Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
I'm sceptical about a lot of the bugs that cause the rewriting of a large amount of memory values in general.
Does anyone remember the Sketch bug in Final Fantasy 6? It's conceivable that the results of that bug are accurate, as there are videos of it being done on a real console that confirm the effect's validity (or so I heard, I haven't actually searched for these myself).
However, there is another, related bug which involves attacking while an item is equipped as weapon. In Snes9x, the results of this bug are arbitrary in the sense that if you save a state right before the bug occurs and then load it after the bug occurred, the results may be different. I've even had the emulator crash. Granted, this was all quite some time ago, so it may have been fixed since then, but it points to either the emulator being inaccurate or the save states being incomplete.
Since I'm not a console hacker I really have no idea of what I'm talking about, but it seems to me that glitches that overwrite large amounts of data might need to be examined a little closer because of how drastic they are and how much of a difference minor emulation inaccuracies might cause.
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
I think I should chime in for a second just to say that I too think it's not a good idea for judges to be accepting their own movies.
This submission was clearly ambiguous. It had a very low amount of yes votes relative to other submissions (in my experience, it's only downright terrible movies that get a majority of no or meh votes), and the response of the community had been rather flimsy. There was a much higher chance than normal that this movie would have been rejected by an impartial judge. For adelikat to decide to accept and publish it himself means that he might have wanted to prevent that.
Judges should never have a say (other than through comments) about what happens to their submissions.
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Kuwaga wrote:
Because the old run is so outdated I'm for this one to obsolete the older. I just don't see much reason to keep the old version public. If somebody was interested in it for historical reasons, they could still find it in the obsoletion chain.
The question being posed here is if this run, being so different in concept than the old one, warrants being placed in a category of its own. If the answer is yes, there's no need for it to obsolete the old run (since it's in a different category). It's not necessarily a quality issue in the first place.
Joined: 11/22/2004
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Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
I must say I'm really sorry that you've decided to stop encoding. It's true that forum politics can totally ruin the fun, especially when you're trying to be constructive and help out. Good thing you're not leaving the site or IRC, though!
Joined: 11/22/2004
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Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
I'm not sure about this one. It looks sound but the run is also kind of boring. Maybe it's the game, though (which I haven't played). Everything happens kind of slowly, even on the overworld. Like when you beat a stage, first the next one is highlighted, then it turns red, then the path appears, then the enemies move, and then the music restarts... so I think to some degree this can be attributed to the game itself.
But it still bothers me that I didn't see anything surprising during this movie. It's too bad no interesting glitches or sequence breaks have been discovered yet.
Nevertheless, congrats on making the first NDS run.
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Warp wrote:
Omega wrote:
At this point, save manipulation is sufficient to split the Chrono Trigger any% run into two categories, but I don't think there's a reason for us to not make game-specific categories in the future. It's probably perfectly acceptable to say "this game can be completed through two completely distinct routes, one vastly slower than the other, both of which are enjoyable to watch in their own rights, so let's allow people to keep both runs up-to-date".
As long as we remember that this concept cannot be applied to all games which contain glitches.
There are some games where separating "heavy glitch abuse" and "no heavy glitch abuse" versions (whatever their game-specific definition might be) makes sense and produces two enjoyable movies. However, there are many games where a less-glitched version does not contribute anything significant.
There are also some games where a less-glitched version might in theory be interesting, but where defining exactly which glitches are allowed and which aren't is very arbitrary and hard to justify in a logical manner. (As I commented earlier, trying to make a "no glitches" version of many games can become very difficult because it's really hard to define what constitutes a glitch and what doesn't.)
Yeah, I absolutely agree with you. That's why I think we should decide on these things on a per game basis. There's no need to be overly broad in deciding this.
In fact, it would be very strange and backwards to say "here's a category, now go make some movies that fit in it". So I would support simply doing the same as what we did with Metroid. The criteria used is simply that both the long and short routes are interesting in their own rights.
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Sir VG wrote:
So I guess if anybody has any suggestions on how to do the 6 style sheets thing w/o using Javascript, then I'm all ears. I've tried one possibility (the <noscript> code), which should default the standard script if Javascript is disabled. Only on the index page of both IMAMYTH Computers and IMAMYTH Colosseum. I'm gonna try installing Noscript myself and try it out.
Make the stylesheet selector post to a PHP script (or some other script) that sets a cookie. Then add a check in the header of the page that prints a different stylesheet depending on the value of the cookie you set before.
EDIT: untested and off the top of my head so it's probably buggy, but it should be something like this:
EDIT 2: and if you're really fancy, you can make sure that people who have JavaScript turned on don't see a refresh.
In all honesty, I don't think the people who have JavaScript turned off are too numerous. It's mostly people who don't want to be bugged by sites that abuse the technology. Though there are no definitive numbers, I think they're far outnumbered by people who either don't know they can even turn it off as well as those who don't want to miss interactive features that so many sites today offer. This is corroborated by the fact many sites, even really large and important ones, sometimes blatantly lack support for people who have it turned off.
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
zdude255 wrote:
People like both runs for different reasons and that's ultimately why I think there should be two categories. At this point I think save manipulation is what sets them apart, although I'm not sure whether item duplication and other stuff is a part of this.
At this point, save manipulation is sufficient to split the Chrono Trigger any% run into two categories, but I don't think there's a reason for us to not make game-specific categories in the future. It's probably perfectly acceptable to say "this game can be completed through two completely distinct routes, one vastly slower than the other, both of which are enjoyable to watch in their own rights, so let's allow people to keep both runs up-to-date".
Joined: 11/22/2004
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Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
By the way, one thing that had me wondering was why you used the US version of the ROM. You're Japanese, so why not use the JP version? Do the glitches work differently in that version?
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Wow, this is absolutely amazing. I haven't seen the run since I don't have the emulator installed right now but I think this is probably the largest improvement any movie has ever brought.
Question, though (and I'm not sure if this has been discussed before): will this obsolete the previous run? Because the two are so markedly different I think it might be a better idea to keep both in separate categories.
Warp wrote:
But that's precisely what makes those "rules" completely arbitrary. It's impossible (or at the very least very difficult) to come up with a generic logical rule which would forbid using those precise glitches but not others.
I see that the discussion on this subject is already ongoing.
What you say is true, but is it really necessary to try and make a generalistic rule for this? You could see this as being a separate tier. Just like good/bad endings, except game-specific. There's probably enough interest to keep, maintain and improve both tiers of this run, so why not?
EDIT: just saw the run on YouTube. Man, I can't get over how brilliant this run is. This is really one of the most interesting runs I've ever seen.
There are so many things that actually had me laughing. Normally when something unexpected occurs I just smile, but the things that happen in this run are sometimes just plain bizarre. Avoiding open time gates, escaping somehow from the trial, Magus somehow being left behind when running from the chancellor, then magically reappearing in the future anyhow, poor Robo being left behind after his friends beat him up...
I'm gonna reinstall the emulator now just so I can play the game during this run's various stages of glitchiness.
THANK YOU for this amazing run.
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Warp wrote:
This got me thinking: If we wanted to create a top 10 (or 20 or whatever) list of the most representative TASes currently published, what would it be?
Depends on whether you're looking to show the best TAS videos (for any reason; technical, aesthetic, et cetera) or want to make a list of videos that are most likely the most enjoyable for the average person. In the latter case, you might want to give precedence to more well-known games and avoid using multiple games from the same series.
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
errror1 wrote:
It's hard to take this list seriously when it doesn't have Mega Man 2 on it.
Seriously Contra, Sonic Advance 2, and Punch-Out?? and yet no strider 2
Well, to be fair, it already contained two Mega Man runs. He probably wanted an as generic list as possible. I think Contra and Punch-Out are public favorites in the nailbiter category. He probably picked the Sonic Advance 2 run because it's the fastest of all Sonic games even though it's (probably) not the biggest hit.
Joined: 11/22/2004
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That's a pretty good article. It does a good job of explaining the point behind the videos. It's also refreshing to see a comment topic about TAS movies on an unrelated site without all the drama and accusations of cheating and the like.
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Warp wrote:
Just have a RNG stream for some purpose (eg. deciding critical hits), which you seed at the beginning of the game (if the system doesn't have a clock which can be used to randomly seed it, then seed it from user input, eg. the first 20 key presses and their timing or whatever), and then just use that RNG stream for that purpose from that point forward.
In Final Fantasy 3j, this is sort of how the randomness works before a battle. As far as I'm aware, you can't manipulate your luck (e.g. critical hits, etc.) during a battle, but you can change the conditions before it begins. Since I couldn't figure out how to effectively do this without having to fight tens, if not hundreds of battles just to get past random encounters, I decided to quit trying.
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Oh cool, I didn't know we were doing these things. Is it possible to change my nick to Dada? "Omega" is kind of old, I'm no longer using the name anywhere, including #TASVideos IRC.
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Not very big. I don't even put them in a separate directory, actually. I think it's a good idea to try and do more with sites that let you view stuff online like YouTube. One of the things I've been meaning to look into is how easy it might be to automatically send a movie to the Internet Archive. There's no API so there's probably going to be some screen scraping involved, but if it works it could prove super useful since then we could basically let people view all videos inline on the site without having to lift a finger.
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Oh wow, it really does look like Dangerous Dave. It even has the jetpack and the strange, horizontal hallways connecting the levels. I'll be sure to check this out. Too bad it's Windows-only.
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
janus wrote:
- FF8. I would certainly take the challenge. I've played the game so many times! PLus, with luck maniuplation, it would be possible to draw a lot of magic at the time. I'm not too sure about cards... Anyway, as soon as Squall be get Aura casted on him, he's an unstoppable killing machine. I think I can kill Ultemecia in less than 5 minutes, and without any summons! I wish animations could be skipped...
If you are seriously considering this, you should hop over to the Speed Demos Archive forum to look for the guy who was trying this. Apparently he got really far and beat the game in a reasonable time, but his run was rejected because he lost one segment and couldn't get the experience points to match up exactly when he tried to rerecord it. (I hope I'm not wrong about that description of events. I thought it was extremely lame that his whole hours-long run got thrown in the bin for such a reason.)
You should be able to get a lot of tips from him if he's still around somewhere.
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Hey guys. I'm afraid I need your help! I've been trying to make a PAL disc out of an NTSC disc. I googled around a bit and found this and this. Apparently the PAL4U method is tried and true, but I haven't had much luck with it so far (ISO that got recognized as music CD and wouldn't run in ePSXe either).
The reason why I need the disc to be PAL is because my external TV capture card, which I use to hook my PSX up to my PC, only supports PAL games. NTSC games get visual distortions to the point where they're unplayable. And since I'm trying to play Final Fantasy 8 in Japanese, there's no alternative.
My question: has anyone had luck in converting NTSC PSX games to PAL? How should I go about this?
EDIT: maybe it's related to the fact I made a .ISO of the original. I patched it successfully with PAL4U but upon burning the game back to CD I had to manually add the block size and write mode. I settled for Mode 2 Form 1 and a block size of 2352. It could be that I just burned the disc wrongly, but since the patched ISO also doesn't work on ePSXe, I guess I did something wrong during the first step.
EDIT 2: apparently not many people are interested in this. :P That's not very surprising, though. I did manage to find a good method, and that's the palpar program that can be downloaded here. It gives you codes to use with a Gameshark or similar. The advantage is that you don't need to burn a patched copy of the game for it to work.
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Xkeeper wrote:
Often I will sit down, begin working on something, then find myself doing other things.
Sometimes I can manage to focus for an extended length of time (like I did last night for 6 hours, and managed some incredible progress). But most of the time I will constantly be shifting between twenty different things.
Anybody who has ever seen something like my current windows or tabs open can usually figure that out with ease... though trying to close things doesn't help (they tend to re-accumulate to that point though use).
(I've actually strongly suspected I have some form of ADD, as even during this post I was looking away to read something else several times... I just haven't acted upon my suspicions and getting an official mental health check is expensive well beyond my capabilities)
This is quite normal. Many people have this problem. However, it's likely that your problem is most apparent when you've only just begun working on something. Once you become more engaged with the task at hand, the contrary occurs: it becomes easy to forget everything else.
I wouldn't worry too much. The most important thing is to force yourself to begin working. If you can force your attention to your task for the first 5 minutes, that's plenty, since you can probably relax after that.
Joined: 11/22/2004
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Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Blublu wrote:
The <blink> tag was and is only ever used by idiots to annoy people anyways. And even then, very rarely. There is not a single legit use for the blink tag. So it's good if the browser just ignores it.
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Mitjitsu wrote:
As long as it's not uploaded in seperate segments.
I'm guessing you just mean to say that you prefer not having to watch multiple segments, rather than saying it's "not okay" otherwise.
In any case, I think we should upload our runs on services like YouTube because of their popularity. A lot more people will watch the runs on this site if they're just one click away. YouTube is just one of the possibilities. You might want to consider using a service that doesn't have an 11 minute limit.
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Bisqwit wrote:
Omega wrote:
You'd never complete such a run. You'd die of old age well before then. The problem is that when you use a rerecord by loading a save state, your mind must actually carry over (else you wouldn't know how to improve your future!) That means your brain would be kept in the same condition as the future, which in turn means it would age.
You do not need to use your brain for the memory. You can choose an auxiliary memory that is practically immortal, such as a piece of paper (or something more robust such as a stone plate). That way, you can carry your progress to your younger self without the person having to age a bit.
Still violates one of the most integral principles of tool-assisted speedrunning: the fact that the runner is on a higher plane above and strictly separated from the (game) environment. (Of course, the aging brain method does too.)
You'd need to be a god controlling a mere mortal for it to work.
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
You'd never complete such a run. You'd die of old age well before then. The problem is that when you use a rerecord by loading a save state, your mind must actually carry over (else you wouldn't know how to improve your future!) That means your brain would be kept in the same condition as the future, which in turn means it would age.
Unless you become a demi-god or specter or some other immortal entity, you wouldn't be able to achieve the emulation part of the equation!
