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Nearby the room with the bomb refill is a room with an arrow refill. It would only take me a few seconds to collect that, too. Is that a better idea than taking it in level 6? Also, it seems to me that I should take the refills when I'm closest to the rooms, and that would be right before I fight phase 1 of the miniboss. Unless you're thinking of a different route to those rooms? More clarification would be nice... all this dungeon 5 stuff is quite confusing :)
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Tompa wrote:
Another thing... Is it possible to skip the enddialog at the skeleton by pressing Start or S/Q? Can you avoid getting hit by the enemy when pushing the block to get the key at start? The caused you to lose time...
I hadn't known at the time that you could still push a block while in midair, but this is now fixed. I checked the text-skipping, but I can't skip it...
Tompa wrote:
I'll watch your videos once I can get to a computer that can download from that site, but is this the route you were thinking of?
Phase1: bomb, bombarrow, bomb
Phase2: bomb x2, take refill in other room
Phase3: bomb x2
Phase4: bombarrow x3; or bomb, bombarrow x2
Tompa wrote:
Another thing that I was thinking about... Someone should make a better version of the Screen Skip version of this game. As you can take the sword faster now. That will save some secs:).
Yeah, I also noticed that Tarin can be talked to from farther down the screen... unless I've got an older version of the video.
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I'm still pretty confused, so I just made a WIP with the first plan in mind. I think dropping a bomb will waste ~3-4 seconds x3, and I'm not sure that time lost is worth it.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1572/Testrun3.vbm,
Let me know if it's really much better to save that arrow... I think it looks awesome to kill the boss this fast using the old strategy of 2 bombarrows, but that's just me.
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Quick question: I am able to beat the master skeleton relatively quickly saving an extra arrow using this strategy: Charge sword, switch to bombs/arrows, drop a bomb while spinslashing, bomb explodes, bombarrow, drop another bomb and let that explode. Is it worth it in the long run (like, could I save extra time on a future boss by having more arrows) to save 4 extra arrows, or is it better to just use them for bombarrows on the master skeleton?
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I've achieved 116 exits 100% speed not using savestates, although I did cheat by looking at the 120 exit TAS for the solutions to many of the levels :) Most of Big Boo's world was horrible for me, especially the tower, but I had collected 99 lives from the mushroom houses previously, so I had lots of tries.
Some tough levels for me:
Desert Pyramid
Pipe World 5
Bowser's Castle
Pretty much all of BB's World
By the way, has anybody besides me discovered the alternate area in Big Boo's secret?
**Spoilers for how to get there**
In the ceiling of the first room you enter, above the first set of ? blocks, there's a space you can fly through (you can't see it, though). If you can fly all the way to the top, you'll be above the screen. Fly to the right, and eventually you'll come to a new area!
**End spoilers**
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Through getting the ballad of the wind fish:
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1527/Testrun3.vbm
Notes:
For the Angler Key boss, I dropped a bomb, spinslashed, and slashed once to kill it. I switch to feather so I can jump one frame before collecting the key and thus be in midair :) This keeps me from moving up and the key from falling down. That way, I can S&Q warp back to the village.
Also, S&Q from getting the Ballad is 200 frames faster than just walking back to the warp hole.
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Tompa wrote:
Looks very good. I hope you are able to use the "double bomb" glitches and kill the Angler's Key boss. You can kill him with either 2 bombs, 2 arrows or 8 slashes with the sword. A bomb does 5 damage and an 4. But if you aren't able to kill him with "a" double bomb you can use one bomb, one charge with the sword and one regular hit. Bombarrows would have been the best thought... I need to change some things in the bomb/arrow using then.
I think I can charge my sword, drop a bomb above me using the glitch, and jump in spinslashing. That shouldn't be too much trouble, I hope...
2 bombarrows (17 bombs 13arrows) for hidden knight.
I only used one bombarrow for the initial blast (to get the knight un-hidden), then I used one regular arrow. It's hard to see, but I'm pretty sure I do save one bomb here. Does this affect your counts in any way?
Tompa wrote:
Another thing that I started to think about: Have you calculated how many enemies you shall kill to get a PoP where you need it most? I haven't given this so many thoughts...
The way I do it, I just kill any enemies I can reach as I complete the game in the TAS. When I find out which gives a piece of power, I can either quit killing enemies and save it for an opportune moment, or I can revert back 2-3 enemies so I can kill the best one for the piece of power.
So far, this has happened in different ways for the 2 PoP's:
1) The moblin boss. I knew I had to get one eventually, so I just made sure to kill any enemy in the forest I could reach, as you probably noticed. It just happened to work perfectly on my first try.
2) 3rd dungeon. In the first version, before I redid dungeon 2, I found that the knight by the crow with the golden leaf gave me the piece of power. Therefore, I just avoided him and "saved" the PoP drop until dungeon 3, although avoiding him actually lost me time. In the new version, I planned out the drop better and killed the "best" enemy for the drop in dungeon 3, as you can see.
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Newest WIP, it's up to about the same place as before:
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1516/Through%20Marin%202.vbm
I can't believe how the little things add up... I redid some places where I could adjust my position better while charging the boots. The new version is 417 frames (7 seconds) faster.
The part with Tarin is entertaining :) I am still in dashing state when talking to Tarin, so Link has his sword out while watching Tarin run around (You'll notice I cut a patch of grass when turning to watch him automatically). Also note that I am still running in the same direction after Tarin leaves, so I dash "backwards" into the tree to knock the honeycomb down.
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Do you mean the angler's key, or the face key?
I tested and your up/left way is faster by maybe 200 frames. I also made the Tarin part and the part up to animal village more entertaining... I'll post a WIP once I get a bit more done.
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JXQ wrote:
I've never succeeded at 3 items grabbed at once, but a spring + key is possible.
Nearly any two "solid" items can be picked up at the same time. Shell+key, p-switch+spring, two baby yoshis, etc. are all possible, along with other combinations.
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Tompa wrote:
Oh, have forgot that you are using Save&Quit warps. Aren't there a lot of places where you could have saved time that way?
S&Q warps you to the outside of the cave or room you last exited.In most cases, this is impractical, either taking me back too far or putting me in a place I don't want to be.
Tompa wrote:
Your progress looks fine. But is it really faster to go right instead of left when you shall go and get the honey? Seams longer to me...
Going right allows me to dash in better places; screen directions right/up/up/left/up are convenient for some careful dashing. But I still don't see what you mean by "going left"...
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This is a rather minor update, but I have just collected Marin and am now on my way to the walrus:
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1513/Through%20Marin.vbm
It's a pretty long addition, but there isn't much action except for getting the Ocarina and madly dashing everywhere :) A good shortcut was to Save and Quit warp back to town once I got Marin with me; I'm pretty sure nothing is lost by doing so.
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I truly understand if everybody wants to see a run without a warping glitch. I can see that warping to the final boss area is a big let-down for Tompa and others. The only doubt in my mind is that a TAS should aim to complete the game as fast as possible. Not using the gltich certainly improves the run's entertainment, but is it worth the tradeoff in time? This is why I am inclined to want two runs, a gltichy run, and a 100% run.
Basically, I want to understand more about how everybody feels about this warping route. For now, I'm continuing work on the TAS according to the original plan, as I think that would be the best choice at present.
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On this subject, I remember a game on the computer where you gould solve puzzles like kinetic energy/potential energy, lights and circuits, etc. You would pick up parts of a car in this warehouse and eventually build the car to race against the antagonist in the game. Stuff like a square body vs. a fiberglass body, and other things like paint and decals. Anybody know the name of it?
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So maybe the warping run can be set aside for a later time. But if I were to work on this warping run, I certainly would come back to finish the non-warping run. Although that does create complications as to which movie would be accepted and if it would obsolete the other...
I think the point of this site is to complete games as fast as possible. This glitch certainly completes the game much faster than intended; yet, there's already one of these runs on the site. On the other hand, this run already uses glitches to complete the game quickly. So are you suggesting that just a "non-warping" requirement be placed on this run? I think it would help to know what criteria would be acceptable and entertaining in accords with the purpose of this site.
Edit: But, if it really detracts from the entertainment to warp, I can see where you, Tompa, and others are coming from.
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I also found Graveworm's glitch just last night; I ran straight out of the dungeon, jumped into the water in the next screen, and performed the glitch from my "respawn" point.
I played around with the final boss, but remember that you don't need the rod; you can just spinslash him in that form (as exhibited by the glitched black and white run).
All this opens up a new realm of possibility... I wasn't able to test what happens if you kill the final boss, unfortunately (only 9 arrows). The big question is: Should I glitch my way through the rest of the game? If so, I will need to find the closest arrow refill point so I can have enough arrows.
The way I see it, there should be 2 runs; one using this glitchy route, and one 100% route.
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Yeah, the three directions I've found are diagonally up/left, up/right, and down/right, achieved by pressing left/right/down, up/down, and up/down/left, respectively.
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Third dungeon done:
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1466/Testrun3.vbm
I found out that pressing up+down+left will cause link to move diagonally right and down. I picked up a Piece of Power, too (I set that up previously), so that helped. I took damage in a few places where avoiding it would have been slower (as far as I could tell). All these l/r/u/d glitches are crazy, I tell you...
I'm really getting the hang of using Link's sword to its fullest potential. Watch the latest progress, I think you'll see what I mean :)
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Well, both of those are rather minor improvements. The thought of redoing dungeon 2 for maybe 20-30 frames... I'd rather not. But thanks for all he comments... they're really helping me to become a better TASer. At this point, I am finished up through Richard and the leaves:
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1447/Testrun3.vbm
A few notes about the current progress:
a) I discovered a few more up/down and left/right effects. U/D while holding a shop item puts Link into "diving" animation. L/R and other combinations do wierd things with arrows... One combination shoots very fast "arrows" diagonally up and right, another shoots fast "arrows" diagonally up and left. Look at the part where I get the ball/chain trooper's leaf for an example.
b) Current progress is 978 frames (~16 seconds) faster than the previous version. I suspect that all the diagonal jumps (instead of diagonal walks) are beginning to add up. Also some faster strategies in collecting the leaves.
