Posts for BoltR


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Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
Joined: 8/12/2004
Posts: 651
Location: Alberta, Canada
Remember that time you said you would never do this game? Ahar, I told you that you cannot hide forever!
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Mr. Aran wrote:
If I were you, I would keep to the green route. Super missles are valuable enough to grab, and you can recharge them at Kraid by using the Chozo Statue holding Unknown Item. Jumping up and over the pillar, to me, is faster than doing the wall jump scramble. Greetings from M2K2 >_<
Welcome, and thanks for your input. Anything helps, no matter how small or insignificant one thinks it may possibly be. I do appreciate you coming, and am glad to see that someone was mellow enough and decided to follow the link posted and give some sort of feedback, without me even asking. I've been attempting to take a small break, but i've had a hard time keeping the game out of my head, so i'll give a small update of my thoughts: Now that i've done some preliminary work on the next version of the run it seems that breaking 20 minutes might be easier than I first though. The lag seems to have a much greater effect on the speed of the run than I thought, and without it beleive I would have been close to 20 minutes. On top of that I admit that I rushed the end of the run, and it is possible that there up to a minute, or possibly slightly more that can be saved there. I also have a better knowledge of Samus's acceleration and jumping, which will save a hand full of frames here and there. Anyways too the more improtant improvement, which is the route. As it stands right now I beleive that killing Kraid first may be quite a bit faster. Killing him with 3 quick super missiles will only be roughly 150 frames faster than killing him with regular ones. This would, of course, allow me to have speed booster in ridley, which opens the window for quite a bit of saved time. Here is a list of things which I am currently testing: - Alternate super missile location. Is it faster than backtracking? Would it save time to get 6 before Mother Brain to eliminate backtracking to fill up again? - Alternate missile locations. This is extremely important if i'm doing Kraid first, as I will want 20 before I enter his room. Also would it be worth getting an extra one or two to save backtracking at Mother Brain? - How much slower is the zipline room without morphjump? Ontop of that, is it faster to bomb myself onto the blocks, or horizontal bomb jump across? This will be hard to test, as getting the "perfect" horizontal bomb jump is quite difficult, I always end up wasting time doing it. - A few shinesparks. See how much time they saved, and if some are even possible. I'll provide more details of the points as I look into them more, but in the mean time if anyone has ANY ideas which they think might save a few frames here or there let me know, and I will test it. Even if it's not directly related to my run, anything which will help out future runs, emulated or console is worth mentioning to me to be tested.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
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Some people (you know who you are) have brought up that I don't use every known trick or what have you, but there is a reason. Well, unless it's some "brand new trick that i'm keeping secret for my own benefit" which I don't know about. For example, there is the new 'timesaver' where you walljump up and clear some of the crumble blocks so you don't need to backtrack to get a super missile before Ridley. It has been said that the backtracking before Ridley wastes 20 seconds. For people who don't know what i'm talking about i've provided a nice little picture of it, complete with extremely messy routes drawn onto it. The green being the route I took, and the orange being the "new and improved route". Both start in the upper left corner near the 'S', and end on the right hand side of the screen; where they continue out of that world. The distance spent backtracking can be seen between the two cyan bars, as every other movement is being done in both routes. It's not really that far, definately not twenty seconds worth of running. It's actually about the same length as one room. Now as pointed out, if you don't backtrack to get the super missiles before the Ridley fight with only 30 missiles and 2 super missiles. Not enough to kill Ridley. So one needs to wait for Ridley to shoot his large fireballs and kill one for a super missile. You will notice that in my current run I kill him before he even manages to shoot any. I would have had to wait about another second or two for him to fire any, waited ~2 (or more) seconds to get down to a level where I could possibly hope reaching them, and finally 1-2 seconds collecting and firing the missiles. Next the orange route needs to wall jump up, destroy crumble blocks, and then finally jump off other crumble blocks to get back up the missles. Each WALL JUMP wastes about 5 frames due to animation. You need probably atleast 6 walljumps (I cannot remember off hand for some reason), wasting another half second. YES I AM AWARE I NEED TO SPEND TIME CLIMBING THE SAME DISTANCE IN THE GREEN ROUTE ANYWAYS. However during that time i'm using grip to climb, that wastes 0 frames up upward movement. Unlike walljumping. Also, the act of crumbling the blocks themselves and jumping up and around takes atleast 5 seconds. Finally we have to look at the aftermath. The green route has pretty smooth sailing, no real enemies in the way, and not too many jumps. So you keep your maximum running speed all the way through. The upper route is infested with hoppers, and you need to be jumping constantly. After the fight with Ridley I would have been very low on rockets, and would need to be saving for Kraid. This means that I would need to take damage on the hoppers, which loses alot of time. All the jumping causes you to lose all your speed too, for each jump you need to spend time building up your running speed, and acceleration DOES use alot of time. Better awareness of Samus's running acceleration is how i've managed to save most of the time on my new NON-LAGGY version. So far i've save ~8 seconds on a 2 minute section of video from it. Sorry, but when I take all of the facts into consideration I dont' see this new discovery as a time saver... Either way, it doesn't matter now. As i've said i'm working on a new route which isn't based on GameCube04's at all. After i'm done I plan on getting this thing done in under 20 minutes.
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Well I would consider it possible to save the charge for that long, as it is a loooonnng way up that shaft. Although it might be possible if I managed to shoot out a block just as I was getting to it, then grip on it instantly and jump up further and repeat. I don't think this would be possible without highjump however. Even with it I don't think it's possible. I'll test it later when i'm in the mood to fight with the game for frames.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
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Sorry, but i'm not sure which shinespark your talking about... The one right after Kraid doesn't enter any extra rooms to charge... The shinespark after that (to the left) is required as the zipline isn't powered up.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
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Well right now i'm working on a Kraid first run. If it's not as fast as I think it should be, i'll redo the Ridley first one. So I guess you might be seeing 2 more.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
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I've started my next version, with the non-laggy emulator. I just felt like banging something out and as a result I didn't get very far before a route decision came up and I had to stop to do some calculations. I am current 449 frames ahead after the first boss (charge beam beast). How's that for improvement?
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
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That is kind of what I figured, although I have a feeling they might be missing things which would require me to replan stuff anyways.
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Well thanks everyone. As for the improvement nitsuja pointed out: I jumped a conclusions on that one. Every time I played the game I remember having to wait for him to turn his back again, when I tested without any delays entering the room (going as fast as possible), I ended up having to wait for him to turn around. It ended up being 127 frames slower than just getting seen. I then just skipped a whole bunch of frames (just held down frame advance for a while) figuring that it would give me a greater change than 1 frame difference, and tested with that. Again I had to wait for him to turn around. I didn't bother to check exactly how much faster/slower it was though. I just said to myself "Well I guess that's just the way it is", as the Space Pirates are scripted to do certian things in the game. Either way, as I said in my post i'm planning another run already so next version there will not be lag anymore. I'll also fix problems suchs as the space pirate one. As the run has taken a route which I (don't think) has been taken before, I am at the stages of deciding which items to get where and when. This gives me a small amount of freedom, rather than just copying the current route, but will take a while as i'm going to need to be testing one route against another. Some of which make up a few minutes of game time.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
Joined: 8/12/2004
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Blechy wrote:
http://users.ign.com/collection/Blechy I love that page. I don't know how many I still have though, I think I've been forcing my grandmother to keep them in her closet for some time. Probably will sell them eventually.
128. Panty Raider: From Here to Immaturity eehehhehhehehhehehhehehheh
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
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Editting your message to try to annoy people into helping you isn't going to help you any. It's something that will get you banned...
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
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Yeah, the amount you slow down when you do just about anything is way too much. Although this series proves that SNES games can have fast games too! Are you planning on playing the second Bubsy game?
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Well i'm at Mecha Ridley in just under 34 minutes real time. Only about 3 minutes left of game. I don't think i'll finish it tonight though, as i'm pretty tired. I'll have the final thing uploaded probably tommorow afternoon sometime.
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SSVegetto wrote:
You know what fine I dont care anymore, I just wont talk here anymore. I dont like it when people tell me what to do. IF I DONT LIKE SOMETHING I DONT HAVE TO LIKE IT.
If you don't like it, and won't connect because you are too lazy to message someone once you do that's fine. Just shut the hell up about it. As you said you don't need to use it.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
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Ok well it's updated again, as i've hit a major point where I want the people's input. Do I get seen when i'm running around as Samus or not? The VERY first spacepirate takes FOREVER to turn around so you can shoot in in the back, and it is ~125 frames slower to wait for him. I only end up in "alarm mode" for 1 room really, as I hide away in the second one. This should be the only time where getting spotted is faster than being stealthly. So: 100% Stealth, or get seen once at the very first Space Pirate to go ~125 frames faster?
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1) You pasted 7 lines for no real reason, not 4 2) What part of lilo@levin-pdpc.staff.freenode indicates that he is not infact staff? That is generally how staff hostmasks look... 3) If you read the site you would have read: the simplest way to get help is to email staff at freenode dot net. Or you can visit channel #freenode and issue the command "/who *.staff.freenode" to find a list of staffers. Then /msg a staff member for assistance. 4) If you have read the topic of #freenode you would have read: Need help? /msg staffer (/who *.staff.freenode) Looking at the log you posted they were making fun of you because you were asking questions which were already answered for you. Such as "Is anyone an ircop here to help me". I also doubt they banned you for "no reason". Especially as you decided not to include that part of the log. I'm projecting that you got mad at them and starting arguing with them.
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I guess that would be an option too.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
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nitsuja wrote:
Anyway, if that's what you want to do, fine. The only thing I'm not sure of is whether a 2nd version you do is worth also doing with lag just for the sake of making it more comparable - I think it will be clear or at least possible to determine which is faster without needing to do that.
The reason I was going to do this is because I could use more of the first movie. I want the bit up until the paths diverge to be the exact same. That and I don't like doing that spike worm boss at the very beginning. I guess I could just take down both times when I enter the hive room and subtract taht difference from the final.
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The reason I say it doesn't effect the frames at all is because when i'm playing the laggy sections I do not know they are going to be laggy until I play it back. Samus moves the EXACT same amount of distance in those sections. The only exception to this is the room before bomb, where the sprite glitches a bit and the controls aren't very reseptive. During this time Samus still moves the same amount/speed during frame advance though, so it wasn't too terribly difficult to deal with the lag. I just delt with it like I would with lag in any other game, by throwing in an extra frame of delay so it accept my movement properly. The reason the first set of updates came so quickly is because it's a game I like to play, and have a large amount of experience with. For the most part I have spent ~6-8 hours a day on it so far. Right when I get back from class I start working on the run, up until I goto sleep (I'm like mini Teri, I suppose). On weekends and days off i've worked on it probably ~10+hours each. That is when i'm not with friends, although I didn't to much recently with them though. Alot of it has been testing paths through rooms and counting frames. My original plan was to do a Ridley run as best I could, and submit it. Then work on a Kraid run to offset against the Ridley run. If that was faster, submit that. If the Ridley run was still faster, I would then redo it with what i've learned from the Kraid run. I can continue to do this, but have the third version on the non-laggy version because that just makes sense. That would be more than fine by me. As for the tests: Not really. The whole idea is a slower route through Kraid, and slower Kraid kill for a earlier speed booster. How much time is wasted doing Kraid first compared to how much speed booster saves in Ridley? Hell if I know. As for the first 5000 frames, it's good to know. Although if I start a run on the non laggy version I will not be using my laggy versions beginnings. From what i've learned now I would redo it. Mostly for cosmetic purposes, but I think I could squeeze a small handful of frames out it aswell. Not worth restarting the whole laggy version for 4 frames off very beginning.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
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I say go for it.
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Well another update, which is up to the first metroid near Mother Brain. It seems that shinesparking is just not working out for me. At first I tried saving a shinespark all the way up the shaft between Kraid and the Kraid/Ridley statue and using it in the room between the K/R statue and the Chozo Statue. Unfortunately it didn't end up saving any time, so I had to cut it. The second try would be shinesparking the metroid (didn't know the result as I had never tried it), but well you can see the result. This is where a Kraid first and a Ridley first run would meet up and join to be the same. Either way, at this moment i'm facing a hard desicion. I might stop this run right now and not complete it. I don't know if it's just worth it with all the new versions of VBA that are coming out (Not knocking it, keep up the good work nitsuja), I have no idea what is going to happen to the timing in the future, and am not even sure anymore if the laggy version is even acceptable. I suppose in a way I did this to myself, as I was the one who started speaking out about the lag. Now, I like the run and think that I have done a very good job on it so far. I also think there are a bunch of people who agree with me on this. Although, I honestly don't know if it will fit into the submission criteria now or later this weekend when I would probably get it finished. There are probably still atleast 10 hours of work to be done on the video, and I don't know if I want to throw that much more time away when I could be working on something else. Although, most of what is left is just running around, and it's not very much of it. This however DOES NOT MEAN I WOULD BE DROPPING IT ALL TOGETHER. I would just be dropping THIS VERSION, and start work on a Kraid first run. On the laggy version again, as even though the lag doesn't seem to effect the frame count, and it could still be compared to a nonlaggy version in terms of speed anyways. This would just be to see which route is actually faster to take. I would obvoiusly not release the Kraid version either. What exactly does this mean, assuming the laggy version isn't acceptable? Well you won't see any progress for a long time; as I will not be bothered to post updates, and I won't be pushing myself to get it done as fast as possible. After I have both versions complete up to mother brain I can get a picture on which is faster, and will sit on the results. The amount of time I sit on them all depends on how long it takes for the timing to get 100% finalised on VBA. This might be already done when the Kraid run gets finished, or it might be months after. Either way, I cannot see it being too soon. I guess that in the end, the main desicion relies with the judges and nitsuja. I asked Bisqwit last night, and I beleive his response was along the lines of 'if nitsuja thinks it's suitable then it's fine with me'. So I guess we will see the response from everyone else. Although I suppose if enough people annoyed me about it I would probably end up completing it for you jerks anyways...
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Ersatz wrote:
About your latest update... after you kill kraid to save some time I do believe you can bomb jump over the top of his exploding corpse and enter the next room while he is still exploding.
Heh, where did you hear that? Either way, even as it's not true I decided to bomb jump anyways. As I know Walker Boh would want it somewhere.
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You know what they say. Want something done [well], do it yourself.
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Bag of Magic Food wrote:
Yeah, BoltR still thinks the timing's inaccurate, although it's closer. GSGold thinks we need to bring in more developers. :)
What I ment when I said that was: It is more logically inaccurate rather than phsyically inaccurate. Arbitrarily changing values in a table may solve to problem to our eyes, but doesn't mean the timing is correct, or even close to correct. Does that mean that when the game "randomly" generates the behaviour of an enemy, or the contents of a room that it is the same as on the console? While what you have done may be very close to what is proper we cannot say it's perfect, and there might be future problems. It is possible to get more favourable monster spawnings just by changing that memory access table. The main point of me saying that: To fix the problem I beleive the core of the emulator might need a rewrite, as that might be easier than breaking down and attempting to actually fix the [almost completely] uncommented code which is already there. Not that i'm expecting or even asking you to do this, as that's not really fair. Although I think this might be what needs to be done in the end to fix the problem.
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Well when he is sliding you don't actually see his stick... Here is him poking with the first spear in the game. Which is blue. And here he is sliding.
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