Posts for Blazephlozard


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Blazephlozard
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Location: Ohio
Thanks to WarHippy improving our level 2 skeleton clip, we're currently over 30 frames ahead entering Kyoto 1, so sub 8 is almost definitely happening. We might also be killing one dragon head (and duping its power orb) to save hits on Benkei/final boss, and hopefully are more able to manipulate RNG now that we know how it works better (thanks to Memory) If anyone wants to join our team server and help, message me on Discord (i'm in the tasvideos discord)
Post subject: Genpei Touma Den
Blazephlozard
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EZGames told me to make a thread here now that the Dream Team Contest is over (we won uwu) Our team managed a time very very close to 8 minutes (8:00.258), but it feels like even if we saved time somewhere, we'd end up losing that time somewhere else due to RNG/frame rules, so not sure if that time will get shaved down before a formal submission, have to check if the other teams found anything interesting. Our main time save was from a major route difference warping to the second half of the game, and it requires coin grinding and a death, so it's hard to compare times (due to our lower sword power and early coin grinding) Link to video http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/60731863423980453 I made a submission notes doc of sorts here with some explanation of tricks: https://docs.google.com/document/d/18jIL71LZHcg_U2I31Ycqkn2q1a2rjbMqhupOeVQrHsI/edit?usp=sharing lua script here: https://pastebin.com/46yA0x8F There's a ton of useful information on this site: https://strategywiki.org/wiki/Genpei_Touma_Den
Blazephlozard
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I couldn't beat it playing real-time, but as a TAS, I'm enjoying it a lot. I like a game where for the most part you move at a clear top speed, and all you have to optimize is the times that you can temporarily get a speed higher than that. It makes it easier to say, "yeah, this looks perfect". As opposed to say Sonic, or from what I've seen, Donald Land. (So if anyone has found a way to go zoom zoom donald land fast the entire time, you're beating us haha)
Blazephlozard
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always 2
Blazephlozard
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Mittenz has suggested our team name be "🐻🐦" I created this fantastic logo for us out of messenger emojis
Blazephlozard
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Yaya, I'll join my Banjo Brothers.
Blazephlozard
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Posts: 175
Location: Ohio
g0goTBC wrote:
I definitely agree with the "Final Boss Skip" tag not being added. My TAS was sort of in a grey zone that I don't see often, so I mentionned it just in case. As for the totals screen, Blazephlozard goes into the file select to show the in-game time at the end of his any% TAS, which isn't necessary for the completion. This made me think that taking 5 extra seconds to show the totals screen after showing the IGT would be fine as well.
I did two different input files, one that reaches the credits (minimum frames) for submission, and one that actually moves during the credits (minimum game time and more entertainment) for encoding
Post subject: Re: #6478: g0goTBC's GBA Banjo-Kazooie: Grunty's Revenge "100%" in 58:51.19
Blazephlozard
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EZGames69 wrote:
TASVideoAgent wrote:
VBA-Next has been timed by Blazephlozard to be the most accurate core to play the game, losing approximately 100 frames or 1.6 s throughout the run from slightly slower loads. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8WRIf7PA2w
I'm a bit confused why mGBA wasnt tested in this comparison.
I definitely did test mGBA core at the time (as well as VBA-M and Retroarch) but I guess I didn't make a video for it. I made that vid because g0go was running on an old VBA at the time, so I was comparing against the version used in his 2nd place time. I knew he had WR potential and wanted to make sure I wouldn't feel like it was emu time differences. (And then he got WR on BizHawk a week later, so that was a smart move). So I did this Spiller's loading zone test on as many GBA emulators as I could find, and BizHawk with VBA-Next came out on top. Here's a quickly made VBA-Next (left) vs. mGBA core vs. console. I don't have the file for my console attempt anymore (and don't feel like setting up amarec capture) so I used the YT video, it's not the most scientific framewise but you can see how mGBA core gets out of sync (due to shorter loads) compared to the VBA-Next and console. https://youtu.be/73Li-hO78p4 In my testing VBA-Next's load zones were always the same or slightly longer than console, where as mGBA load zones tended to be slightly shorter, so that's what I told him to use for speedrunning. (I think I tried Retroarch with VBA-Next core and that also had slightly shorter loads, for whatever reason.) Anyway, I think g0go did an amazing job with this, especially for his first TAS. He did a great job implementing the superjumps to the max where possible, including in some places I really didn't expect (like the rolling section on the way to Breegull Beach, and as the tank). It's a good thing there's so much water in this game! I still want to improve the any% TAS some day, but seeing how much speed he was able to obtain in some of these areas while also collecting everything makes me a little intimidated to try.
Blazephlozard
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Once again, one of the vaultiest Vault TASes possible. great work dugongue
Blazephlozard
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Agree entirely with Habreno, very nice goal choice and the manipulation of the bumpers looks great. Reminds me of old TASes like Tetrisphere and Wetrix. It's insane to get 10 million points that quickly.
Blazephlozard
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Blazephlozard
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Posts: 175
Location: Ohio
I'd have thought this game would have had a TAS a decade ago! (Or at least since the Vault became a thing...) Definitely nice for it to finally get one. The intense stair-climbing action is too much for me to handle though. I had to pause a few times to get through the R-rated thrill ride. So, meh.
Blazephlozard
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I finished the TAS, and World 8 ended up being the best looking part of the run, just like in emu's! I'm really happy with how it all turned out, and it's really great to have given this underrated game some love! http://tasvideos.org/5763S.html
Blazephlozard
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http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/43661155805535296 Currently over half a minute ahead, very happy with how everything's turned out and the number of time saves I've been able to find. Lot of comments for this part... (Heathernapped + Go Headdy Go +) Stair Wars (-8 total, -6 lag): The idle animation RNG manip didn't help here, but I saved a couple frames anyway, and was able to reduce a lot of lag. He has two attacks, and which he does depends on the frame an attack ends. I use a new trick where if you duck and hold left, you can move Bruin rightward without moving around the tower. Towering Internal (-203 total, -8 lag): A lot of small improvements here, especially with the parts where the camera has to pan to you. I abuse the insane height you get from damage boosts to save time on camera pans. Having high X speed doesn't matter, as the tower's rotation is capped. So no fancy Hangman stuff. I defeat the rolling soldier faster by purposely taking damage so that I can hit his otherwise inaccessible hitbox when he's on the ground. This saves a lot of time over using the time stop head. Spinderella (+5 lag): Spinderella is a simple boss for TAS, you do 8 hits in phase 1, get him facing a bit left (look at his little eyes during his second arm attacks), and then are able to do 9 hits in phase 2. I beat up Bino as much as I can too, eheh~ It looks weird, but I idle after the fight. I manage to still get enough pieces for a continue, though! This was mostly to try to manipulate the Gatekeeper, but it ended up not actually affecting Gatekeeper's RNG. However, I did save 1 lag frame exiting the level, so I kept it. Flying Game (+2 total, +4 lag): Fairly basic autoscroller that I had to do twice... Most of the input worked the second time, although my Bird shots and the Battleship's pattern desynced me. I did learn that the Bird Head calls RNG for how fast its birds fire, however! This was the key I needed to manipulate the Gatekeeper; I could fire with the Bird Head during the start of Baby Face! The Flying Battleship has 64 health, but if you try to take him below 8 health too early, he gets healed back up to 11. The clouds have to move all the way down before he can finally go down to 7 health. You want him to die at a low vertical position; I use the Bird Head at the end to manipulate this. That's what saved me 2 input frames! Fly Hard (-730 total, +6 lag): The big time save here is by saving a cycle. Normally, Trouble Bruin will go back into the background midway through the fight; however, he won't do this if you leave his little electric guys alive. Basically, whenever Bruin hits the center of the screen, he does something. The first time, he comes into the foreground; second time, launches electric guys; third time, launches electric guys and goes into the background. But leaving the guys alive messes that up! Once you've done 65 hits on him and he's in the background, he does a final bomb rush and the level ends. Fly Hard 2 (+4 lag): Basic autoscroller. I do an OOB glitch, and I bounce around the walls, whatever... At least it didn't desync at all... Baby Face (-277 total, +3 lag): This is a very cool idea for a 4-phase boss fight. Each phase has 33 HP, and will only switch to the next phase at the end of their current attack cycle. Man Face's cycles is a fixed length as far as I know, and you let Grandpa Face grab you and die of old age. Baby Face will move towards you, then move back to the center. Depending on your position, that will take longer or shorter, so that's where the time save here is. I deal the 33rd hit on the last frame before his cycle ends, so frame-perfect. Boy Face's cycles are a variable length based on RNG (which I can manipulate with the Bird head at the start). There's a potential 4 or 5 frames to save with better RNG here; this was the fastest RNG I could find (most RNG values are either too fast to do a 2-cycle, or are 30+ frames slower), and also led to the fastest Gatekeeper RNG. Headdy Wonderland (-57 total, +3 lag): Okay, ended up with a lot to say here, as I spent a lot of time messing around with manipulating this boss. This is another RNG boss, like Stair Wars, where I need to delay frames to make the boss do a specific pattern. I need Gatekeeper to hop 2 times each time; he can hop 2-5 times. The first hop can be manipulated by delaying entering the fight; the other hops can be manipulated with a combination of idle animations, and making his arm attack last longer. Manipulating the arm attack is a pain, as he has a few set angles he can shoot at. So, after the fastest possible shot, the next fastest is 2 frames loss, and after that is a 9 frames loss. Nasty Gatekeeper has 17 HP, and the fight basically goes like this: Hit him once to enrage him, and bring him to 16 HP He does quick attacks at you 5 times He grabs Headcase off-screen, which has a Bomb Head, and opens up. Hit the Bomb the first frame it appears, so it detonates as soon as possible. He'll do two more arm attacks, then open up to be hit again The Bomb will detonate just as he opens up, and hit him twice, dealing 8 each for 16 damage The frame that his fifth quick arm attack ends (the frame the target reticle disappears/readjusts), he decides how many slow arm attacks he will do before hopping around (sometimes zero). He also decides which arm to attack with first (Headcase arm or Heather arm). So, I need him to attack with his Headcase arm, and do two more arm attacks without hopping away. What he grabs offscreen (Bino or Headcase) is based on the frame his long attack ends; whether or not he opens up is also decided per arm attack. But the number of arm attacks before a hop seems to be fixed once his quick attacks are over. The majority of the possibilities either had him hopping immediately, shooting the Heather arm, or shooting the Headcase arm but hopping away after a third arm attack (which leaves no way to time him opening up). My original Gatekeeper fights needed 40+ frames to get the result I needed. In the end, both Gatekeepers combined, I waited 12 frames to manipulate what I needed. I also found a timesave outside of the RNG. When he does his long arm attacks, his arm keeps going until it hits the floor, and stays there for a little bit of time. However, if he goes straight left or straight right, although his arm travels for longer, it never stops, and then comes back much quicker. This allows me to get the Headcase sooner. I also have him shoot leftwards, so that Headcase appears on screen sooner than if he shot rightwards (the only thing that matters in all this really, is how quickly I can begin a Bomb Head's detonation timer, and Headcase only cycles through his options when he is on-screen). Being the first time I ran into bad luck, I went above and beyond trying to change it, which led to redoing Spinderella and the flying stages, with an idle animation during Spinderella. In the end, I came out 4 frames ahead (3 lag frames, and 1 actual frame from having the Flying Battleship die lower), yet Baby Face and Gatekeeper's RNG stayed the same... It seemed very odd to me, as Flying Game/Fly Hard desynced as expected. But, hey, I was right back where I was but 4 frames ahead, so that was a successful night. From there, with my newfound knowledge, I hoped that shooting the Bird head in Baby Face could change my Gatekeeper RNG. And it did! I also found out that Boy Face's phase length is random, and saved half a second there. In the end, I delayed 9 frames entering the fight, did one 2 frame arm attack, and my Nasty Gatekeeper ended up needing one frame of manipulation to not get Bino. Only 12 frames of manipulation is very good, and less than emu did! Now on to the spike head movement, which is probably the most impressive looking section of the old TAS... The only RNG left should be Dark Demon's attacks, and I should be able to idle during Fatal Contraption (and maybe even during Dark Demon between attacks) to help with that.
Blazephlozard
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Mecha Richter wrote:
Wow, great progress man! I'm looking forward to seeing how many more improvements you find. How exactly does that ball skip work at the beginning of Terminate Her Too? Is there a generous window of timing to hit the target?
Chronoon does it in real-time actually, I didn't come up with that :v It's not too tight to get under the blue girder in time. Then, all you have to do is hit the blocking-arm-thing, which will start the ball rolling once it's done exploding. Then hit the Hit Me thing before it actually does start rolling; now the ball will roll through the wall. I don't think I'll really be finding any real-time-viable improvements, just a lot of little frame stuff. I found a few nice little timesavers in Towering Internal involving the times the camera pans to you.
Blazephlozard
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chatterbox wrote:
Blazephlozard wrote:
However, there is one major thing missing from this, which luckily would be trivial to change if chatterbox wanted to since its at the end. The final boss, Dr. Andonuts, can be one-shot by diamondizing him. This can be done by Mirroring him with Poo, and having Poo do the "tear your limbs off" move. It looks like this would save 2 minutes. (It might also be possible, and way more unlikely, to Pray with the "confuse everyone" result, and have him diamondize himself; but I'm not sure if it'd be faster even if possible. The Pray confuse strat is done in real-time EB any% to have Ness's Nightmare PK Flash himself to death.)
Wow, I've been TASing this ROM Hack for a month, but I realized that I was still immature. I improved the existing record for 2 minutes by the way you suggested. I haven't implemented the rest yet, there seems to be a possibility that it will improve in that way. Under your opinion, I decided to cancel this submission. Thank you for the sharp advice, let's meet again with better improvement...
Aww, dang, you're saying Paula is indeed not required? Well, kudos for looking into if it saves time, but it sucks for all that work to go to waste. (And also sucks for it to no longer be a Halloween-timed submission...) I suppose with only two combats that have to be done without her, it can probably save time. For Phaze Destrortur, I'd guess the fastest way to beat him is to just use the HP sucker for more turns. The HP sucker averages taking away 1/8th of his health +/- 50%, so the minimum would be 6 turns I believe? As you probably noticed, the amount it sucks can be manipulated by what frame you advance its text (in addition to typical manip), I think because its SFX call RNG, so that can help. You'd also want to manipulate him to be asleep during the turns he'd kill everyone, or get Jeff Guts saves. (It'd probably be faster temporarily for Varik to die, actually. Less level ups. But there's no free health refills, so he'd still be dead for the Id unless you heal at the Cave of the Past phase distorter... and Varik would have less attack for the Id... Sorry to suggest more annoying branching paths...) The Id would also be longer, but at least he's not dangerous. I'm not sure if the Planet Buster (which you grabbed) or Sword of kings would be worth grabbing to shave turns off, since they wouldn't be used against Andonuts. With the HP sucker, it should only take a maximum of 6, right? Probably 5 with Varik/Poo attacks. It looked like you did a really great job with all of the enemy despawning/avoiding sections, I hope all of that isn't too much trouble! Good luck!
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Oh, I didn't notice this! I actually routed out a real-time RNG manip route for this game for Halloween, so I'll give this a good look. I was thinking about TASing it, but, I just wasn't sure this game can be Moon-tier, and as a hack, can't be Vaulted. However, right off the gate, with the very cool stutter step skip to immediately reach the Dearkhart fight (which I totally wouldn't have known about!), that's probably like a 10 minute time save at least, skipping the horribly slowest portions of the game, which IMO makes it viable for Moons. Beating Dearkhart with no Paula and no Freeze reflects is quite insane also, which can be seen in just how much RNG manip every turn needed. I think the enemy dodging in the Sea of Eve was especially great (I knew the hearts' hitboxes were wonky, but not THAT wonky), and for what it is (just enemy despawning/dodging and optimized boss fights), it's a good short TAS. And the connection to Toby Fox makes it more note-worthy than many other romhacks. However, there is one major thing missing from this, which luckily would be trivial to change if chatterbox wanted to since its at the end. The final boss, Dr. Andonuts, can be one-shot by diamondizing him. This can be done by Mirroring him with Poo, and having Poo do the "tear your limbs off" move. It looks like this would save 2 minutes. (It might also be possible, and way more unlikely, to Pray with the "confuse everyone" result, and have him diamondize himself; but I'm not sure if it'd be faster even if possible. The Pray confuse strat is done in real-time EB any% to have Ness's Nightmare PK Flash himself to death.) With the final boss having Megalovania playing and all, and having to get around how insanely under-leveled you are with insane SMASH/Pray RNG manipping, it could be argued that fighting Andonuts normally is more entertaining, but I dunno. 2 minutes is a lot in a 20 minute run, and having Andonuts just suddenly beaten in one turn is a pretty funny, unexpected way to end it off as well. Plus, it's kinda weird for the TAS to have a longer Andonuts fight than the real-time run... So, how it should go is, turn 1 after the Id, RNG is manipped so Poo's Mirror succeeds and he goes first turn 2, then turn 2 is manipped for him to do the limb move, and have it diamondize. Very easy to edit in. If that was changed, I definitely think that the romhack is notable enough, and the TAS is short enough and action-packed (about as action-packed as an EarthBound run can be) to be a Moon run. (Also, it doesn't really need a "best ending" category descriptor, this is just the normal ending. any% bad ending would just be a meme) Oh, and I have a big question for chatterbox: Was backtracking to get Paula required? Like, would the Sea of Eve have no exit if you only had Jeff and Poo with you? Or does getting Poo trigger the exit, was Paula only gotten to save time in bosses with her Pray attack? If Paula can be skipped, perhaps it would be worth it now, if she's not needed for Andonuts. That'd require redoing everything past Dearkhart, however, and Phaze/Id would be a lot more turns. (Phaze in particular would need some serious manipulation to beat with only Varik/Jeff, but the trip to Onett is pretty damn long, so I dunno.)
Blazephlozard
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new movie file: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/43189152983233978 preview video: Link to video Mad Dog and Headdy (+4): No change here. I think it's possible to squeeze in one more hit before Mad Dog jumps away, but that'd leave him with 3 HP, which is still 2 hits with the Hammer Head. Down Under (-1): No change, just lag reduction (falling into the floor before the miniboss saved a lag frame) The level ends on a cycle, and there'd have to be a major time save to reach the previous cycle Backstage Battle (-8): Pretty much the same, the only hit that really matters is the last hit, where you want to be as far right as possible, and bounce as low as possible, so Headdy exits the level sooner I think frame RNG is involved in the bounce, but however it happened, I saved some frames here The Green Room (-3): Every hit after the first hit is frame-perfect on both of them, and I also get my first hit on Gentleman Jim sooner (first hit on Puppeteer is on the first frame their hitboxes appear, so first Jim hit is the only variable here, you need to get head control back ASAP) The swinging attack was probably bad RNG for being able to keep the frame-perfect hits, as it makes Jim move a lot and be fairly far away from the Puppeteer, but with damage boosts to stay mid-air longer, I was just barely able to do it. The old TAS was frame-perfect after hit 3 or so, but wasn't perfect on the first 2 hits Clothes Encounters (-89): This boss is the first major case of RNG. The way that his arms and body move are very random, and to get a 1-cycle kill, he needs to do very long arm movements as soon as he becomes vulnerable, so he doesn't jump away. Luckily, changing the frame you take off the pieces influences RNG, because Beau calls RNG for which piece will be vulnerable next. I've also found that starting your idle animation changes RNG (this could be helpful for Stair Wars and Dark Demon), and with the very long intro to idle during (not to mention The Green Room's intro right before it), this fight basically has infinite possibilities. I'm happy to have saved a second and a half, but it's possible to save more, if you happened to get a really fast piece order (minimal distance Beau needs to move) and could take his head off on the first-possible frame, and get a one-cycle from it. The vast majority of options wouldn't have a one-cycle possible. Terminate Her Too (-398): This is the first level with major new tricks. The first is at the start, with a sequence break of sorts making the ball you need to stand on go through the wall, stopping quicker. When I grab the scene-change Hangmans, I jump afterwards, so the Hangman comes to Headdy sooner and saves a few frames. At Mons Meg, I cancel my explosion as soon as possible to get my head back sooner. The second major trick is Tank Skip, doing a damage boost to skip killing the tank mini-boss. Being stuck at the right side of the screen can let you exit levels early. Through the earlier parts of the level, the camera location (not Headdy's location) is what makes things spawn, so it's not advantageous to be stuck at the right except at the end. Fun fact: Because I didn't kill the Tank miniboss, Headcase isn't here. Loses a small amount of time, since the old TAS used a hammer head to get a bigger swing on the next platform Mad Mechs (+6): At the start, I slow down to avoid the knights instead of taking damage through them. This doesn't lose any time, because you'd be stuck waiting for the platform (on a global timer) to move high enough anyway. I saved 2 frames here (8 extra lag frames make it +6), from an extra corner jump at the end; I only hit the top hammer block, and clip into the corner to get a few extra pixels Mad Mechs 2 (-34): These rotating platforms are pretty crazy in how they move Headdy, but they don't adjust the camera; this means the level is actually simple to optimize. After I get the Hammer Head, I go right as soon as possible, and just keep the camera going right at 2 pixels per frame (with occasional clips forward due to the odd mechanics of the platforms; they can temporarily move Headdy off screen, then Headdy snaps back to the right edge of the screen, possibly getting pushed forward if he's inside an object) I've begun Stair Wars, and unfortunately, it seems that the real-time RNG manip is purely a placebo. It's frame timer RNG like everything else, jumping has no impact on it. It is indeed faster to have Bruin at the right part of the screen to reduce how long it takes to move back, and with a new trick (ducking and holding left/right moves Bruin as if you were moving around the tower left/right) and the knowledge that idle animation affects RNG, I hope to save time. Right now I'm 12 seconds ahead, with every level being either the same or having a small optimization!
Blazephlozard
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I've started working on a new version of this TAS, as Dynamite Headdy is one of my favorite games, and there's some new tricks that aren't present in the old one. I'm so impressed by the notes and WIPs emu shared here while making two versions of his Headdy TAS, and they're all no doubt going to help me. Although I'm making my input from scratch, I'll still credit him as an author, as I'm going to be referencing his input quite a bit, and I expect most levels will come out even on frame count. He did an amazing job with this run, especially for a decade ago! And I figure I may as well keep the tradition alive and share WIPs as I go as well. I've completed the first major level, Toys N The Hood, and came out 184 frames ahead! http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/download/42865281621067953 The Getaway (+4): An autoscroller, aside from hitting Bruin as soon as possible. I minimized lag frames during the level, but ended up 4 frames behind still, due to more lag during all the opening titles I do a fun glitch where you get stuck in the wall Practice Area (+4): All you do here is hold right; I came out 4 lag frames behind, so that's a good estimate of how much time Bizhawk loses per level just from load times Toys N The Hood (-192): The basic goal is to have your speed above walking speed (2 pixels per second) as much as possible, from doing what I call Hangman flings. Normal Hangman behavior is that you get pulled towards it, with higher speed if your body is further away. (In some cases, I purposely move leftwards after shooting my head, so that I get a higher speed pull) The way the flings work seem to be that the game does not behave well when Headdy's head is inside the Hangman hitbox when you do a pull towards it. If your head is in the left half of the Hangman's hitbox and you shoot it leftwards, you get flung rightwards, often at 6 pps. On the ascending part, I get a 8 speed fling off the final Hangman where the old TAS got a 6 speed. I dunno how. I do an additional Hangman pull/fling right before getting the Super Head, which activates the foot enemies' cycles sooner. At this point, I'm at the whim of those cycles, as I was unable to get under the left foot before it comes down (the old TAS couldn't either). I purposely slow down to delay starting the right foot's timer. After fighting Catherine and destroying the SBP guys, hugging the right edge of the screen causes the camera to slowly (2pps) pan over to you. Instead, I end the fight in the middle of the screen, so there's no camera pan. I also maximize my Super Head speed as I grab the small head. (I still should try out the Spike Head path, just for thoroughness's sake, although I assume it will be slower, especially as I'd have to wait for Headcase.) 3 seconds saved on the first major level is better than I was hoping! It took like 10 hours to do it though, haha. The next few levels should go faster, although Terminate Her Too through Mad Mechs 2 are gonna be hell again. I stream most of my TAS work on twitch while listening to music: http://twitch.tv/blazephlozard
Blazephlozard
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Doesn't seem like the greatest hack (some very questionable instrument choices on the music especially) but the TAS is incredible to watch and it sounds like it's quite optimized.
Blazephlozard
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Patashu wrote:
I think for this to be accurate you would have to ALSO take pictures of your monitor of each emulator colour palette, so that it's not screenshots vs picture but picture vs picture.
that's way too meta I'm really really sorry if I was rude at all about this, I feel scared like "omg the encoders hate me now" or something haha, I didn't think it'd be a big deal. I think it's safe to say Gambatte palette uses provably inaccurate colors, that's all I knew. I'm kinda liking VBA Accurate too the more I look at it, like now Vivid's looking too bright in comparison instead of Accurate being too dark, haha. I just knew Gambatte was wrong, I hadn't given VBA Accurate a fair shake since I've always used vivid
Blazephlozard
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Alright, I don't have a great camera but I took a photo of my Game Boy screen. I wanted this to be as fact-based as possible. http://i.imgur.com/Prd7n9a.png The palettes are: Gambatte, a photo, Vivid, VBA Accurate (Old), VBA Accurate, GBA "VBA Accurate (Old)" is, uh... Maybe if you dunked your Game Boy into a bathtub it'd end up looking like that? And "GBA" looks like Vivid with a terrible threshold filter over it. So forget them. Of the other three, comparing to this photo, VBA Accurate seems to be the winner, looking at the Charizard's shade of orange, the contrast between the blue outline and yellow text of the Pokemon logo, and the tan background (compared to Vivid's yellowish-tan). Under ideal lighting conditions, I do think a GBC screen's color shades look closest to Vivid's (in addition to Vivid being the most accurate to GBP and 3DS VC, which are certainly official hardware, though not original). And I don't agree with the concept of purposely using ugly colors to try to look more "accurate" (shouldn't GB TASes be encoded with a yellow-green filter then?). But I couldn't capture a photo of ideal lighting conditions, and VBA Accurate doesn't have the major color-shifting issues of the Gambatte palette, so if Vivid's some kind of issue to you guys, I'm completely fine with VBA Accurate being used. Watching the game in VBA Accurate, I think "this looks kinda dark" instead of "this looks wrong".
Post subject: Re: #5597: Blazephlozard's GBC Pokémon Trading Card Game in 21:30.96
Blazephlozard
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natt wrote:
It's a tricky question, as the GBC's LCD is not backlit, and so color output depends on viewing environment. Using the Gambatte preset will give a color output that, when viewed on a properly adjusted computer monitor, will appear to the human eye as reasonably close to how real GBC hardware appears in average lighting conditions. If there's a slightly more accurate palette that the community would like to see used, I'll gladly add it to Bizhawk, but the idea that a real GBC screen could output a gamut anywhere near sRGB (what the Vivid preset gives) is patent nonsense.
Well, I'm playing the game right now, on real GBC hardware, in average lighting conditions, and it looks nothing like the Gambatte palette, and does look like the Vivid palette but with less backlight. Game Boy Player looks like Vivid, with adjustable brightness/contrast based on your TV settings. The "VBA Accurate" palette is a bit better, especially with reds/oranges, but it is still overexaggerating how "washed out" a GBC screen is. All versions of the game should be outputting the same color data; from there, the only thing that should be adjustable is brightness/contrast. How could orange turn into a color closer to purple/pink? I'm really not trying to cause issues here, I just don't understand how you can say "Gambatte is how the game looks on a GBC" when it simply is not. You will never find a screenshot of the game, or even a camera picture of a screen (which I'll try to get one of), where the game's colors look closer to Gambatte than Vivid.
Post subject: Re: #5597: Blazephlozard's GBC Pokémon Trading Card Game in 21:30.96
Blazephlozard
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natt wrote:
TASVideoAgent wrote:
Note for encoder (probably Spikestuff): Please use the Vivid color palette. I think the TASvideos encode used the default "Gambatte" palette, and I don't know exactly what it's supposed to be, because Charizard isn't pink, he's orange
A Gameboy player is not a Gameboy.
He is also orange on my Game Boy Color tho. The entire game has an incorrect look with the Gambatte palette, that was just the best example I could find. The Vivid palette looks pretty much identical to what the game looks like on a GBC or GBA, and I just tested both. The Gambatte palette does not look accurate to any version of the game I've ever seen.
Blazephlozard
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FractalFusion wrote:
Oh nice. You managed to use just 3 deck edits! It would indeed be difficult to improve on this. Better luck manipulation maybe, but as is typical of TASes, the amount of effort required per second gained tends to grow exponentially with the revision number of the TAS. What's your next TAS project? Is it Pokemon Card GB2?
nah, I don't think I'd be happy trying to do that project at the optimization level I'd want it at, there's so many more variables and deck requirements. I was thinking an updated Dynamite Headdy TAS. I don't think there's much to improve over emu's excellent work, but there are some new tricks/skips used in real-time runs
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