Joined: 10/11/2009
Posts: 52
Location: Sydney, Australia
Also something i'm curious about, after this any% run is done, is anything going to be done to get the best time when all wisps are unlocked for the first 3 zones? Because i'm curious to see how good things can get with each of these levels.
Joined: 10/11/2009
Posts: 52
Location: Sydney, Australia
VanillaCoke wrote:
That's awesome to know [about the whale]. I knew there had to be something, but I didn't know what exactly.
Yeah, it's a similar thing to one used in Mirage Road in Sonic Rush. You should be able to sub 60 seconds :P
VanillaCoke wrote:
If nitsuja revises the script to work for colours, I'm most likely going to start the run over. It shouldn't take nearly as long to reach the point I'm at since I'll have my WIP as a loose-guide for each level. I can improve on Globotron too :D.
How the heck do you plan on improving Globotron? It seems perfectly timed to me.
VanillaCoke wrote:
And I didn't know you were the one who made those maps o.o That was the site I've been using for maps, but I had to combine two pics per stage a week or so ago. Now they're all combined :D.
Yep, that website is mine :P
As i don't have my laptop on me, i wasn't able to combine them, so i had to wait for a friend to do it for me. I still have to work on getting relevant data so script can be made to add objects, and later on rings.
Joined: 10/11/2009
Posts: 52
Location: Sydney, Australia
VanillaCoke wrote:
After hitting one of the pads, for some duration (not sure of the exact time frame) Sonic is able to carry over his current speed into the air by holding backwards and then jumping. This can be used in real-time and is not a TAS-only technique (Go get'em Cruizer :D).
I know about this, it's just difficult to find proper places to use it.
nitsuja wrote:
but I'm not familiar enough with the game to suggest route changes or new strategies that you're not already doing near the end of what you had recorded.
If it is any help at all, there are preliminary maps i have put together. I'm still working on objects for now, so sooner or later they'll be finished.
I ended up watching the new WIP, and holy crap that was fun to watch. I am very impressed :P SM2 was particularly entertaining, I saw my exact route being used, but perfectly. Brilliant. Captain Jelly was very impressive, i can see you have no need for wisps, yet :P
SC1 was pretty. I was confused when you went for the rocket at the start, but later on, i could see why. No lazer :P
Also just to save you some extra time in testing, the whale at the end of SC2 can be skipped. You just need to boost right the earliest you can without hitting that wall. From there, it's just simple jumping and boosting. I can't wait to see sub 1-minute :P
Joined: 10/11/2009
Posts: 52
Location: Sydney, Australia
VanillaCoke wrote:
Update: 1
Finished with a time of 1:16:87 which is 25.48 faster than the current human wr by none other than Cruizer :D.
Well actually ,i have 1'38"69 now, and there are people on the online leadboards ahead of me, including a reputable TAer called NG3661. He has 1'32, so i still have a way to go :P.
VanillaCoke wrote:
1/18/11
Running out of ideas to make Captain Jelly fight entertaining during the waiting time. So I decided to watch some other TASes for generic ideas to copy, but nothing really applies. I'm going to watch some Sonic TASes and call it a night (well, morning) and that'll be that.
The rapid stomping would be awesome if you could :P
Joined: 10/11/2009
Posts: 52
Location: Sydney, Australia
VanillaCoke wrote:
1. I was under the impression that full game TASes go for faster real-time, rather than game time. I'll definitely take this under consideration.
2. It's possible, but the zip-line doesn't move as fast when it's not reached with homing attack. Boost would make it worth it by speeding up the zipline, but boost would also make me skip the ziplines entirely xD.
Thank you very much for watching it! Just one question: Did it sync correctly during the first or second playing of the movie?
I didn't work on the run at all yesterday due to having a scare with cutting my balls and it wouldn't stop bleeding. No joke, took like 2 hours to make it stop O.O
I'm trying to do right by TAS standards and make this as optimized as I possibly can, and hopefully my work gets accepted when I publish it. Even after seeing my movie played over a hundred times it's still entertaining to me. If it's not an entertaining run to me, why would other people find it entertaining.
I'll edit this later and make it more a clearer response. I'm in a hurry atm xD.
1. I asked someone who has been involved with Sonic TASes, so either i've been misinformed/misunderstood, or they told me the wrong thing. But yeah, another place i get a lag is using Void towards the end of SM2, and absorbing all the enemies/growing in size. It is a significant lag.
2. Yeah, you'd be taking the lower route and using an incline to jump :P
And the movie synced each time i viewed it (twice). Hope you can do well with the rest of the TAS :P
Joined: 10/11/2009
Posts: 52
Location: Sydney, Australia
Well i just got around to watching it, and i'm very impressed by it. I forgot you don't have Boost in TR1 and Burst in TR, so beating SkyL's time by a second -without- boost is very impressive.
Just a few questions however:
You're most likely going to encounter tons of Lag frames when you come to Void and Asteroid Coaster. That and Sonic TASes normally go for fastest in game time. So (somewhat rhetorically) is the loss of 6-7 milliseconds really worth 10 frames?
Another question, at around the 3500th frame, you are sprung up through the trick rings, and you take that zip-line. After you jump from it, is it possible to bounce off the enemies to catch the next zip-line? Or do you have to actually homing attack to be able to catch it?
Also Damn at Globotron. That shit just isn't possible in real time. And that is why I love TASes. And smart move at ~15800; Taking damage from that Orbinaut. That and every single Burst move you did, they looked very well constructed.
Joined: 10/11/2009
Posts: 52
Location: Sydney, Australia
VanillaCoke wrote:
If I can ask a question that I can't seem to find answered anywhere. Are the side-missons even necessary outside of gallery completion? It's been almost two months since I played it on the DS and I don't remember playing them during my first playthrough until I finished the game.
Edit
Also, thanks for your help :D. If it weren't for you and Sonikkustar in the Sonic Rush [Adventure] threads, my run so far would be horrible xD.
Actually, you would only use them for the 100% status, which involves getting all red rings. It's not that hard to get them done in one run. Not to mention you get infinite boost with it :P
Also beating SkyL in a level by a mere second isn't good enough. Knowing him, he could take it back in a matter of hours. (Personally i'm waiting for my Sweet Mountain 2 time to be beaten >_>). Then you have the Japanese to worry about :P
Also you're welcome. I enjoy being able to help where possible. The only thing i'm good for would be spotting better routes and possible mistakes. Except in the Sonic Rush case, that speed glitch was fucking intense @.@.
EDIT: 12 seconds in Globotron? You mind showing me or something? Cause that seems a bit far fetched. @.@
Joined: 10/11/2009
Posts: 52
Location: Sydney, Australia
VanillaCoke wrote:
I've made a lot of progress actually :D. I'm in the process of fixing desyncs in Sweet Mountain 1 due to a 96 total frame optimization due to a "new" trick.
The trick was found on gamefaqs (which was available before I even started my TAS, now I know how important research is) saves a lot of time in my run. After hitting the wisp container at the end of a level, there is a 3 frame window right before the fade out to pause and restart the level but still clear it. This is helpful for three different reasons:
- It clears your ring count and that eliminates the need to find an enemy or spike to hit to avoid the special stage prompt
- It's 4 frames faster in getting to the results screen than normal
- Finishes with no wisps or rings collected, which avoids attaining illustrations
It doesn't work on TR1 due to there being a giant ring at the end of the level rather than a wisp container. It also doesn't work on bosses :(
It works in missions too:
Link to video
Also just to note, if you're not beating these times, then you're not doing a good enough job :P
Joined: 10/11/2009
Posts: 52
Location: Sydney, Australia
The game engine is still the same really, they removed tricks and added the white wisps you see. Also mid-air boosting, which we havent seen since Rush's E3 demo.
Joined: 10/11/2009
Posts: 52
Location: Sydney, Australia
Long time no activity, heh. I guess that's what we get for relying on one person to do all the work :P
Anyway, i asked one of the TSC members told me what his strategy was for getting a high chart time:
13:49 <Cruizer> SDM, just a question involving rush
13:49 <Cruizer> is there a special method in Leaf Storm Boss?
13:49 <Cruizer> or is it just retry until you get it>
13:49 <SDM> no, but if he drops a wheelie at 5 to go
13:49 <SDM> you want to keep that run
13:50 <SDM> otherwise
13:50 <SDM> throw it out and start over
13:50 <Cruizer> so wait, you get all the first 5 hits in first?
13:50 <SDM> for some reason
13:50 <SDM> no
13:50 <Cruizer> er
13:50 <Cruizer> 3*
13:50 <SDM> for some reason
13:50 <SDM> in runs where he does a wheelie
13:50 <SDM> early on
13:51 <SDM> his late game sequences are either wuick or nonexistant
13:51 <Cruizer> alright then
If this doesn't help with the TASing, then i'd suggest just doing something that looks good and moving on.
Joined: 10/11/2009
Posts: 52
Location: Sydney, Australia
Paused wrote:
nitsuja wrote:
Screw the boss manipulation.
This.
Really, if you are struggling to get a good boss manipulation time, trade it off for something good to watch, like having Sonic bounce off the rolling capsule. Bosses in Rush are extremely based on luck and if you can't manipulate it, oh well. In any case, i'm just hanging on edge to see what remains for the other levels.
Joined: 10/11/2009
Posts: 52
Location: Sydney, Australia
Well I think the Adventure tours 100%'d would make it more interesting as some missions require certain targets to be achived (like getting as close as possible to 130 metres in Ski Jumping LH). This would also mean getting all Gallery Items and Gold Staring each mission. If i weren't starting my studies at University so soon, I would've taken this up Full Time as I've held Top 16 positions in the online leaderboards and held top spot in an event, which now is still in 5th place. But for now I'm on the sidelines ready to give help to anyone who needs it.
Joined: 10/11/2009
Posts: 52
Location: Sydney, Australia
nitsuja wrote:
It's still not good enough, though. And one of the times on TSC, not even the fastest one, claims to have been gotten with 1+1+3. And now that I think of it, maybe that 1+1+4 I saw was really a 1+1+4+2 or something equally bad, since I think whenever I change the second set from 2 to 1, the boss tacks on an extra set of rolls to compensate.
Well perhaps you could try 1+2+2 by rolling the last set over to the next one?
Joined: 10/11/2009
Posts: 52
Location: Sydney, Australia
nitsuja wrote:
Cruizer wrote:
Have there been any new developments with the Leaf Storm Boss? (I would love to see what you do while you wait for an attack opportunity too x3)
Well, I'm still trying to figure out how to get anywhere near 1:43:72 (the current record here). It might actually be impossible to even get below 1:50:00 without intentionally dying some number of times in order to manipulate luck, and I'm not sure what to do if that's the case.
Well if SDM/mike89 and the rest all get those times, it has to be possible as they are all very trustworthy. Maybe it has something to do with Story Mode vs. Time Attack Mode?
nitsuja wrote:
I've found that the number of time-wasting rolls the boss is about to do gets stored at address 0x20902E8, and that the boss can sometimes "change its mind" about how many rolls to do depending on where you are standing relative to the position the boss last attacked at and how close that is to either edge. (And a value that might be related to which random sequence the boss is currently following is stored at 0x20902DA.) In order to get a good enough time it seems necessary to manipulate the boss to but the best patterns I've ever seen so far are 1+2+3 and 1+1+4. Anyway it seems like it do no more than 5 rolls in total (and preferably fewer) will take some serious analysis of the code to be certain, and... I haven't started doing that yet.
Would that "mind change" be stored somewhere else? And if i recall correctly, the last set of rolling is faster than the previous ones. So i think the 1+1+4 is better.
Joined: 10/11/2009
Posts: 52
Location: Sydney, Australia
Paused wrote:
I am going to be a bastard and say, that unlike the previous Rush game I would love a 100% run more.
Ignoring that, looking forward to seeing more of this game. It is one of my favorites.
I'd only back a 100% run just to see Deep Core TASed. Even so, to even to an any% run you would need to trade off fast times to get S ranks. The S ranks ensure 4 material items which are used to make the seacrafts. Some levels may have to be played again (possibly Plant Kingom) in order to make the Deep Tyhpoon submarine later on in the game. In fact, the first emerald race against Johnny you must play in order to get to Coral Cave (Zone 3).
Joined: 10/11/2009
Posts: 52
Location: Sydney, Australia
nitsuja wrote:
If Sonic lands at the exact point where a somewhat-steep downhill slope meets flat ground, he'll gain a good amount of speed, and if he jumps off he'll gain even more speed and (if he was traveling fast enough and the slope is steep enough but not too steep) he'll immediately land on the slope again. So he can repeatedly jump and land all the way down the slope, gaining speed each time. Normally each speed gain only lasts for 1 frame, but by holding backwards the whole time they stay in effect and stack together.
Oh I see now. Thanks for clearing that bit up for me.
nitsuja wrote:
What I'm calling speed is perhaps more accurately called "potential horizontal velocity" and it takes effect whenever Sonic's feet are on the ground. So when it wraps around, Sonic suddenly shoots backwards at top speed. It might be possible to take advantage of this by doing the trick on a slope that's going the wrong way and then overflowing the speed to switch directions.
So the Max speed will be 32767 no matter what way Sonic is facing, since if you wrap the speed more it'll approach 0 either direction. That sound right?
Joined: 10/11/2009
Posts: 52
Location: Sydney, Australia
nitsuja wrote:
Cruizer wrote:
Daaaamn...
You totally blitzed Leaf Storm 2. I can't find -any- faults with it at all....with either of them :x
Actually that Leaf Storm 2 was pretty sloppy. I cut another 2 seconds off of it with a second pass of optimization. Then I found a ridiculous speed trick that saves about 8 more seconds (so act 2 is down to 0:39:87 now and I think it can go lower).
EDIT: Here is what that act looks like now if you don't mind being spoiled about it. Keep in mind that the second half is not optimized and that you might find it confusing. This time I've hit the real speed limit: there is one point where Sonic's speed would have wrapped around (32767 to -32768) if I had tried to go any faster
...how the? How did you get that damn fast?! Also what happens if the speed wraps around to -32768?
With the Leaf Storm Boss, in fact with nearly all the bosses, luck is a huge factor. Something has to be determining what moves it makes. Wish i could help that in some way but i have no clue how to search memory for that stuff :/
Joined: 10/11/2009
Posts: 52
Location: Sydney, Australia
N. Harmonik wrote:
nitsuja wrote:
N. Harmonik wrote:
I don't suppose you're gonna collect all of the Emeralds (which would mean playing as Blaze as well) and defeat the true final bosses?
I guess I'm not that interested in getting all of the emeralds in a TAS, but I do think Blaze's playing style is different enough to be worth TASing somehow.
Note that, as Blaze, you get a Sol Emerald every time you beat a boss.
Now see if Sonic's routes pass right by a special stage handle (as seen -right- at the end of the first level, Sonic passes just over it) then a 100% TAS wouldn't be too much of a hassle. In fact the special stages aren't all that hard to perfect.