I made one when testing mouse rerecording support in zsnes for Nach a long time ago, but it's really worth watching a run of it and definitely not worth publishing.
The 'this is the hardest game ever' doesn't come from the fact that it has challenging/interesting gameplay. It comes from the fact that the guy who made it APPARENTLY 'hates video games' and tried to make a game that no one would WANT to finish.
A TAS of it wouldn't be entertaining at, doing things hitting A 10000 times to 'kill' the last boss with no visual feedback of how many times you have hit it. You also need to sing karaoke into a very crude microphone for 20 minutes. I don't even know if that's possible in FCEU...
Here is another fun part of the game: Waiting 1 hour without touching the controller.
You say that now, but you haven't seen me super amazing (and entertaining) SMB3 run yet! You sir, will be so shocked and amazed that you will eat your hat!
I totally baffled why you are trying to publish this run on the site adelikat. Something like this belongs somewhere like youtube. There are already PLENTY of similar videos on youtube.
How many versions of each game do you want on the site? How many versions of 'play around' runs per game do you want? How are you going to even deal with all of those?
What is stopping me of making a TAS with 5 savestates of me 'having fun' and goofing around in SMB3 and submitting it?
Ok, if I did, and it make some people laugh because of my 'body language' with Mario? It gets published? What if someone else then does the very similar thing? Are you just going to publish theirs along side?
Are we just going turn the site into a TAS machinima site?
I don't remember how the host_framerate command plays with demos, but I don't think that it affects demo playback.
Technically it has save states too, however I feel sorry for you if you actually were to try to optimize it using them. I would say possibly you could write a mod to cache the quick saves, and then string them together without a any loading screens but I don't think you have that much control over the game with the SDK.
Also it has .dem files, so that's a bit of a bonus.
I politely disagree with your argument, but I do agree that the submission queue has shrunk. The thing is, what is stopping the queue from growing in size again? If the voting helps the judges get things done quicker and more efficiently (as in not letting the movies pile up) I would argue for keeping the voting.
More judges have been added, and adelikat does a lot of work. There are also A LOT more people who are willing to help in this department.
Warp wrote:
I think that the basic idea of the poll is that the actual judges, those who actually decide if the submission is accepted or not, can get second opinions and points of view from other people. This can be very helpful because they can miss something important. 30 eyes see more than 2. If a submission gets a considerable amount of "no" votes then the judges will look more closely at what could be the problem people are seeing with the submission.
This is what the idea was, but that was back when there were over 100 movies in the queue. We didn't have time to read through 100 topics, some of which could have double digit page counts, to see which movie should be posted first. It was easy to fall behind. Now there are less than 20, so it's not as hard to read them.
AKA wrote:
I think the key advantage of the rating system would be to determine what runs to prioritise and what runs to quickly reject.
That is all I used to use it for, and I think is all Bisqwit did too. Go into the submission queue, pick a movie with one of the highest confidence factor, read through the thread, and then take ownership of the publication.
PJBoy, you have touched on one of the huge problems with the poll in the last few posts of yours. Everyone votes on their own terms. It doesn't matter what the text says, they vote yes or no based on their own criteria. They might vote no because the game kicked their dog when they were young, and not say anything about it. The game might (not) use a glitch that some people don't like. Really it's not very helpful.
Also you have a few judges and former judges comments in the thread. I'm not sure if you would count me or not, as i've been in limbo for the past long while. Working 12+ hour days is killing me, and in the short term it's only going to get worse. However, I was doing it back in the days of the 100 movies queues, and it's something I look forward to getting back to once I have free time again. Hopefully soon...
Remember, deleting the poll will if anything only encourage more discussion in the thread itself. In the end comments are way more important to judges than the stupid poll. A bunch of no votes doesn't change anything, but ONE good comment could make the difference between a publication or not.
Here's the easy solution: Remove the poll.
-It was added back when the submission queue was WAY out of control.
-It was added to help judges pick out what movies should be published first out of a ton of games which they may not have known anything about.
-It was added to relieve the complaining when a movie would go a long time without publishing because none of the judges knew anything about the game. Bisqwit & Co. are busy people and didn't have time to go through the 60+ submissions which were in queue and read the discussion every time they had time to publish something. Presented with a large list like that it's easier to stick with what you know.
-It was this here which is what it made it useful.
-It WAS NOT added to give the site a more democratic feel to it. People seem to completely ignore that fact. If a movie has 25 yes votes a judge could reject it just because they wanted to. Even though that wouldn't likely happen.
The queue has since shrunk, and it's not needed anymore, so remove it. It's become extra fluff. All it does now is cause arguments, or cause problems such as people voting multiple times on your own movie. Drama is not a good thing.
Removing it just means that people would actually need to actually voice their opinion of why a movie should be published, rather than arbitrarily voting. This is a good thing.[/url]
Yep, the null keys are part of what I meant when I said it was hard to get rid of.
To be fair. It's possible that 2kgames didn't want to put SecuROM in the game and was forced to do so by their publisher; that happens alot. However, then it probably wouldn't have it on the Steam version as well, so who knows.
It's good that it's actually reached the media that this has been going on, and people are starting to kick up a fuss. A lot of people are still sore over the Sony audio cd rootkit from the past, and are angry that they didn't learn their lesson from it; even if it's not really the same thing. (SecuROM is Sony)
I'm passing on it, as I try to avoid buying games with copy protection similar to what the game has. Last time I had that specific version of SecuROM on my computer (from C&C3) the service that it installs kept throwing kernel mode errors. Then the game didn't want to uninstall because I had notepad and IRC running, and wouldn't let me do so until I closed them. After I uninstalled the game SecuROM itself wasn't removed, and it used a shady method to try and keep me removing it when I tried to do it. So I had to go and download tools that would normally be used to remove trojans to get rid of it.
If a company is going to treat me like a thief, and straight up break my OS with a method of copy protection which doesn't even work. Then they sure aren't going to get my money.
Frankly, i'm surprised no one posted this:
Edit: Damn, Zurreco already said something about it. You wreck my fun.
Also I agree, Goeman would be stupid cool.
I'm going to go out on a limb here (heh) and say it's not the most difficult one. As I can actually play it and didn't suck at it from the moment I picked it up.
Also, there are already basically perfect videos up on youtube. And I think some where slowdowns were used. Sooooooo....
Edit: Hi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWQR-7vmf8g
Currently I have it changed to something similar 1), just with room for cases such as Castlevania 3. I think it's likely the best answer to avoid conflicts for movies which are made in the future.
However, that rule is not really where the problem lies.
The problem is in the obsoletion of past movies. The way that this part rules are CURRENTLY worded, would work. HOWEVER, this is only assuming the movie which is being obsoleted follows the first set of rules for making a new movie(1)).
The reason behind this being: If a run isn't already made with (U), there was a specific reason why it wasn't. Thus the only reason to switch back to (U) would be something like a new trick for the (U) version was found which doesn't exist in the other version.
Unfortunately the current wording isn't solid when dealing with old already published movies which might have been published in a different language with no real reason. So it does need to be reworded.
I also see this thread turning into an argument of entertainment vs the SDA people. *coughstansksicough* ;p
Because if you want to just go with the fastest version than a lot of the time you will end up running on the (J) version because of faster text, which will upset a lot of the (U) "I want to read the text) crowd".
Yes, Phil was heavily involved, and many disagreed with him. But for the most part, it was kept to the subject at hand - more so than past disputes. Both sides have good points, and both sides presented their take on things. This is a discussion, not an argument.
Yes, there are people who haven't spoken yet. Do you assume they will all swing this thing in the other direction? Or is it a million times more probable that those who have spoken are a subset of this community that nearly accurately represents the community as a whole? Should we throw out every run's vote count and posts because there MIGHT be people who don't like it who haven't posted so yet?
Oh hey, look in normal JXQ fashion you ignored most what I wrote. Yes, both sides did have good points. Not everyone who posted in this thread did prefer your run. Some who did only did because it was slightly faster, even though they found it less entertaining. Not everyone that has given their opinion has posted in this thread, probably because they don't want to bother getting 'discussed' at by you, or care enough to spend their time posting when it will be ignored by you anyways.
JXQ wrote:
No, it wouldn't. This submission is not breaking the rules. Please read this excerpt from the Rules, which I've stated several times:
"If there is already a published video, do not use a different ROM than what it uses, unless the new movie is obviously better for reasons that are not only caused by the version change, or the ROM is superior (or a language change), and you can show how it should be compared to the existing movie."
The ROM isn't superior, and I'm pretty sure that Bisqwit has said multiple times in the past that a simple language change isn't enough to warrant using a different version. Either way, it doesn't matter because I wasn't rejecting it anyways. Calm down there buddy.
JXQ wrote:
This submission is within the rules at the time it was submitted.
I am not stepping on anyone's toes by demanding a fair discussion.
I did indeed expect backlash/controversy.
I did not expect judges and admin to look at sides of the discussion inequally.
If you expected a backlash, stop crying about the ensuing backlash. This isn't grade 2. Stop trying to get attention like it is. Things don't always turn out the way you want them too.
And for the main purpose of my post. I'm done arguing with you, the verdict was given. The rules will be updated so people don't try and stir things up again. No matter what is said it won't stop you from whining.
You are worse than Phil.
BoltR, my annoyance was never with whether the run would end up accepted/published or not, it was only in how the discussion was handled by Bisqwit and yourself in this thread. I've already addressed the specifics, and it just comes down to the fact that I feel treated unfairly.
I can't speak for Cardboard, but the fact that I don't care about acceptance/publication is exactly why I didn't start a discussion beforehand asking if everyone thought the (U) version was ok because I really don't care if some people don't like it. If enough people don't like it, then it won't be published. That's fine, I still had fun doing the TAS. What I do care about is when those people who do like it are not taken as seriously as those who do not, and that definitely happened in this discussion.
I personally haven't been ignoring the people who have enjoyed the run, but you have to remember there ARE also people who enjoy the old run, and find it more entertaining. There are also more people that watch these runs, than there are who post in this forum (or in this thread). Also I think you will agree that this post has at times degenerated into a 'World vs Phil' style argument (again), which may or may not have skewed the general opinion in the thread. So we cannot conclusively say that your run is better based solely on that the people who have voiced their opinion in this thread.
Next we have the whole version change. This is very subjective. There are the people who will get hours of entertainment from the word cock, and others that will prefer Hitler in the game. Then we have the rule that states you should use the same version unless there is an obvious reason not to. From what I've seen/heard from other people the changes to the actual game play don't REALLY make a difference. Especially if you aren't watching the two side by side. Then we have the difference of English vs Japanese. Again subjective. Some people will like the slower English text because they can read it, others will prefer the quick Japanese text because they could care less and just want to see the action. If the Japanese text was the slower of the two you would have a MUCH stronger argument.
When it comes down to it, neither version is obvious better. Each has it's merits and flaws. This if we were going completely by the rules would, I suppose, get your run rejected. However, I do recognizing the work you guys put into the run, and because of that and the fact that the (U) version isn't any worse than the (J); it wouldn't really be fair to just flat out reject it.
So if no version is obviously superior, and we can't say for absolute certain which run is more entertaining; then what left is there? Completion time, and yes your run is currently faster. Both in comparable and actual time. This is, as far as I know, the reason why Bisqwit has set the current status back to accepted (with a condition), and I agree with it on principle. However, I personally would have kept the status on delayed. Simply because if someone does publish this run, and shortly after the (J) version is submitted which is faster we will have yet another argument. Probably every bigger than this current one. Something I don't think any of the judges want to deal with. Moderating arguments is not something enjoyable and donating your free time to. I sort of get the impression that Bisqwit set it to accepted to satisfy the people in this thread, with the hope that the (J) run makes it into the workbench before an encoder touches it, so that a simple choice can be made by speed, so he wont' need to deal with the argument. As frankly he has better things to do. (These may not actually be his feelings, and I don't intend to be putting words into your mouth Bisqwit. Sorry)
Also, I'm sorry you feel that way, but if you are knowingly bending rules and stepping on people's toes and simply don't care. Isn't it a bit naive to not expect some sort of backlash?
Edit: Damn, Zurreco already said something about it. You wreck my fun.
Also I agree, Goeman would be stupid cool.