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nfq wrote:
What doesn't make sense to me is that he says that God loves us and that he doesn't want anyone to go to hell, so why create hell in the first place? Or since God is all-powerful, why not just destroy it now?
Hell was created as a punishment for fallen angels, before the creation of humans. (It's somewhere in the book of Isaiah, too tired to look up where.)
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Cpadolf wrote:
Bisqwit, do you watch any TV series regularly despite not owning a TV (through downloading)?
If so, which are the most notable ones you are following?
I have followed (or sometimes, just downloaded for watching) these (inclusively):
-- Farscape, Enterprise, Battlestar Galactica, Stargate SG-1, Stargate Atlantis
-- Doctor Who, Torchwood, The Outer Limits, The 4400
-- Iron Chef, Mythbusters
-- And a number of Japanese anime series.
The currently active list is considerably shorter -- as I think quickly it only includes Naruto Shippūden.
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Twelvepack wrote:
Do you need a permit to have a tv? Or is that something else?
In Finland, if you possess a device capable of receiving television transmissions, you must pay a fee (about 200 euros per year), which covers the upkeeping of a few non-advertisement-paid national channels (even if you never watch those particular channels). (Similar fee exists in a few other countries, too. More about the concept at Wikipedia.)
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Blublu wrote:
and you automatically punch holes in their arguments without even thinking about it anymore
Since you didn't present an actual argument, I can't punch holes in it.
Blublu wrote:
But here are things that would convince me, and every other thinking atheist in the world. Here's a nice video of youtube about what those things are: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rqUsC2KsiI
This video was amusing to me.
Yeah, I suppose those would be the same questions I would ask if I was an atheist.
As a follower of God, instead, I can see why those questions are hardly being fulfilled. I have no doubt that God performs miracles, but the thing about miracles, including prayer answers, is that such answers are only granted when the desire for the request in the first place is initiated by God.[1] As for why does God not want to give a definite proof to those who choose not to believe, like he did with Eliyah and the prophets of Ba'al[2], I do not know. Maybe it has something to do with the freedom of choice issue I talked about in my post on the previous page, but this is merely guessing. God does give proofs from time to time (aside from that proof which he gives upon the conversion), but we must be awake and in the right place at the right time to notice them. (Matt. 7:6)
Any in any case, God does not desire just our believing in him. He desires that we accept him as our lord, so that we follow his will in a close communion with him and reject the sinful ways. Maybe he thinks that if his existence was a scientifically proven fact, it would be even more difficult to get people to actually convert to following him. But this is merely guessing.
Blublu wrote:
I would like to see a similar video about what would convince a religious person that they are wrong. Such a video will probably never get made, though.
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Boco wrote:
EDIT: Since Bisqwit hasn't seen the game in action yet, I imagine a lot of people aside from him haven't either. Here's some nice video of what I personally think is the best in the classic series:
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Boco wrote:
Hey Bisqwit. I see on the Megaman 9 topic that you don't much care for the soundtrack because of its similarity to 5's (though that's probably why I like it so much myself, personally). Have you had the chance to actually play the game or see videos of it being played yet? What's your opinion on that, and do you think other companies should follow in Capcom's footsteps making "new classic" games?
No, I have not yet even seen a video of its gameplay.
I don't own the console, and likely, the game won't even be introduced in Europe until $much_later... so. (And in any case, I wouldn't buy the console (and a tv, and the tv permit) just for it.)
I would definitely like to see more companies follow the same suit, though perhaps not as literally.
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Warp wrote:
why is it *always* christianity? have you ever seen such an atheist video which would attack buddhism, hare krishna or islam?
Because Christianity lends itself open for criticism, much like science does. (Though the means of validation are quite different.)
Criticise Islam publicly, and you will receive death threats.
Criticise Hare Krishna, and nobody will care. It's a hippie movement that touches nobody.
And Buddhism does not have a whole lot to criticise, considering that it is purely a manmade philosophy and it makes no claims otherwise, and especially because Buddhists do not have a missionary call. They don't care if you believe in their teachings or not.
Nevertheless, it made for a very interesting study. It is a good idea to assume good faith. In this case, good faith is that the movie represents the author's views of the Christian beliefs and that the author is open for corrections (or in this case, Baxter). Bad faith is that the movie aims to badmouth and ridicule the Christian beliefs by falsely representing its core ideas.
Let's make a truth/consequence table:
* Assuming = good faith, reality = good faith:
The author (and everyone else who reads it) gets useful answers and the world becomes a better place with more mutual understanding.
* Assuming = good faith, reality = bad faith:
A bad thing has been turned into a good thing. Maybe some effort was wasted, but has the writing of the answers really been a futile thing? Remember, the audience does not only consist of the malicious party.
* Assuming = bad faith, reality = good faith:
The author gets reinforcement for their view that Christians are not willing to justify their views, and the chasm widens further.
* Assuming = bad faith, reality = bad faith:
Nobody benefits anything, and everyone's views of how communication in the Internet is fruitless, are further solidified. And those who did assume good faith, get reinforcement for their view that Christians are not willing to justify their views, and the chasm widens further.
So you see, assuming good faith beats assuming bad faith regardless of the original intentions.
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Baxter wrote:
This post made remembered me a lot of this youtube movie http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=urlTBBKTO68
It depicts God as a cloud, and is being outreasoned... so it might be offensive to you. This is not my intention at all, so if you are, then feel free to ignore or delete this post.
I do think it makes some valid points, and I was wondering what you think about the points that are being made (In particular the question "What would happen if all good persons would go to heaven?").
I was also wondering what assumptions about God were made in this movie that you disagree with (besides obvious things like how he is being depicted).
I will comment on the movie.
<man> I thought you were supposed to be all-merciful and all-forgiving?
<cloud> Only to people who believe that I exist!
That's not really the point.
Although God's extent of mercy and forgiveness is immeasurable, there is no meaning in mercy if one does not change their ways.
And when you're dead, how exactly are you going to change your ways?
It is not the "believing in God" in itself that saves us. Of course you will believe that God exists when he's sitting in the front of you.
God forgives our sins when we decide, from the bottom of our heart, to repent our sins, acknowledging that we would have no part in Heaven if it were not the sacrifice of The Messiah, and decide to follow God's will[1] from thereafter. Sin is, by the definition[2], disobeying God's will.
When you are standing in the front of God and you "decide to follow God's will" from thereafter... How exactly are you going to do that? Is your decision a honest one? Or are you just coerced into doing so because you don't see any other choice? Because there's simply no "tomorrow" to which you could postpone the decision? At that moment, you do not have the freedom of choice.
Sin cannot enter the Heaven – this is God's law, and that law does not have exceptions. Therefore, when you're dead and in the front of God, if you had not yet made the decision to follow God from all your heart, purifying you from the sin, you are not permitted in the Heaven.
<cloud> What do you think Heaven would be like if I let in every good person?
Again, this is incorrect. Here I will paraphrase someone else. What exactly is a "good person"? Are you a good person? Check out: http://www.goodpersontest.com/
God requires nothing short of being a "good person" every single moment in our life. That means never lying to anyone intentionally, never insulting someone[3], always being ready to help someone in need of help without expecting anything in return, never taking credit for something someone else did, and so on. A single failure of doing that is a sin. And as I concluded the earlier paragraph, sin cannot enter the Heaven. The penalty of sin is death.[4]
<cloud> You might as well have been a baby raper!
This is actually true. (Though it took some time for me to realize it.)
As recent psychological experiments (and some real life events) have demonstrated, even humans considering themselves "good" can perform the worst atrocities when sufficiently manipulated, for example by placing them in a group of people who all seem to approve those atrocities, or when feeling helplessness to do otherwise, or when fearing an authority, or under times of apathy, etc.
Truly, we are not all that different as humans.
In your mind you might despise or be puzzled about the people who cheered as Jesus was being judged to be crucified and who wanted a real criminal to be released instead, but if we were there, most of us would have done the same thing. Not because it was prophetized, but because humans are like that.
<man> Why do you allow bad things to happen... even to Christians who love you?
<cloud> I don't have time for this nonsense! <...>
Here I am inclined to agree with the cloud's answer, though for different reasons. This is a popular question that has a number of answers that depend on each possible situation.
I will choose three sections from the Bible that cover most cases. (I rephrased them a bit in modern English to make them easier to read.)
John 9:1-11 wrote:
As Jesus passed by, he saw a man who was blind from his birth.
His disciples asked him, saying, "Rabbi, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?"
Jesus answered, "Neither had this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him."
<...>
When Jesus had spoken, he spat on the ground. He made clay of the spittle, and anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay,
Then he said unto him: "Go, wash in the pool of Siloam" (which translated means "sent"). The blind man did as Jesus told, and went, and washed, and came back, seeing.
<...>
People who had previously seen him as a blind man, gossiped among themselves: "Isn't this the blind man that sat and begged?"
So they asked him: "How come you're not blind anymore?"
He answered and said, "A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed my eyes, and said unto me, Go to the pool of Siloam, and wash: and I went and washed, and I received sight."
Proverbs 3:5-12 wrote:
Trust in the LORD with all your heart. Do not rely on your own understanding. In all of your ways, know Him, and he will straighten your paths.
Do not be wise in your own eyes. Fear the LORD, and stay away from evil. It shall be healthy for your body, and refreshing for your bones.
Honor the LORD by giving from your own, and from the best of your harvest. And when you do that, your barns will be filled with plenty, and your presses shall be bursting with new wine.
My son, hold the chastening of the LORD in esteem, and be not vexed with his corrections. Because the LORDcorrects those whom he loves, like a father corrects the son whom he is pleased of.
Job wrote:
<... This book is a bit too long to quote here.
I'll just provide this link instead. Be sure to read chapters 2-3 and onwards from 32.
This book is a story written in poetic form about a honest God-fearing man who had calamities strike across him, and the resulting aftermath, in the form of dialog between the man, and his friends, and ultimately, God himself.>
<man> Let me return to earth for a day so I can tell my loved ones <...>
I won't bother quoting the cloud's response here.
Jesus once told a parable[5] about a man who died and begged just the same way as the man in that cartoon. The parable ends with these words:
> And he said, No, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
> And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, even if one rose from the dead.
There have been people who have risen from the dead[8], and there have been people who claim to have visited the Hell[6], and people who claim to have visited the Heaven[7]. Still, not all people believe them.
1) John 8:10-11
2) Joshua 7:11
3) Proverbs 14:21
4) Romans 6:23
5) Luke 16:19-31
6) Google video
7) Low quality video or High quality video
8) Google video
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I think it's time to close this poll. It's clear that mmbossman's suggestion came out as the favourite.
The rest of the debate concerns how things should be rated, and that is parallel discussed also at http://tasvideos.org/forum/t/3859.
For the time being, before a consensus appears at that thread, I think we'll implement the rating mechanism the same way it's currently in the movie system (possibly without the user priority system though); it can be changed later.
I'll implement it as soon as possible, which is hopefully before the next Sabbath :)
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Swedishmartin wrote:
Opium and THC, though, can be found in poppy and hemp without any extraction and purification. And there's no real reason it's in there either, I believe.
Note that I'm not challenging you to explain everything there is to plants, feel free not to answer this post. :)
As far as I know, opium has been used as a pain reliever for surgeries in the past. According to Wikipedia, THC is a cannabis extract, right? I don't know enough of it, but the Wikipedia article does point at some positive medicinal uses.
Also, many plants are just simply beautiful to watch (and often, to smell). People grow poppies because their flowers are beautiful. Poppy seeds are used in bread, too.
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Swedishmartin wrote:
Yes, but what about the things that are all bad? Such as heroin?
I can't categorically explain every possible thing in the world, but for heroin, I would presume that it has some purpose against/for other plants and/or insects.
Edit: Also, isn't heroin a synthetic product? I.e. created by humans, by extracting & taking some components in some plants and chemically treating them in some weird way that completely defies their purpose of existing in the first place?
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Baxter> I'll watch that video later today when I have time (i.e. when I can playback sound without bothering people around me).
Swedishmartin wrote:
A question I've been meaning to ask my religious friend is: Does God invite sin, and if so, why?
Eating pork, for example. Jewish believe that God will punish them for eating an unclean animal. If God didn't want this, wouldn't He have made it completely impossible for humanity to eat pork, rather than giving a choice?
After all, God created man because he wanted to, implying that He likes us.
Since heaven is good for us, and since He likes us, He must also want us to go to heaven. Then why does He make it possible for us to go to hell?
The thing about "freedom of choice", I suppose, is that it's not really a freedom of choice if you remove all the choices :)
We cannot be creative and feel having accomplished something, if we don't have a choice any other way.
Even in the Heaven, where according to the Revelations, no sad things exist, people still have a choice, and they have differences. But the people who go there, have already learned to trust and follow God, and furthermore, they will be taught there and the godly joy that we have here in bits, will be full there, so sin is not likely to be reintroduced there.
In this world, there are many things that can be abused. For example, alcohol. God created the wine fruit, and intended it to be used as nourishment and as an ingredient for refreshing drinks. Wine is a very important part of the Jewish culture, appearing in many celebrations set in the Bible. It is not an abomination per se. However, humans should exercise moderation in its use: some wine makes people happy and more open, but too much wine makes people foul and likely to do stupid things they'll regret later, i.e. sin.
Similarly, various other things were created for various other purposes. The stinging nettle, for example, has medical uses.
God gave the human a lot of responsibility and the wisdom to use it, and the ability to do our own choices. So yes, we are responsible for ourselves to Him.
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jimsfriend wrote:
I just want to be sure I understand what you're saying here. Things can happen that are contrary to the will of God?
What do you think sin is then?
But even though sin happens in the small scale, sin does not pervail. God's will still wins in the grand scale :)
Things happening that God does not like, does not mean that the world is slipping out of his control and that he's watching helplessly. God has always been clear to guide the human by telling what he thinks is best, but the choice is with the human. But unlike today's parents, he keeps guiding people -- rewarding those who follow his will, and punishing those who don't. Eventually, all of those who chose to follow him, will be able to join his place and fully enjoy everything he can offer for all eternity, in a new, non-degrading body that is not subject to the same laws of physics as we are here, and all of those who chose to reject him, will be eternally separated from him together with the rest of those who chose to live in sin, including the spiritual beings that were cast out before the creation of humans, in the place that was prepared for punishing those spiritual beings (demons) for all eternity.
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Added mmbossman's suggestion.
Votes reset.
They were:
4 for restore, 14 for judges-only vote results, 8 for post buttons, 2 for text, 2 for nothing, 3 for ratings, 8 for secret ratings.
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Neophos wrote:
Everything can be bent to say "it's God's will", so nothing will ever work against him.
Would you expect an omnipotent being be vulnerable to something? :)
Not everything in the world is God's will, but as you quoted, in the long run, God always wins.
But when you can be on the winner's side and you realize that hey, that's actually real, that's something.
Thereby I strongly disagree with your calling God a "Mary Sue". It's not an ideological collection of people's dreams, but something quite real. The praises in the Psalms are not wishful thinking; they're the genuine feelings of people who have experienced God's actions. And that same theme goes throughout the Bible. Whether it's in words of praise, or simply telling what happened.
And for the record, not all Bible translations are that accurate. It is even a common opinion among Finnish believers that the 1992 Finnish translation of the Bible does not even come close to being accurate, and it has been rejected in favor of the older, 1933/1938 translation ― though the church organization, which led the translation project, still favors it. Some denominations even favor the yet older version from the 1700s.
In my opinion, the 1933/1938 translation also has its lacks, but at least it doesn't conflict with its own word.
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The thing about "pixelated" is that when you playback the movie at a larger size than original, your display card hardware "scales" the movie into larger size by a filtering process that specifically avoids pixelation.
If you disable hardware acceleration, you will see pixelated video.
If you view the video at 1:1 size, i.e. unscaled, you will also see it as it is originally. Each pixel of the video corresponds to one pixel in the game console's screen.
If you want the video to be pixelated when scaled to larger size without having to disable hardware acceleration, you will have to prescale it prior to encoding.
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As for books, God really gave only two stone tablets :)
The books comprising Bible, are written by humans who have been inspired by God in various ways.
In many cases, such as Peter's letters, the four gospels, or the book of Ezra, those are the disciple's own words with which they are telling about the great things God has done. In other words, they are witness accounts. Some people believe that even the writing of those witness accounts have been influenced by God, who has given them the power to remember long speeches and who has given the wordings that convey most of the meaning, but this is debatable.
Some books are also the disciple's own words, but they're not witness accounts. Such books include the Proverbs, and the Psalms. It is generally believed that the information in these books is inspired by God, not because they want to tell what they've seen, but because they have a message on their heart that they really want to tell to people. In the case of Proverbs, the message is about wisdom that lets one live a live that is full of love and devoid of sin. In the case of the Psalms, it is about worshipping God; poetic recollections of the writers' feelings towards God.
In a few other cases, such as the books of Isaiah or Micah, it is not the writer's own thoughts, but more like a dictation of what the prophet believes they received straight from God. Sometimes, the prophet describes the vision in their own words, and sometimes, the text just quotes the prophetic message verbatim, as clearly as the prophet can hear it.
The books of Moses, i.e. the first 5 books of the Torah, are special. Nobody knows for certain who wrote them, but they describe events of very long spans of time, surpassing any human's lifetime, so naturally they cannot be witness accounts of a single person. Most of the information, especially the primeval history (creation and all that), probably originates from oral tradition and/or words received by prophets. At some point, the words were written down, and those writings started to comprise the Torah. As they were written down, their Hebrew language form became locked, and has been copied precisely to this day.
Hmm, I kind of lost the 'red line' in this post. I guess my point is that too much focus is put on the precise letter, and the language, of the Bible. Though it is true that the closer you get to the original representation, the more meaning you will be able to extract from it, what really matters is the message that is represented.
The whole Bible revolves around God. Whether it is prophetic message that is there to guide us, or whether it is words of wisdom that are there to guide us, or whether it is witness accounts that are there to guide us, it all tells us about what kind of God our creator is, and what he is to us and what are we to him.
Every devout follower of the Messiah of Israel is a part of the Bible, even when their words are not written in that book. The God that was then, is now, and will always be, and what he means for us and what we hopefully feel in return, is always the same. The Bible is a guide towards living with God, and a source of spiritual strength for those who do. Not the words in a particular language, but the overall witness statement and wisdom it represents ― whether it is spoken out loud, read, gestured, or transmitted in bits.
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Randil wrote:
Dear Bisqwit,
What countries have you been to, besides Finland? (I can only think of USA at the moment) Which one did you like the most? Is there any country that you would like to visit one day that you haven't already?
Aside from Finland, Sweden(Skellefteå), Russia(St. Petersburg), Estonia(Tallinn), Austria(Wien, Mürzzugschlag, Semmering) and USA(New York).
I think I liked Austria best. But each visit has been such short and localized that it's really hard to tell.
I'm not a very travelly person, but I suppose there are two countries I'd like to visit, those being Japan and Israel.
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Mlandry wrote:
I voted "Other option? Suggest an option, and it will be added. (Votes will be reset, and you can vote again in this poll.)"
I still think an option of writing only to the author & judges would work.
You mean private-messaging of sorts?
Uhh. I don't think that's an option we'll consider seriously...
EDIT: Added "ratings with individual ratings kept secret until judging" as an option. Poll results were reset. Until the reset, "reset" had 3, "reset but judge-only" had 10, "post buttons" had 3, the next three had 1 each, and "ratings" had 3.
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Another idea: Re-enable voting, but make poll results viewable only to judges.
Plus:
-- Avoids the witch hunt issue; no particular vote is going to catch attention.
-- Judges get useful numbers.
Minus:
-- People WANT to see poll results in order to be motivated at voting.
-- Authors still need to see positive feedback to get gratification from their work.
----
[Edit by Bisqwit]: Added the issue Baxter pointed out.
