Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1637)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
Kles wrote:
DarkKobold wrote:
Voted yes. Does this mean another 18 submissions, each 2 -3 frames apart, and 60 pages of arguments?
God damn, shut up.
Ahhh, I feel the love.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1637)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
Voted yes. Does this mean another 18 submissions, each 2 -3 frames apart, and 60 pages of arguments?
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1637)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
Voted yes. It would be nice if some of the hard to follow things (such as being tackled by your own team) were included with subtitles when the run is published. Really cool Glitches.
Also hilarious that you matched the Super Bowl of the year TSB came out.
I doubt they had 2 balls on the field in that game.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1637)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
moozooh wrote:
I think either categories 2&3 or 3&4 should be merged, otherwise we'll spend eternity discussing what category a certain movie would belong to.
The other possible distinction would be:
1) speedruns with universally accepted completion goals (any%, low%, 100%) and scoreruns (for games that have competition in score) — these are judged by technical merits;
2) entertainment (everything that falls outside the scope of the category #1) — these are judged by entertainment merits.
However, I still think both should be voted upon. In case of technical movies, this is to help sorting out sloppy runs. Also, splitting the site in two very distinct categories would allow splitting the ratings evenly, with sole technical rating for tech runs and sole entertainment rating for entertainment runs, and to possibly substitute polls with respective ratings as well. How about that?
I am in 100% agreement. One caveat, movies that aim for speed should still not waste times that could be entertaining, and movies that aim to entertain should not uselessly waste time (IE standing around, things done for entertainment's sake are not counted).
This would rid the entertainment people of pedantic technical assholes like me.
Bisqwit wrote:
I realize that this may sound like a blanket defense, but the site Rules (and Guidelines) are not a work of God. They're not strict and not subject to a debate to the letter. They are an attempt to formulate what we (hopefully everyone, but especially I) feel like is best to guide players towards creating the best movies for this site, and to minimize the chances of conflicts between players.
Barbosa wrote:
They be more what you'd call guidelines than actual rules.
[/quote]
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1637)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
adelikat wrote:
ShadowWraith wrote:
You realise the entire point of a TAS is to entertain, right? Just because this video doesn't show off as much superhuman things as others does not make it any less worthy of being on this site than those.
He was saying that it contains some "time wasters" that aren't superplay worthy (which is a correct assessment). This is quite a different argument than "doesn't show off as much superhuman things".
Also, I resent the assumption that it does not contain as much superhuman things. Most of the video is a series of superplay events.
This is true. There are impressive moments in this TAS. Additionally, I am happy that it did not obsolete the speedrun.
adelikat wrote:
Also, since our movie has no time objective, is it such a strech to take time to do some silly/entertaining/etc things that lengthen the movie? If we were trying to get to the end of the game quickly, I could understand objection to chasing girls, random fights,
It is a stretch, since it doesn't fit in this site. If any of them were super, I would have no objection. You don't have to rush to the end of the game, but you should rush to the next TAS-worthy move.
adelikat wrote:
Also, these things are done very much intentionally to set up the "mood" of the TAS. The first time we chasing girls, for instance, obliterates any concept that we may be in anyway aiming for time. This affects the expectations of the viewer for the rest of the run. So I think these moments are just as necessary as any other thing in the movie.
Uh, especially given the nature of this publication (hint, it is right next to a faster movie) the mood is already set, additionally by the description and submission text. You are almost insulting the intelligence of the viewer by thinking they need to have it explained that the time is not a factor. Likewise, when not performing something super (combos, amazing bugs, amazing jumps, or etc), it still required in the rules to not waste time. That is where moozoh and I are disagreeing, and where this video deviates greatly from the well established and followed rules.
In fact, I was impressed right before you chased the girl by the switching in and out part. That was super, because it required expert timing, and was an obvious time waster, but it still fit with the video.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1637)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
ShadowWraith wrote:
You realise the entire point of a TAS is to entertain, right? Just because this video doesn't show off as much superhuman things as others does not make it any less worthy of being on this site than those.
Uh, the point of the movie Transformers is also to entertain. Does that make the movie Transformers a TAS worthy of this site? (You are improperly using set theory BTW. TAS are in the set of things that entertain, does not mean things that entertain must be a TAS)
Also, it's not that it doesn't show off as many superhuman things, its that it tries to entertain by doing specifically NON-superhuman things. By your logic, any entertaining video game play-back movie should be accepted, even if they didn't use a single re-record.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1637)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
Raiscan wrote:
DarkKobold wrote:
it violates very specific rules, in very noticeable ways.
I thought moozooh had already debunked this claim?
No, he deflected by showing where it didn't break the rules.
The goals of the movie are subjective, not objective, which I've stated over and over.
Entertainment is NOT an objective measure.
Objective:ob·jec·tive adj. Uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices. Based on observable phenomena; presented factually.
ADDITIONALLY,
Irregardless of speed, there are many moments in this run which time is wasted, and nothing 'super' is performed. It is generally accepted to waste time (like MKII) to show off bugs that are impossible or extremely difficult to execute in real-time. Hence, it is super-play, without being "OMG FASTEST EVER"
However, this video diverges. I could punch player 2 in real-time, chase a girl in real time, and other such frivolity. Both of these examples are time wasters, and are not demonstrating anything that a human could not do without extreme difficulty or completely impossible.
I appreciate the technical aspects, such as the bugs shown, the box/pit jumping, the planning required to perform the baseball game. All of those are 'super.' This isn't tool-assisted entertaining videos. This is tool-assisted Super Play movies.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1637)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
While said video has very entertaining parts, I'm not questioning that, it violates very specific rules, in very noticeable ways.
And no, this is NOT a pride movie. Obviously neither author particularly needed another publication, both are very good TASers in MANY other videos.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1637)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
I find it interesting, I've been listening to a lot of music that's been linked to, and generally not greatly enjoyed it. I wonder if a large amount of enjoyment of the music comes from the emotions the video games created when we first played them, and not the music itself...
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1637)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
I did not go into selective reading. I simply highlighted how this video doesn't fit into the rules. It did do combos during the fighting portions, that is fine.
Were it doesn't fit:
Entertainment is neither CLEAR nor OBJECTIVE.
Many things done in the run were extremely OBVIOUS TIME WASTERS.
You didn't address either of these, just showed were it did fit the rules.
Anyway, screw it, the damage is done. It's published were 'real' and 'Objective' speedruns are. I also don't want Adelikat or JXQ to think I'm a bastard because I didn't like this run. So I'm done.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1637)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
Select your goals well
Choose goals that will make the run entertaining. For most games, a “fastest at any cost” mentality is best (short of using passwords, saves, or cheats). For fighting games, autoscrollers, and scoring games, it is usually better to show off as many combos and tricks as possible, instead of going for fastest time.
You are permitted to trade off speed for entertainment, if you want to. Make it so that the speed loss is not obvious to the viewer. Use this with caution.
Examples of other goals that have been popular are pacifist, no damage, all items (usually called 100%), no warps, or runs with a slower character. Not using a specific bug which lets you end the game very quickly can make for an interesting movie, which shows more of the game. The point is that whatever goals you choose, it should look impressive.
Always stay within your goals. For example, if you say that you will obtain all items, obtain all items. Goals must be clear and objective; they must not be vague.
Do not impose artificial restrictions on the run. Such as “No usage of this particular weapon”, “Both high score and fast time” (how should we compare that run to a future one?), or “No jumping except where necessary”. It is possible to set auxiliary goals, such as “as high a score as possible without wasting time”, but, as stated, it must not interfere with the primary goal of fastest completion.
Please note that we do not accept an indefinite number of variants for any given game. Any more than 3 for a game is very uncommon. Most games have only one movie, simply going as fast as possible with any means. A handful of games also have a movie which shows more of the game, such as no warps, or 100% items, or without a glitch that takes you straight to the end.
I think that is what "real" TAS means
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1637)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/976191682/Shining%20in%20the%20Darkness%20%28U%29%20%5B%21%5D.gmv
I sell my armor, and pick up a decent weapon. I'd like to fight Kaiser Krab on level 3 with no armor.
So, I've broken into the first two part of code - the one that decides battles and the one that decides drops. Next step is misses, battle order, and level-ups! It is a lot of fun decompiling a game again, especially given its similarities to the sequel.
However, I'm going to abandon this run most likely, since it is bound to be extremely boring.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1637)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
Really amazing manipulation work. I'm greatly enjoying the fact that you only fight boss battles. One minor thing - You park in front of Rosa's sand town, as oppose to the left, meaning you have to go one step down, one step right, and one step up.
Also, does the amount of exp gained increase/decrease with the number of alive characters in battle? You seem to often have people dead at the end of fights.
I honestly wasn't expecting to enjoy this at all. Definitely better than expected, I went the entire video without fast-forwarding, which is amazing for an RPG. However, this video will NEED subtitles. If you need help with this, let me know.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1637)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
Speaking of cleaning up the code, do you have any plans to release the code to your version of the emulator? Inquiring minds would like to know!
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1637)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
I believe this will be the ONLY way to TAS Shining Force II. Let me explain.
Shining Force II's RNG can ONLY be manipulated based on how long a menu is open. It advances once per frame. In the first fight, we are given 3 characters. If we allow each to only have the menu open for a maximum of 5 seconds (absurd! I know) that is 5*60*3, or 900 options. Additionally, since I have already decompiled the code, only about 10%, or 90 of them result in different actions. Thus, if we test only the relevant and different ones, the dimensionality is far reduced.
There is an additional step however, which is character location on the map. Many people have noted that Genetic Algorithms work best for this sort of decision. This will greatly increase the dimensionality of the problem, but since the dimensionality for other decisions is already extremely low, this shouldn't be a large problem. Thus:
Step one is to TAS the Battle. This gives us a starting point for character movement. Additionally, we can cut any Battle that is more than 10 seconds longer, before that battle even finishes. (Battles under 10 seconds may have more desireable results, either in leveling or entertainment)
Step two is to give the Bot all of the info from the first battle, and let it start making genetic decisions based on that battle.
Step three is to examine the results for entertainment and best levels.
Granted, writing this Bot is a task well beyond my abilities. However, given the trade-off of frames for RNG manipulation, I really think a bot would beat a human TASer, with very low dimensionality.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1637)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
After having LttP: Darkworld stuck in my head, I got to thinking about how great the music is that accompanies our old favorites. So (excluding Halo and Final Fantasy games*), what are your favorite pieces from video games of now and then?
*Titles excluded, because IMHO, they are far above and beyond any normal video game sound track
Oh, and if you haven't heard Dr. Wily's Wedding yet, I suggest you check this out:
http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR01025/
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1637)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
Awesome movie. How did you kill bosses... so fast?
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1637)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
How are screenshots able to contain multiple desyncs?
I know for a fact that a set of screen shots were taken that show a desync BEFORE it would be possible to ever reach another part of the game, given the desync in my run. Does NVA run through the game multiple times?
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1637)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
So painfully slow. He walks like a grandmother trying to get exercise. 'Power step down to Orange Julius!'
Oh, and his unknown quest which no one knew was unknown lead him to a place that only he knew, thinking thought that were unknown to those who didn't know.
I enjoyed the seven minutes I had to rip on the horrid game, so I'm voting yes.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1637)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
I'm not doing 'Ouch' or 'Super' because RPG difficulty is different from normal games' difficulty levels.
To offset your average sidescroller difficulty takes speed and skill. To offset difficulty in an RPG, you simply have to waste time leveling. I don't want to have to kill extra monsters, and possibly even redo battles simply because of a selection at the beginning of the game.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1637)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
Actually, the hold up is that the movie desyncs for DeHackEd right before the last frame. I'm not sure what he is using to encode, but I can't seem to help at the moment, since I'm having a problem dumping AVIs in Gens.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1637)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
Crying laughing at this. Haven't watched the video yet, but thanks for the laugh.[/img]
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1637)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
When creating an AVI w/ sound in gens, the sound is clipped (according to DeHackEd). Volume control seems to have no effect on this.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Skilled player
(1637)
Joined: 11/15/2004
Posts: 2202
Location: Killjoy
I thought it was just a funny typo. I didn't realize it was serious. That totally destroys the joke.
Sage advice from a friend of Jim: So put your tinfoil hat back in the closet, open your eyes to the truth, and realize that the government is in fact causing austismal cancer with it's 9/11 fluoride vaccinations of your water supply.
Crying laughing at this. Haven't watched the video yet, but thanks for the laugh.[/img]