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Sir VG wrote:
Bloodpool Act II you stay on ground level instead of either getting on a high platform or glitch-jumping the wall. Did it not save you frames, or did it cause an issue with luck on Kasandora Act I?
I don't think the run would have sync'd after this trick was found. Your post about this trick came after they were ~3/4 done.
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laranja wrote:
trade-off means to show something funny while doing the run without wasting any time right?
No, that would simply be good TASing :)
trade-off implies that you are trading something - i.e. giving up speed in exchange for entertainment.
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Math Problem above my head:
Lets say you want 900 random samples, taken sequentially to have a rate of 80%, i.e. 1/5 comes out X, otherwise Y. Now, obviously, you could just assign a random number with a 1/5th probability. However, I vaguely remember from statistics class that you can readjust your probability function every time a new sample is produced, to adjust the probability that it actually will reach a near perfect 80% at the end of the 900 samples. In other words, as opposed to a uniform probability, you force it to use apriori information to determine the next probability.
I don't know know if that made sense.
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sgrunt wrote:
Were I a judge, I would be leaning towards acceptance for obsoletion in light of the above and the current tally... but I'm not, so that's more or less irrelevant.
Unfortunately, the current tally goes against the comments in the thread - a large percentage being "this is entertaining, but less so than the published." However, many of them still voted yes, to say "Publish both!"
The comment by pepness stated it really well: "How does a TAS that solely aims for entertainment get obsoleted?" Really, I don't think there is any precedent for that. See River City Ransom Play-around, or Super Mario Bros 3 play-around. To my knowledge, no play-around has ever been even contested.
So, it falls on adelikat to determine the precedent for decisions based purely on entertainment. Have fun with that one!
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The first two races were hellishly boring... however, they set up entertainment for the races that follow. Strong Yes vote!
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I personally think this movie is great, but I'm going to wait for a few more opinions to trickle in before judging.
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I voted no, because I enjoyed the other movie more. I actually stopped watching this movie half-way through, I got bored.
I don't find much interesting about a brain age run other than "Oh hey, it abuses the number recognition function" This, to me, is the same thing but longer.
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Warp wrote:
adelikat wrote:
When to end input often has no clear answer. Therefore we have always let the author make that decision for themselves.
Perhaps there should be a more unambiguous guideline. I have always liked the "no further input appended to the end of the movie can make the game end faster or slower (or cause the game to not end at all)" principle.
This rule still wouldn't have solved the one argument where game end became an issue, i.e. super mario bros. The big debate was on the final axe touching - a certain type of jump would allow you to end the input earlier, but touch the axe slower. This would have passed your rule, because once the jump was executed, you can't speed it up or slow it down, however, it still ended slower.
The resolution to this issue was that movie times were calculated from the first frame touching the axe. The point is, when there is a conflict, rules are made within the community of runners that everyone agrees on. Yes, it takes some debate, but that debate is healthy.
Additionally, if we set finite rules, we'd miss out on entertainment in the clever ways TASers figure out to end movies early, such as this, this, or this.
So yeah, Warp, you are constantly trying to restrict the rules down, so that every movie could be auto-judged by applying the set of rules like a computer algorithm. That isn't how this site operates, and misses the fundamental reason the rules are loosey-goosey. We are looking for the most entertaining movies; it is just the reality that the audience finds the fastest movie to generally be the most entertaining.
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Its sad, but it seems this crazy glitched run won't get much attention -
Also, level 2, it looks like you were supposed to rescue hostages, but left them all to die and glitched past them?
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Alright, this argument has gotten out of hand. I'd like to get some feedback on how everyone feels about this, because the submission thread has basically broken down into X2poet arguing everyone who disagrees. So, lets put this to a vote.
Continues in arcades ARE sufficiently different from continues on a console that it is worth reviewing. (Consoles punish you on death, Arcades look to gain money off your death, therefore, punishment is rarely severe, and may add a benefit (such as metal slug X).
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Sandbox gameplay world
scaring the player (think survival horror)
FMV
Co-op gameplay
That is all I can think of.
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Personman wrote:
However, there's a large segment of the community that thinks ending input 'early' (getting a worse in-game time for the sake of a better TAS time) is cheating or wrong or bad or something.
Uh, where is this large segment?
Personman wrote:
Right now the only thing keeping me from simply truncating Aglar's movie file and resubmitting this as an improvement is...
...the administrators and judges. That movie would be canceled immediately (under the 3 day limit) for copying someone's input. We have watchdogs here.
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They haven't been able to successfully add savestates yet, so robust rerecording is a far, far way off, unfortunately. I think we will see dolphin and pcsx2 well before nullDC.
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finalfighter wrote:
-
Guts:The amount of instructions is insufficient though a good object appears.
Can you explain why the 3 green flying heads that happen after the moving platforms don't provide sufficient instructions to overload?
I'm just curious, because the same enemy works in Wily 2
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Spider-Waffle wrote:
Really? I can't see any difference in the code. :\
the order of the for statement
I wrote it in a hurry as start, increment, finish, but it is supposed to be start, finish, increment
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Fixed my post.
Oops
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x=0;
StateVar = savestate.create();
savestate.save(StateVar);
inpt = {};
inpt['start'] = true;
while (x<400) do
x=x+1;
savestate.load(StateVar);
emu.frameadvance();
savestate.save(StateVar);
joypad.set(1,inpt);
for i=0,501,1 do
emu.frameadvance();
end;
print(x .. " " .. memory.readbyte(0x55));
end;
No guarantees this code works, but thats the psuedo code converted.
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IsraeliRD wrote:
The question for TASvideos is now this:
Can you exploit a bug in the game's cheat handling routines and have it accepted in a
TAS? Remember: an unbugged cheat code is NEVER used.
The problem I see isn't so much the rules, as the entertainment factor. These cheat codes are going to appear to the viewer to be the same as entering a normal cheat code. Therefore, it will make your character more powerful, without adding to the entertainment.
Generally speaking, we try and slate things against our character as much as possible, by selecting highest difficulty, using a code to make the game MORE difficult, and more. Then, the movie looks more impressive when the hero dances and prances through the game.
This is the real reason cheat codes aren't generally accepted.
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Warp wrote:
To give a picture of what I like, these are the better games I have played so far: Gears of War 1 and 2, Eternal Sonata, Star Ocean: The Last Hope, Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey, Fable 2, Infinite Undiscovery, Alan Wake. I also have FF XIII, but didn't like it too much (I think Square Enix has lost the ball years ago; I haven't liked any of their games in the past half decade).
I tried Lost Odyssey, just couldn't get into the characters. Blue Dragon is an interesting combination of Final Fantasy + Dragon Ball Z, but haven't gotten a chance to play through it.
Assasin's Creed is good, but long-winded speeches drive me insane.
Also, agreed, I haven't enjoyed a Final Fantasy since 10.
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X2poet wrote:
I hope that the emulator can be improved
The main dev for FBA told this site to go 'shove it', so I doubt we will see much improvement to FBA. Sorry.
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sgrunt wrote:
I think there could be either one or two new ranks - at 5000 if one and at 4000 and 8000 if two. Both would follow reasonable progressions:
250 -> 500 -> 1000 -> 2000 -> 5000
or
250 -> 500 -> 1000 -> 2000 -> 4000 -> 8000
The latter probably makes more sense, unless we adjusted "Expert player" to be at 2500 instead of 2000.
If there is only one new rank it could be as simple as "Master player".
If we do have an 8000-9000 point rank perhaps it could be "Ninja". That way, adelikat can once again have something to aspire to. *cough*
My name is DarkKobold, and I approve this message
Also, > 9000 should be a "Saiyan" Rank
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I'd suggest using a screen shot around 6:29-6:34, where he is punching under the lava.
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I still want a rank for > (8999 + 1) points.
3 guesses what it would be called.
Also, if we make a rank for > 6000, might as well just call it the "adelikats only club"
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SDR's run was much better, demonstrated far more glitches....
This run doesn't seem to add anything over that.
No vote, sorry. I'd like to see you retry MK3 for gameboy, and make it more entertaining.
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FractalFusion wrote:
Also, a disproportionate number of people voted yes on this one. Nostalgia?
I watched it from start to finish without the slightest inkling of boredom. Perhaps it is the fact that it is sufficiently different from a run-right for justice movie?
I'm not sure, but it wasn't nostalgia for me. Hope that helps with the decision.
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