   |    9   |    6
-------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------+--------
RAPID 5|   16   |   14   |   12   |   10   |    8   |    6
But you have to remember the "scoot back and forth" trick to cancel the cooldown and fire once every 14 frames as long as you have room in your row, which works even with Guts style. If you had full Attack with Guts, that would still be a quicker way to deal 30 damage than Aqua's full charge because of the cooldown. Similarly, I don't know how useful Electric's ZapRing attack could be in a TAS when the point is to stun something but you have to wait so long to charge it up.
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Ooh, so you have a plan for a weapon tank?
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Arcing weapons are really handy when the game keeps dropping things on your head.
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The annoying thing is that you'll have to analyze each instance of loading for the difference in time and subtract it all out of the final time so that you can compare the runs fairly.
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