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rollingface wrote:
Hi, I don't know if this is the proper place to ask, but I think it would be interesting to see a speed run of Yume Koujou Doki Doki Panic. I think it would be intersting to see the game as it was.
Moved your post into the existing thread about that game (you could have found it yourself if you used "search" at "doki doki panic").
Possibly, the previous replies already answer your question. Check them.
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Yes, it would be possible. However, what to do when the rule fails? For example, you jump across a pit, but bump into a flying turtle headfirst and die?
Or the pit is longer, and the next obstacle requires one to slow down and jump tall, not long?
Or there's an enemy immediately before a pit that you need to avoid, but when doing so by jumping over thereof, you fall into the pit? (Actually, your #5)
The rules necessary for the game's completion become long, and it still won't be generic; any non-trivial change to the levels and you may need to rewrite parts of the bot.
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AKA wrote:
If only I could find a video of it, but I think this moment best any millionaire moment, I have the orginal text for it.
Maybe this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frQacbJ3RIo
No, that's the question after £500,000… And a different participant too, according to the transcript you quoted. The Ingram in the video, got a different £1,000,000 question than in the transcript (portion you didn't quote).
No video = Didn't happen ;)
This is my favourite btw. http://youtube.com/watch?v=hr3tsMCrQgo
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Well, I apologize, but the fact is that when I watch a submission, I do so by firing up the engine that produces an AVI. It is in fact less effort for me to do that way than to start the emulator separately only to watch the movie (and potentially, later start the AVI-making engine anyway).
Asking me to not make the AVI so soon is the same as asking me to not watch the submission, or to ask me to have the AVI just sit idle on the disk, which doesn't sound nice either.
I don't watch many submissions lately ― when I do, I usually either make a comment on it, or reject it, or accept & start encoding it.
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upthorn wrote:
It would be appreciated if you would try to remember that not everyone on the internet is a goon, and keep the links to members only areas of the Something Awful forums to a minimum. This is especially the case as Something Awful accounts require paying to register, so when you post links to members-only sections, you're basically spamming for a commercial site.
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FODA wrote:
It is simply THE most classic challenge in the supermario64 community.
Doesn't sound like a good reason enough to make a TAS, to me.
It seems to be a sorts of initiation rite for a certain group of speedrunners. Why a TAS?
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These conditions used in the submission sound somewhat arbitrary to me.
What next, a play that completes all stars that can be done without bringing a piranha plant, bobomb or goomba into camera's view?
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It looks bad to me. There are a lot of stops and waits. But I do not know if they can be avoided.
Also, what little interesting text there is, is skipped so quickly that it cannot be read without pause+frame advance. (And when I try, it is rather difficult to undestand.)
I would like there to be a lot of explanation on things that only the players of this game know, and on things only the TAS maker knows.
Without explanations, this movie has no value for the majority of the audience.
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jaysmad wrote:
Um... In Misty Star World..Where the heck did that fish come from???
I second this reaction.
If I had a "WTF" stamper, I would apply it to this movie.
I had a lot of fun watching Misty Star World and Pipe World 4 particularly, .
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I don't want to maintain two separate places for the same discussion.
If there are comment pages for movies, separate from the forums, it is a fact that some people will post there FAQ questions, demanding discussion that mirrors the forums, and that there will be spam, etc. Regulars would also need to read them.
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Yrr wrote:
Bisqwit wrote:
By such and that, you mean what?
A brute force bot.
Well, in case you're missing the point, what I previously described was how I did with the Rockman 1 TAS. I implemented such a bot.
The source code is here: http://bisqwit.iki.fi/src/fceu-bisqbot-patch-v5.zip
However, customizing such bot is done in the C++ programming language.
I know there are plenty of TAS makers who would like to have an easy tool to produce bots like that, but as far as my cases have been concerned, it all requires programming. And I program in C++, directly into the FCEU source code. I cannot produce a tool to do that job; the different cases have been complex enough to be troublesome to think of how to do it in C++; I don't think I am capable of making a tool that enables such level of control without having to write in C++, or some other programming language.
I recall, someone implemented a similar mechanismus in snes9x, using something called "LUA", but I think it also involved having to program the rules of the bot's play.
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Yrr wrote:
Couldn't there be such a tool created? Of course it required lots of programming to produce proper results but I generally think it shouldn't be so hard to create something like that.
By such and that, you mean what?
Yrr wrote:
How many restarts/positions does it check per second (on average)?
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Yrr wrote:
Very good idea. I thought of that myself. My problem is, however, that I only have knowledge about Visual Basic, similar things and AutoIt.
What I don't understand, though, how can a such a bot be really used? I mean the time the bot needs grows exponentially with the input length. With 100 positions checked per second and only 4 input combinations per frame needs several hours.
The bot generates random inputs, that the bot's author fine-tunes, according to the best understanding of the steps needed towards achieving the goal.
For example, in Rockman 1, when the goal is to achieve a weapon refill spawning, the following knowledge is gathered:
― Moving left and right is involved, with rightwards movement preferred. There is no pattern on the durations of holding either button.
― A jump or two may be involved. When doing a jump, the A button is held for a number of frames and then released; it does not make sense to bang it randomly 10 times in a second.
― Maybe a few extra shots need to be shot. There is no knowing when is the best time to fire them, so it can be completely random. However, there should be only two extra shots at maximum.
― The enemy is located on the right, so one of the shots should be fired towards the right.
We know the proper input is more likely to look like this:
― 11*A_B, 20*A, 7*B, 6*A, 6*B_R
than like this:
― 1*A_B, 1*B_R, 1*A, 1*A_B, 1*A, 1*A_B_R, 1*B, 1*R, 1*A, 1*A_R, 1*B_R, 1*A_B_R, 1*B_R, 2*A_B_R, 1*B, 1*00, 1*B_R, 1*00, 1*R, 1*A_B, 1*R, 1*A_B_R, 1*A_R, 3*B, 2*A_B, 1*A_B_R, 1*A_R, 1*B_R, 2*B, 1*A, 1*A_B_R, 1*A, 1*00, 1*A_B_R, 1*B, 3*A, 1*A_B, 1*00, 1*A_R, 1*B, 1*R, 1*A_B_R, 1*B_R
Using this knowledge, the input generator is devised.
This reduces the number of options to search significantly, and increases the chances of finding the solution within reasonable time. However, if our understanding of the means to achieve the goal is flawed, so will the bot be, and it will not achieve the goal.
Also, the bot needs control conditions. Using again the Rockman 1 example, here are some conditions that should be set:
― There will be 50 frames of time. Anything more is too slow. When 50 frames is elapsed without achieving goal, restart.
― If Rockman falls into a pit, that is obviously a wrong solution. Falling into pit is detected by observing the X and Y coordinates of Rockman (RAM monitoring). ⇒ restart.
― If Rockman receives damage, the attempt is a failure. ⇒ restart.
― If an enemy is killed but it does not yield the right powerup, the attempt is a failure. ⇒ restart.
― If the powerup is generated in an out-of-reach location, the attempt is a failure. ⇒ restart.
And so on.
Obviously, all of this requires programming.
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Corundum wrote:
I'm a quick reader, but not THAT quick. :) Even playing the video in slow motion, they're hard to read.
Hooray for video players that have a "frame advance" function.
Yes, they appear only for a fraction of a second, because the dialog text that they reply to, also appears for only a fraction of second. If you cannot see the dialog, there's no point in seeing the subtitle either.
With frame advance, the dialog is readable just fine (though still inconvenient).
quietkane wrote:
Also, is this obsoleting on the premise that if someone made an any% as precise or slightly more precise as this that it would be published alongside this one, or is this a game that only gets one movie?
According to the author, the difference in the previous movie and this movie is significant to the degree that there is no benefit in keeping the previous movie around.
It is a similar case to when my Solomon's Key 100% movie obsoleted my Solomon's Key any% movie. The difference was so steep, that there was no value left in the predecessor, despite the new movie being longer.
Even after that, it is disputable whether an any% movie would be a good idea. In the case of Illusion of Gaia, even more so; the differences are minimal.
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I found an improvement.
A trivial one at that, too.
https://files.tasvideos.org/bisqwit/illugaia-comp1.avi
Left: halamantariel's movie, Right: bisqwit's demonstration
Differences:
- Halamantariel kills the skull 7 frames faster than Bisqwit
- Bisqwit gets through the gate ~21 frames earlier than Halamantariel
(After that I forgot to sprint, but that's beside the point)
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Lyrics of the Helsinki choir's song, with English translation on the right:
Helsingin valituskuoro Helsinki Complaints Choir
Töitä tekemällä ei rikastu, eikä rakkaus kestä ikuisesti You can't get rich by working, and love doesn't last forever Eikä uimahallin saunassa kysytä lupaa And in the swimming hall's sauna, they never ask löylyn heittämiseen if it's ok before throwing water on the stove
Vanhoista metsistä tehdään vessapaperia Old forests are cut down and turned into toilet paper silti vessoista on aina paperi lopussa yet still toilets are always out of paper.
Miksi halpa tavara ajaa kansan hulluksi? Why do cheap goods drive people mad? Helsingin keskelle kohosi taas ostoshelvetti. Another shopping hell was erected in the middle of Helsinki.
Naapuri kurkkii ovisilmästä My neighbour spies on me through the peephole kun luokseni tulee vieraita whenever I come home with guests ja tulee etuajassa saunavuoroonsa and he always arrives too early for his sauna turn
Aina hävitään Ruotsille lätkässä ja Euroviisuissa We always lose to Sweden in hockey and Eurovision Joulumyynti alkaa joka vuosi aikaisemmin Christmas season starts earlier every year
Miksi toiset eivät ole samaa mieltä minun kanssa? Why people do not agree with me? Työpaikat katoavat Kiinaan Jobs go to China
Kolmosessa haisee kusi! Tramline three smells of pee!
On se niin väärin! * 4 It's so wrong! * 4
Miksi "metripizza" on vain puoli metriä pitkä? Why is the "metre pizza" only half metres long? Imurin piuha on liian lyhyt, The cord of the vacuum cleaner is too short, kuten kesätkin just like the summers are
Aamulla töihin, illalla kotiin, Going to work at every morning, then home at night, mielenterveys siinä menee eventually you lose your mind Kännykästä loppuu aina akku And the battery of the mobile phone always runs out Soittoäänet kaikki yhtä ärsyttäviä Ring tones are all irritating -- (with a ringtone melody) Soittoäänet kaikki yhtä ärsyttäviä Ring tones are all irritating Soittoäänet kaikki yhtä ärsyttäviä Ring tones are all irritating Soittoäänet kaikki yhtä Ring tones are all
[Sori, tota oon vähän pahassa paikassa että [Sorry, I'm in a bad spot, so -- (the performance conductor) jos soitat myöhemmin uudestaan.] call me later.]
Kun ostaa huonekaluja, saa paketillisen lautoja When you buy furniture, you only get a pile of planks
On nenäliinat liian kovia, ja hukassa kun aivastuttaa Tissues are too rough, and missing when you need to sneeze
Sukkahousut valuvat kävellessä My tights slip when I'm walking Edessäni on aina pitkä mies There's always a tall man in front of me
Töissä taputetaan olalle ja puukotetaan selkään At work they pat me on shoulder, and stab in the back
Uneni ovat tylsiä, viitenumerot liian pitkiä My dreams are boring, the reference numbers are too long
Naiset saavat edelleenkin miehiä huonompaa palkkaa Women still receive smaller salary than men do Paskanpuhujat menestyy liian hyvin elämässä Bullshitters get on too well in life
Hesari on liian paksu The daily newspaper is too thick Miksi aina juuri minä? Why always me?
On se niin väärin! * 4 It's so wrong! * 4
Hammaslääkäriin on puolen vuoden jono The dentist's queue is half a year long Sen jälkeen hampaan voikin when you get there the tooth is poistaa kokonaan already dead and must be pulled out
Kaunis paita värjäytyy pesussa, mutta ruma ei Nice shirts get discoloured in the wash, but ugly ones don't Ei aikaa reilun kaupan tuotteille, Never time for Fair Trade goods, kiire sinne missä ne kasvaa yet always rush to where they grow
Lööppejä ei pääse karkuun You cannot escape the tabloid headlines Aina on väärä sää The weather is always wrong
En koskaan saa tarpeeksi I never get enough [And the Finnish language is bloody difficult to learn] [And the Finnish language is bloody difficult to learn] -- (a guy on the megaphone)
Aina hävitään Ruotsille lätkässä ja Euroviisuissa We always lose to Sweden in hockey and Eurovision Joulumyynti alkaa joka vuosi aikaisemmin Christmas season starts earlier every year
Miksi toiset eivät ole samaa mieltä minun kanssa? Why people do not agree with me? Työpaikat katoavat Kiinaan Jobs go to China
Kolmosessa haisee kusi! Tramline three smells of pee!
Kämppäni on pieni mutta syö kaikki varani My flat is tiny, but eats all my money Siispä ei jää rahaa parantaa maailmaa So no money remains to better the world
Ihmiset ottaa kantaa vain tekstiviestipalstoilla People only take a stand on SMS forums Ja idiootit ei osaa seistä oikein rullaportaissa And idiots don't know where to stand on the escalator
Mieheni kuorsaa kovaa, ja kävelee liian hitaasti My husband snores loudly, and walks too slowly ja pesee ainoastaan pelipaidat and washes only the sport shirts Vaimoni aina valittaa! My wife always complains!
On se niin väärin! * 4 It's so wrong! * 4
Illat kuluu kytätessä tv-lupatarkastajaa Evenings wasted hiding from the TV license inspector kun ei viitsi maksaa urheilusta ja tositv:stä because I don't wish to pay for sports and reality tv
Työvoimapalvelusta etsitään vain java-osaajaa The employment agency only needs Java experts Vanhuksille syötetään pameja ettei ne valita Old people are fed with Diapam so they won't complain
Ystäväni tykkää kännykästään enemmän kuin minusta My friend likes the mobile phone more than me Esi-isät olisivat voineet valita aurinkoisemman maan Our anchestors could have chosen a sunnier land
Uneni ovat tylsiä, viitenumerot liian pitkiä My dreams are boring, the reference numbers are too long
Naiset saavat edelleenkin miehiä huonompaa palkkaa Women still receive smaller salary than men do Paskanpuhujat menestyy liian hyvin elämässä Bullshitters get on too well in life
Hesari on liian paksu The daily newspaper is too thick Miksi aina juuri minä? Why always me?
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I wonder how much you people are into the scene of complaining about everything, but if you like to listen what the Finnish people like to complain about, please watch this choir performance.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ATXV3DzKv68
It is sung in Finnish, but it is translated in English (as subtitles), and there are also occassional sentences in English (and Swedish) as well.
I found it very funny.
Apparently the Helsinki Complaints Choirs is not the only complaints choir: there are complaint choirs in many countries. More information can be found here: http://www.complaintschoir.org/
Another Finnish complaint choir, where the singers are elementary schoolers, who also wrote the lyrics: http://youtube.com/watch?v=TqNG6VTKRh0
I also liked the Hamburg and St. Petersburg Complaints Choirs.
Ps: this topic is not a hint about anything.
This would have made an excellent Christmas submission.
