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amaurea wrote:
I agree with some of what you say: It would be more satisfying not to have the GT code as a prerequisite, and I think a non-GT version of this TAS would be very interesting to see. I definitely think such a TAS should be made.
Someone would have to find out how quickly you can get through Maridia to the Plasma beam with X-ray and no gravity suit. If it can be done somewhat quickly I think such a run might have some merit (though I still think it would be mostly uninteresting), but if it takes a long time then maybe not so much. EDIT: Also that would probably be a no ACE run because of all the extra time that would have to be spent collecting ammo otherwise.
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Well if anyone (amaurea, total or whoever) would want to do that and use this run as a starting point to reach the arbitrary execution stage and then doing something interesting I'd certainly be all for it but it's well beyond my own personal capabilities.
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boct1584 wrote:
As far as Plasma Beam before Draygon, I thought Kejardon said back when he was first testing the OOB glitch/X-Ray Climbing that the Plasma Beam doesn't spawn until Draygon is dead. Am I misremembering?
No, it's there. I think that the items in WS are the only ones are despawned until an even has happened.
ALAKTORN wrote:
if the run is possible even without the use of the code, why even use it in the first place?
Basically because I was more interested in this than the alternative, and I don't think I would have had the motivation to do the non GT-Code version of this run. I knew there was a good chance it wouldn't be published and I understand the reasoning behind that but I still wanted to make it.
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Derakon wrote:
To trigger the glitch, you need to have both Spazer and Plasma beams. You also need to have a large number of super missiles and a certain (lesser) number of power bombs. These are all easily obtainable without using the GT Code; the problem is that then you have a run that doesn't dive into the hardest section of the game with nowhere near enough equipment and yet somehow survives anyway. In fact, you wouldn't even see Lower Norfair (where the GT Code is performed) at all! Instead the game would be played normally up through Draygon (the giant shrimp boss in the underwater area), the Plasma beam would be acquired, and then the glitch would be performed. Well, maybe you can X-ray climb to get the Plasma beam early, but then you're probably talking about doing a Gravity Suit-less underwater section to get there without killing Draygon, which is going to be awfully slow (Samus' movement speed is drastically limited when underwater without the Gravity Suit). And you'd also have a lengthy segment of doing the X-Ray Climb glitch as currently demonstrated in the published any% run. It's interesting from a high-level view but tedious to actually watch.
I think the fastest non GT-code route would be something like this run up to the point of PB's (but getting Charge beam and skipping the R-tank), and then go X-ray -> Spazer -> Ice -> bunch of x-raying to get to Plasma beam -> bunch of Space/Time abuse to quickly reach the room to the right of Samus ship and trigger the escape sequence. I imagine it would be a couple of minutes faster than the current X-ray run (the 4-5 minutes I mentioned earlier in the thread was a mistake). I doubt that triggering the ending directly could be made faster than that without the GT code unless another method was found to do it without all the extra ammo.
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Radiant wrote:
Super metroid already has seven branches on the site, which is more than any other game on the site. I find it rather dubious to make an eighth branch.
I can agree with that but I think if the number of movies are to be considered runs like the two 14% ones should probably be the first ones out. Even though I like them both a lot.
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The current any% run (x-ray glitch run) completes the game with 6 items for a 6% item collecton percentage at the end. As far as anyone knows that is the fewest items you can finish the game with, thereby making it a low% run.
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mklip2001 wrote:
I'm giving this a Yes vote. I don't have any suggestions, though, about what happens to the current any% run if this is published. I recommend keeping that run and this run published as separate categories, but I could see the case for obsoletion as well.
Well keeping it as a "no arbitrary code execution any%" would seem a bit silly since it's still plenty glitched enough, and also it could still be beaten by ~4-5 minutes without any arbitrary code execution with the help of Space/Time beam. But I think its category could be changed to low% and be kept as that, because it does collect the fewest items possible to complete the game.
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hero of the day wrote:
Great job guys!! It is cool to see the game pushed to it's theoretical limit. It will be interesting to see how this one gets judged, and whether it replaces the old x-ray glitch run. Yes vote here. Kudos for saving the animals too!
Well it certainly obsoletes the x-ray run as an any% run, but I think the X-ray run could be kept because it's still the true low% run for Super Metroid. And it should probably be prioritized over the two 14% runs if it's a question of too many categories, don't know how TASvideos policy about that looks nowadays though.
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Patashu wrote:
Submission soon? :D
Later today probably!
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It was at 40430 when I uploaded it. Thanks for the great work total!
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Think I got it now. Don't know if TASvideos will actually accept it but it should be ready to be submitted once the ending has been triggered. I think amaurea and total should be co authors for developing and executing the method to get control over the game and triggering the ending considering how big of a part it is to the run.
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Eye: I think the waver is too far away to make it worth it, and either way because energy is consumed so much faster in the lava I'd need something like 25-30 energy to avoid one more pause screen in that room. Thanks for the RAM watches total!
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Ok, I'll try to find the quickest way to get a properly charged beam to the correct position tomorrow. BTW does the Y position have to be exact as well or is it just the X position? Thanks for all the encodes EEssentia! EDIT: I think the PB thing only happens if you have them selected, and probably has something to do with the PB combos.
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Ok, I reached the point where the ending should be triggered now, although I'm unsure if everything is set up properly because I was unable to get the correct memory address values to check (must have had some setting wrong when putting them in). I reached the same X and Y positions as total did in his test when I release the charged beam (though maybe a frame early or a frame late, I don't know), but I'm facing the other direction (don't know if this makes a difference), and instead of using X-ray I used the cooldown from one of the PB's to start charging the beam which again I'm not sure if it's allowed or not. Someone with more knowledge will have to look to see if something has to be set up differently, otherwise I think I'm done.
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The PB combos take 2 seconds to charge so they wouldn't be able to speed things up that much even without the pause screens. Also you do get X-ray after the GT code, but the item selection graphics don't update so you won't actually see them, but they can still be selected. EDIT: Up to GT again. It turned out to be about 30 seconds faster in realtime to skip Kraid in favor of the pause abuse. From the lava dive and forward it looks like a mess because of the constant pausing, but at least I got to do some slightly more interesting drop farming in a few spots. Also apparently If you unpause mid jump you lose all speed (though you keep momentum), but if you are in ball form you keep it. This made me lose a little bit of time in two spots, but nothing major.
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Ah, ok. Thanks!
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Hmm, I don't get any values when I load that watch, I just get a "#syntax (illchar)" next to the watch name. Anyway there's still some way to go before I reach that point in the run, I'm just entering norfair.
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Ok, then I'm thinking that it would probably be fastest to use the time it takes to reach that position to use up 3-4 of the PB's so preferably only 1 has to be used each time in GT's room as that would save a lot time on lag and not having to wait to escape GT's room. As long as it's possible to jump through the room with Spring Ball without getting stuck. Do you have a RAM watch saved for lsnes btw?
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It's about 15 energy per second, but yes the first E-tank is still very much worth it, though there is no one close enough for a second to be as well.
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Nice! That's pretty quick still even though the extra supers have to be collected, and it should be improvable by a decent amount as well. Also, is the only goal in the room after GT to reach a certain position, or does something else have to be done as well?
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I think it would have been slower ingame because it would have made the pipe bug drops take longer because you'd only get health drops from the first round. I would have avoided using it either way though, seems like a pretty sensible speed/entertainment tradeoff.
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If you keep pausing on the first frame possible all the time Samus will survive with 0 HP, and can run through heated areas/damage boost with no health. Though you still can't do something like walljump on spikes because you'll still get the "taking damage" animation. EDIT: Also the game will be paused for 110 frames and move forward ~60-61 frames between every pause, so it's very slow. I think in this run health should last till about the pre lava dive room before the pause abuse would start to take place.
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Haha, that's true, I hadn't thought of that :P It should probably be left as is though to get a more honest representation of the final time in comparison to other runs (like the current glitch run), even though the death trick (if faster) will already mess with that a bit. If there's one "extra" thing that should be done I think it would be to set the flag to save the animals. Anyway there's no rush, I'll probably be working on the death trick version up to GT for more than a week as I'll have less free time going forward and there's a decent amount of stuff to test to optimize health and ammo management up to Norfair.
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I think 00:02 would be the limit because the earliest you could really start to abuse it would be in Old Mother Brain Room which is reached at about 2 minutes. Maybe 00:03 actually because you need to have health to survive on the elevators so every ride would add a significant chunk of time. Suffice it to say though, I'm not touching that :P
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Actually interestingly enough the addresses that keep track of the minute, second and frame counter for the ingame clock freezes once Samus health reaches 0 as long as you keep pausing (and ticks up by 1 when she dies), so the game would be likely to show an incorrect ingame clock at the end of the game, and would probably bring the run to 00:05 if the ending can be triggered somewhat quickly. I'm kind of hoping it will turn out slower though just because of how terrible it will look.
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