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STJrInuyasha wrote:
That was before I checked the history of the Zanac runs on this site.
However, you can't say it doesn't seem the slightest bit odd that a video by the site owner (continues to) get by scot-free while this one gets slaughtered, hm?
Also, nice that you admitted to actually reading the 'circlejerk forum' you talked of. <3
Those posts were actually eaten by the forum; I quite liked them. I note that you haven't cleared up that misconception at your circlejerk. And, I don't think 'continuing in the same vein as 4 previously published runs' is 'getting by scott-free.' If people wanted the entirety of Zanac to be run, they certainly haven't said anything for 6 years. People did NOT like the cheat codes used in this run.
I went looking, out of curiosity :) I should note, we don't negotiate with terrorists, even crappy ones.
Also, Fox News has a position. You'd be perfect for it!
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STJrInuyasha wrote:
]
Also note how I never brought up adelikat whatsoever.
Not here, you didn't. ;)
... Ahem.
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rog wrote:
DarkKobold wrote:
STJrInuyasha wrote:
Well, how many is "too many", in your case? Personally, I didn't notice enough of people complaining about them for it to matter; and the movie still ended up with a 70%+ approval rating nevertheless.
70%+?
I see 63% Yes votes.
Factoring in the meh votes, it is indeed 70%.
According to Bisqwit's Confidence intervals, yes.
According to the word "approval," no.
Yes means "I approve of this movie"
Meh means "I don't care one way or another."
I tend to weight Meh's vs. No's. No is a serious "I did NOT like this movie."
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STJrInuyasha wrote:
Well, how many is "too many", in your case? Personally, I didn't notice enough of people complaining about them for it to matter; and the movie still ended up with a 70%+ approval rating nevertheless.
70%+?
I see 63% Yes votes. That is pretty bad. And before you say "Anything better than 50% should be published!" Every actual 'serious' submission gets > 60% Yes votes. Thus, we'd have to accept everything. Also, someone on IRC once put it into an equation, and found that there was a strong prediction value centered around 66%, iirc. In that case, I'd say the voting system is working quite nicely.
But, don't let that stop you from whining about it on your circlejerk forum.
Oh, and Zanac was accepted with a passcode an entire 3 years before adelikat became an admin. But, please, don't let the truth interfere with your whine session.
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adelikat wrote:
I agree too that 2-player is probably going to be the fastest combination, and I've considered doing a 2-player as well. Good luck with this. I have no idea either what it would obsolete. But if it is the fastest TAS for this game, it kind of is a no brainer publication one way or another.
I still think a 4-player run could be significantly faster than the published tas though.
I'd think it would obsolete the 1 player, just because the 4 player is such a unique TAS for the NES. I don't think any other 4 player NES game is worth a TAS.
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STJrInuyasha wrote:
Blah blah blah exact same complaining that Xkeeper did.
(And no, I am not a shill. I am not posting to defend him...)
Amazing how you've lurked for so MANY years, but have the exact same complaints that XKeeper did! It is almost coincidental to the point of.... stupidity. Really, Xkeeper, did you think you'd fool us? Also, try posting through another domain, at least. We can see IP addresses, genius.
I think this thread has gone on long enough.
EDIT: It appears that I was wrong, and thus this user was unbanned. It was apparent that the user was directly communicating with XKeeper in a different venue, and hence why they had identical gripes. Communicating with banned users is by no means grounds for a ban.
That said, I'd like to clarify a TASvideos position. Banned users are not allowed to post here. Their posts will be deleted, regardless of content. We do not want to encourage them to post in any way, shape, or form. We do not give site perma-bans lightly. Thus, all banned users will be dealt with heavily.
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Dada wrote:
DarkKobold wrote:
DootBeep is an alt of XKeeper, who many of you well know was banned by adelikat. The main reason behind XKeeper's ban was for his consistent negative attitude towards TASers, administrators, and anyone else who behaves in a way contrary to his expectations. Xkeeper is of the concept that if anyone does things in a way he disagrees with, then the proper course of action is to berate them.
I certainly don't disagree with banning people who deserve it, but I never really saw the point in deleting posts.
Did you miss this?
DarkKobold wrote:
adelikat told me personally he regrets deleting those posts.
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moozooh wrote:
DarkKobold wrote:
Warcraft needs to be judged, not on gameplay alone, but on its impact to the industry. Otherwise, a top whatever list is just going to be nostalgic crap mixed in with the current best of every game type.
While I do think it is a valid point, the list that goes by the amount of impact on the industry will be full of the "root" titles such as Pong, Pac-man, Space Invaders, Spacewar, Xevious, Astro Race, Interceptor, Defender, Breakout, Asteroids, Frogger, Tetris, and so on; almost all of them from the 70s and 80s. Have these games stood the test of time in their original form? Well, Tetris has, the others... probably less so.
I still love Frogger! And I have an original Asteroids Arcade machine. So yeah, those games are much better than Call of Warfare: Battlefield Duty 8.
However, I think it would be a misnomer to say that Frogger or Asteroids had a larger impact on the industry than later titles. Warcraft 1, World of Warcraft, Super Mario Bros, Halo 1, GTA, Madden Football, Final Fantasy 7, or numerous other titles.
Granted, I sorta realized with all these responses, it is my own personal bias; I love the history of video games, and find their evolution fascinating. Thus, "best" to me is weighted very highly by the impact they had on the gaming industry.
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Ilari wrote:
grassini wrote:
i also lurk SRK forums(for fighting games) and they make sure the first posts of the threads are filled with current info about the characters or games,so people don't have to search the whole thread for the current data on the game.is it possible for us to use that format also?
Well, then there are Game Resources pages that are suited for all sorts of information about games.
Unfortunately, those pages aren't updated that often (anybody with editor role or above can update those, as can those with player rank).
Pretty much this. I'd like to add that pretty much anyone can get editor rights just by asking. There are tons of other jobs for admins, moderators, judges, and publishers, that get filled first, so anyone willing to step forward, please do!
Also, for the really long threads, there are often other sites that have a better wealth of information available. Such as SM64.org, or Zelda Speed Runs.
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Warp wrote:
DarkKobold wrote:
(Heck, I think that is 90% of the reason he comes to the site)
*sigh*
Admins make belittling comments just because I like to express my opinion, and it's just supposed to be a "persecution complex". It's all in my head. Right.
I think an attitude revision would be in place. I'm entitled to express my opinions without having an admin belittling me because of that. If you don't value my opinion then just ignore it. Making a public jab at me is going too far.
How is that comment belittling? It is an observation that you appear more interested in the how a run applies to the rules than the actual content of the run. I fail to see the insult there. You do latch on to the threads that discuss rules. You do not tend to comment or ... hell, even watch runs, as far as I can tell. Observing that, and stating that observation is not an attack on your character.
If you honestly believe that comment is belittling, I feel sorry for you.
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Cardboard wrote:
YoungJ1997lol wrote:
I think Number one will be final fantasy 3
Dude, if this game makes number one, I've clearly misjudged Captain-no-Atari.
Really? It was not a massive jump from FF1 or FF2.
I had a weird thought driving home today - Which game would be better for a top list: Warcraft 1 or Warcraft 2?
As far as gameplay goes - obviously, Warcraft 2 wins. It took what Warcraft had done, and made it better. However, this is where movies are different - you can't do a sequel to Citzen Kane that is the exact same movie with just upgraded graphics, a few new characters, and other tweaks. A video game series, on the other hand, can and often does just that. Warcraft needs to be judged, not on gameplay alone, but on its impact to the industry. Otherwise, a top whatever list is just going to be nostalgic crap mixed in with the current best of every game type.
Anyway, I was curious on Cardboard's thoughts.
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Dwedit wrote:
I think people just don't like destructive criticism which uses lots of swear words. I saw dootbeep's posts. He was providing harsh and blunt criticism of the emulator's original feature where it refused to load files that did not exist in a database.
I'm not going to comment on your opinion of BizHawk or its devs. This isn't the place for that.
It isn't just about the criticism, it is about the fact that a banned user circumvented his ban to perform the exact same activities that got him banned in the first place. We have pretty strict rules about handling banned individuals. DootBeep's account shouldn't have been created in the first place. Xkeeper was given a route to be re-accepted into the community, however he declined in favor of his pride. I will refer you back to this post I made in his ban thread.
His ban has been converted into a site perma-ban. He is no longer welcome here in any capacity.
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The thing is, no specific rule is going to cover weird exceptions like this. Once again, I think we have to stop worrying about coming up with EXACT SPECIFICATIONS which will cover EVERY TAS EVER. I know Warp would love to have a perfect rule template by which could be evenly applied to make judging a more binary, and less amorphous criteria. (Heck, I think that is 90% of the reason he comes to the site) However, this is just not possible. Video games are just bits of programming, and getting to the "End" of one isn't always easily defined - much less what counts as valid way to get there. Additionally, that really isn't the way this site works.
I think something as out-of-the-ordinary as disc swapping for any reason needs to be examined on a case-by-case basis. Required by the game to complete it? Duh. Doing it to create some crazy glitched state that allows you to complete a 4 hr game in 5 minutes? Probably - that sounds awesome.
In this specific case, to skip FMVs, possibly one of the more entertaining parts of a run? I'd vote meh, and certainly not accept a run that only improved on the current one by skipping them using this technique. Generally speaking, optimizing a run is about finding crazy ways to improve the gameplay. Granted, Majora's Mask players have found in game ways to skip cut-scenes. However, there is no question of legitimacy there. A psuedo-legitimate trick to skip FMVs? I'm against it.
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Tompa - forgive my ignorance, but aren't you using the OOB glitch that is forbidden, since the glitched run uses it?
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DootBeep is an alt of XKeeper, who many of you well know was banned by adelikat. The main reason behind XKeeper's ban was for his consistent negative attitude towards TASers, administrators, and anyone else who behaves in a way contrary to his expectations. Xkeeper is of the concept that if anyone does things in a way he disagrees with, then the proper course of action is to berate them.
There are plenty of people who take issue with certain aspects of the site. We aren't a perfect admin team - not by a long shot - we are just doing our best. And, when suggestions are made (that don't require a complete reprogramming of the site) we do our best to accommodate. However, Xkeeper had issue with all aspects of the site, and took advantage of every chance he had to criticize and disparage any person of power. It becomes evident after repeated, unfocused attacks that it is an individuals problem with authority, and not legitimate complaints.
Bizhawk is a labor of love for adelikat, zeromus, and vecna. They have spent the last 6-12 months trying to make it the best cross-platform TAS engine they can. They are not expecting payment, just a certain level of respect. Xkeeper's posts were, in standard Xkeeper form, berating, belittling, and disrespectful to the effort that had been donated. He had the simple option of not using this emulator, or ignoring it. Instead, he sought to attack those who had put effort in.
adelikat told me personally he regrets deleting those posts. However, I ask all of you to reflect how you would feel if someone came and took a giant shit on your hard work, a gift to the TAS community?
DootBeep wrote:
You can ban me all you want, but you're still a horrible administrator, and an even worse developer.
Those facts won't change, even if you try to delete the posts calling you out. Maybe you should just face them for a change.
This is a perfect example - Xkeeper contributes nothing but negativity. He has done nothing to help the site, emulator coding, etc, but is more than willing to denigrate the work of others. Quite sad, actually.
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Cardboard wrote:
DarkKobold wrote:
(ET Baby!)
Actually, fun fact, E.T. was one of the best selling games for the Atari 2600, with a grand total of 1.5 million units sold. With a game going for around 19 dollars, that meant 28 500 000 dollars in the good ol' 1980s.
Only Demon Attack, Space Invaders, Missile Command, Asteroids, Pitfall and Pac-Man sold better for the Atari 2600, technically making E.T. a top game.
Also, I don't think I've had more fun with any other console than the Colecovision and the Track and Field-game found on that console. It's just awesome. And, I do own E.T. for my Atari 2600... It... would not make my top 100.
This I did not know. Seeing as ET and Pac-Man are often blamed for the 1982 video game crash, it isn't surprising. I'm curious if any other shitty game has made the best-selling list of a video game console. Looking at the list of best selling games, TMNT1 for the NES is arguably pretty awful.
Also, I went on a couple dates with a girl who thought ET was the best Atari game. So, it had at least 1 fan.
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Cardboard wrote:
Not counting Atari but counting Collecovision? Makes sense.
Ironically, I can't think of a single notable colecovision title. Most of Coleco's library was composed of arcade ports or ports from Atari. The Commodore 64 on the other hand, probably has some notable exclusives.
Also "Top" is not really a good nomenclature. I assume he means "Best" but even that is sorta silly. By what standards is something "the best?" Most sales? Withstands the test of time? Defines its generation of video games? Had the largest impact on the industry? (ET Baby!) Most replayability? Most entertaining experience?
There are many factors by which to judge a game.
That said, Bible Adventures is the BEST GAME EVAR.
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antd wrote:
yeah true but that glitch doesn't affect my new run :-p
Weird, I wonder why that glitch doesn't occur when you escape from the boss battles.
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You are also forgetting the confound of the double-boss-battle glitch (you discovered!)
I honestly have no idea how to optimize that function.
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Try the speaker on this:
define:gigabyte
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I split off the discussion of FMV skipping. Since it isn't even possible on a TAS-able emulator, it is a moot discussion for this submission.
Anyway, looking forward to watching this in full.
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Warp wrote:
Hoe wrote:
The primary goal here is to make TAS videos that entertain the user.
Yet we have rules for a reason. We don't allow gamegenie codes, rom hacking, we require pure keypress files with no embedded savestates (and thus things like making the run look faster by video editing is completely out of question) and so on. It's not solely about entertainment. It's about quality and standards.
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I'm not sure why the OoT thread is locked - I may have done it in attempt to split the thread, with all the VC/mupen/dekuB crap moved - and then, the site crashed, and I forgot about it, and went on vacation. Or, some other mod saw it getting out of control. Regardless, I'm glad that the new OoT thread is actually worthwhile, and not endless iterations of how to find a loophole in the rules to allow deku on B.
I'll merge it back in a few days. Nothing to do with the current OoT submission.
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When I get back, I intend to move the (J) rule to guidelines. (Or, some enterprising individual could do so.) Ideally, it will change the MUST use (U) ROM to SHOULD use (U) ROM. You'll note that isn't a huge change, but it allows us to include exceptions, such as this run (due to OoT community switch) or due to author's primary language.
adelikat and I have been discussing language issues since the posting of an amazing Dragon Quest 4 run on Nicovideo. Essentially, our rules may be preventing them from submitting. That isn't a situation we want. So, this run brought this change to the forefront, it by no means started the conversation.
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