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Posted: 6/17/2018 3:30 PM

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Exonym

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Accepted and sent a file that does the wall clip in PM.

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Posted: 6/17/2018 3:12 PM

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Exonym

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It's because getting this close to the wall requires us to not press any direction. If we do, it immediately ejects you out of the wall. Since our regular jump isn't high enough (our feet don't hit above the bottom tiles of the wall) we cant clip into the wall. If we try drilling after our jump, it also ejects us out of the wall and we can't jump from inside. I did find out that we can use enemies to damage boost high enough to do this, but there is not one around in this spot. That's the only way I know it would work.

Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.

Posted: 6/17/2018 6:12 AM

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Exonym

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Doesn't seem to be reachable. The only thing that comes to mind is getting a double drill, if it exists somewhere that's faster to get to than doing that roundabout method of getting the flame powerup. I'll look around the level and see if I see one. Also, rest in peace miniboss. I actually wasn't expecting it to work! Edit: There's a double drill but it's way after the point you would receive the flame powerup. Seems like it won't be useful here.. Edit again: It seems like we're literally 2 pixels of height away from being able to make that drill up to the flame powerup. I poked the yposition height to 75 (we're only able to get to 77 at the moment) and it just barely made the jump. So if only there was a way to gain 2 pixels when jumping off that platform... It is possible to get one frame landing from inside a wall if we do a downwards drill really close to it. Not sure if you can get it by jumping from beneath. In the spot with the fire powerup you can't jump high enough to reach the wall. Here's a picture of the downwards drill landing:

Then I poked our yposition while jumping as close to the wall as possible, and yes you can clip the side of the wall. But our jump is not nearly high enough to reach that point.

Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.

Posted: 6/17/2018 5:20 AM
(Edited: 6/17/2018 5:25 AM)

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Exonym

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That looks better, I'll take a closer look at it but I don't think I'll be able to improve much. Okay, here's how I can guess to explain this... My thinking is that the layer of water normally damages aero before his hitbox can reach the boss. I'm guessing the boss is always spawned in the bottom right and bottom left corners of the screen but the developers never thought you'd be able to reach it because of the water. But by taking damage, you can now bypass the water plane and reach the boss. It would take someone with some RAM searching experience to prove this theory, but it's what makes sense in my head. By the way, you can murder yourself after the boss is dead. And I tested doing that downwards drill clip on the cymbals, no dice. Doesn't seem like they're constructed quite the same as that instance with the tuba (or french horn or whatever it is).

Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.

Posted: 6/17/2018 4:17 AM

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Thought I was on to something in Disco Fever, I was running here and pressed jump and the game pushes me into the floor for one frame, but sadly you can't do anything with it :/

These level designs are terrible lol. I really wish the horns didn't always shoot you directly into a wall, killing all your momentum. These levels would be so much cooler if you could maintain that momentum somehow. Probably totally irrelevant, but I found a softlock by doing a downwards drill, somehow into this gap.

Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.

Posted: 6/17/2018 1:11 AM

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Exonym

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Okay I've found some weird behavior on the fort redstar boss, in his second phase. If you take damage immediately after falling, for some reason he spawns early, but is invisible. When you hit him here, his sprite comes into view for his hurt animation, and then it disappears, and he rejumps again abit later. I'm thinking, if aero didn't bounce to the right and directly over the water for some reason after hitting the boss... that we could somehow get him stuck in infinitely spawning at the start and never go into his phase where he knocks stuff down from the ceiling. That's the hope anyway. Edit: Wasn't able to get him stuck in a loop like I wanted, but still was able to save 62 frames by taking advantage of these early hits. This is probably a very sloppy version of it, I didn't take much time going over it, but still shows off the trick. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/47853754489222934

Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.

Posted: 6/16/2018 9:32 PM

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Okay, I did this faster than even I expected to. Total savings was 38 frames, and the rest of the run synced up flawlessly, so here it is: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/47849456818214720 Also, that speedrun.com guide mentioned that these Dr dis minibosses die in 1 hit from flame aero. This is something that needs to be tested probably, if the powerup even carries over to the boss screen.

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Posted: 6/16/2018 7:36 PM

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Okay, seems like it doesn't matter since you pass by the first bell at the first frame possible already. I'll just state the improvement then. It comes at frame 8547, I drilled up and left instead of down and left. This gives you more speed before you run off the last platform, and that's enough speed to beat the bat to the ladder (you dont need to jump to distract him now). I had around 13 frames saved by the time I reached the bells but would have to slow down to pass the first one anyway. I'll drop the file here anyway just for future reference.. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/47847693865166046 Edit Sorry to point it out but it seems like you missed a couple of things I mentioned in the earlier post. Probably because I keep editing them every few seconds, lol.

Exonym wrote:

Edit2: Found another improvement, at frame 30367 in my improved file above, press jump. This lands on the very edge of the first star platform which you can then jump off of, and barely make it onto the third one (skipping the second one entirely). You have to drill at the very last second before hitting the spikes (around frame 30466). I don't have enough time to update the entire level, but just wanted to post this improvement before I go to bed.

Obviously the frame count isn't the same now with the improvements in place. The frame to jump seems to be 30343 now. I have to point it out because this was a rather large improvement actually, 20 frames or so. Hmm... the snowball cycle is terrible now... might not actually be a time save overall. Nevermind I've found a new path that involves hitting an enemy and then jumping through the floor.

Exonym wrote:

edit3(sorry): at first glance, a frame can be saved by pressing C at frame 30172, to trigger the trampoline rather than pressing D+L+B the frame before that. It should trigger it 1 frame faster.

I didn't fully test this one out to see if it was actually faster in the long run. Frame is now 30148. Well, I think I'm gonna just implement this and try not to screw up anything, during the middle of this I found a new path and I'm currently like 30 frames ahead or so. I'll update sometime later on tonight probably, try to see if I can sync everything back up.

Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.

Posted: 6/16/2018 6:22 PM

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I think I've found another improvement to bell castle 3 actually, if you don't mind uploading your 8 frames version I can try to tack this in and see how it works out. Looks to be like 10-11 frames faster, but it's before the last bell cycle again so would have to see how that lines up.

Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.

Posted: 6/15/2018 9:36 PM

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arkiandruski wrote:

I'll double check for sync and tackle that trick from Fort Redstar.

If I recall, it desyncs somewhere in fort redstar 3 in my improved version, but it was just one less lag frame in the game throwing off the input. So I just deleted a frame and everything resynced again. Just saying, but apparently that can still happen.

Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.

Posted: 6/15/2018 3:05 PM

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Found some improvement to fort redstar 2. The sliding can be done better with more drills to increase speed when we lose it at the bottom of the slides. Improved by 14 frames or so, but it desyncs a bit later for some reason. Just showing off the improvement, it can probably be used for the other slide parts too, in fort redstar 1 especially. I didn't try it yet. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/47821259961714065

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Posted: 6/15/2018 3:11 AM

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Well as I was trying to figure out the ladder glitches in the genesis version, I found a time save in Bell Castle Act 3. This occurs at the ladder at frame 08693. I found out you can cancel your ladder slide by pressing up. Since we climbed down quite a ways I figured sliding down a bit and then canceling it would be faster. It ended up being about 20 frames faster. But, of course... The swinging bells later on strike again. This time I had to drill to bypass 3 of them. It still came out like 5 frames ahead at that point though so I kept going. lost another frame saved somewhere, I think one of the upcoming ladders. Overall savings was 4 frames, but I'm confident something better can be done if you wanted to take a quick look. Here's the file: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/47810233977187429 Edit: Just downloaded your script r57shell. It seems interesting so I'm gonna take a look in a bit. Edit2: Found another improvement, at frame 30367 in my improved file above, press jump. This lands on the very edge of the first star platform which you can then jump off of, and barely make it onto the third one (skipping the second one entirely). You have to drill at the very last second before hitting the spikes (around frame 30466). I don't have enough time to update the entire level, but just wanted to post this improvement before I go to bed. edit3(sorry): at first glance, a frame can be saved by pressing C at frame 30172, to trigger the trampoline rather than pressing D+L+B the frame before that. It should trigger it 1 frame faster.

Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.

Posted: 6/14/2018 10:20 PM

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I definitely agree, I tend to like the genesis sound style more. I'm just saying that everywhere I go looking at vids of this game, all people ever say is that they prefer the SNES music for some reason. It was exactly the same with the first aero the acrobat game as well. I grew up with a genesis, so maybe I have some kind of bias, but I usually like genesis music more.

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Posted: 6/14/2018 5:59 PM

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I'm not even really sure any of those glitches would really save time, at least without in depth testing. Another difference I noticed in the SNES version is the camera. When you come flying off the wheels in Bell Castle 2, the camera has a hard time keeping up with Aero. This would make that section cooler by maneuvering without being able to see your character for a bit. People seem to prefer the music on the SNES version more for whatever reason. Personally I think the genesis version music isn't that bad, and I like the final fight vs ektor music on the genesis version over the SNES. That being said I think too much work is put in the genesis version already anyway. Maybe the SNES version could be it's own standalone version like you said, because at first glance it seems way glitchier.

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Posted: 6/14/2018 4:11 AM

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I did a little bit of testing and it seems like a lot of the glitches mentioned there are only possible on the SNES version. I tried forever to get the ladder glitch and stuff to work on the genesis version and nothing.. after 2 seconds I did it in the SNES version. Also got the clipping through the floor trick by standing in spikes, you literally just stand next to a wall. Again though, doesn't work in the genesis version that I can tell.

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Posted: 6/13/2018 9:15 PM

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Yeah the disco fever levels were pretty boring designs in my opinion. They are mostly just running right or left. I spent a long time looking for ways to cut out time via clipping, but only found the one case with the double drill.

Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.

Posted: 6/7/2018 10:58 AM

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Yeah the movie syncs fine in 2.2.2. I spent a long time yesterday at the spot you're talking about, and was never able to get through there. That makes me start to believe it might actually be horizontal speed that gets you through. Perhaps it could be a combination of both, but it seems like you at least need more horizontal speed than you're able to achieve at that point. I'm still not convinced it's impossible though, you can get very close to doing it I think, or so it seems. I know that you're able to do it if you clear out those enemies, so if there was a faster way of getting around them, you still might be able to save some time, but they were very much in the way. Edit: I know that it's around 40-50 frames faster to take damage on the first section of star platforms in the third fort redstar stage. The only problem is you don't have enough HP to do the second one, so unless there was some extra "A" you could grab that didn't waste more than 40-50 frames, I guess it's pointless. I still wanted to point that out though in case you overlooked it. Here's an example of it: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/47640901579624369 Edit2:

arkiandruski wrote:

I tested that second place you mentioned. It ended up being slower because you land farther to the right, which means the Aero lands farther to the right on that platform before climbing the mountain.

Well, I found a method for doing it slightly more efficiently. Try using C (downwards drill). It seems like you're able to save about 10 frames because this kills your horizontal momentum and allows you to immediately jump, in a better position too.

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Posted: 6/6/2018 11:42 PM

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Sorry to reply again to this so soon, but I was doing some experimenting, and it seems like it's the "flipping" animation that allows you to clip through the slopes. Which of course comes from having enough horizontal speed. Knowing this, I found a place to use it at about frame 26800 in your file. You need to jump right off the ladder, drill down left into the ground which immediately causes you to run and jump over the enemy. Since I had enough speed this way, I got the flipping animation and low and behold:

This uses the drill to land on the slope immediately, which was used in 1 place very briefly already. Here's the quick file I made showing off this part, I didn't bother trying to sync anything afterwards cause I'm lazy! http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/47629314058586099 Edit: Seems like this insta landing trick can be used at around frame 28320 in your current file. Instead of drilling to the left, wait a few frames from your jump and then drill downwards, similar to the above trick. I think this should save at least a few frames.

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Posted: 6/6/2018 1:38 PM

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Sorry I haven't replied lately, been a bit busy with work. I did see the encode, and the WIP looks nice so far. I promise I'll look at it more closely soon. Also, I was just thinking if someone more skilled in looking at RAM could find out where all the "secret passages" and hidden walls were, that would be a tremendous help in the game. So far there are already a few places we've used it, and I feel like there are some places that we might not know about, potentially in time saving locations. Just a thought. Anyway, good job so far! Edit: So my first thought after seeing the slope clip is that we could use the downwards drill into enemies for height in reaching some of them, but after messing around with this a bit it seems like you need pretty good horizontal momentum also. Unfortunately, we lose all of that when we drill downwards. Here's a picture of what I was trying, I'm still going to test more though:

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Posted: 5/30/2018 11:53 PM

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What version of bizhawk are you using? The file says 1.11.1 but when I load that version the movie desyncs on the beginning of Bell Castle Act 3?

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Posted: 5/26/2018 6:27 PM

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Finding the spawn triggers would be really helpful, as there's another one of those guys in the third boarding zone stage. I wasn't able to find a way to skip that one, but perhaps some precise maneuvers, aided by finding where exactly he spawns in at, could prevent him from spawning also. And I think it was just random luck that I found that. I didn't specifically try to do it, just one of my attempts through the stage made him disappear so I saved that file and then worked around it. That's how I remember it anyway.

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Posted: 5/26/2018 10:24 AM

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I'll probably have to take another look but it had something to do with when you jump off that ramp, I think you fly over his trigger or something.

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Posted: 5/20/2018 6:34 PM

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Just want to point out that there's a double drill (allows 2 successive drills in the air) shortly after the ladder at frame 4342. I think I remember testing this briefly because you can skip one of the wheels in the final segment, but unfortunately the other one was too high to skip and it ended up being slightly slower overall. I think it's still worth looking into though, perhaps it can have use somewhere before that part? Anyway, nice improvements.

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Posted: 5/20/2018 8:50 AM

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So... I was able to save 1 frame using the trick I mentioned in the last post... I think? I get to the ladder 1 frame earlier and this sounded good, I just deleted a frame and everything should sync back up right? Well the enemy we jump over a few seconds later had other ideas. It seems like that 1 frame causes his AI to change slightly and he always jumps right when it's inconvenient. But at any rate, it shows off the bed springing trick I talked about before. If you want to take a look and see if you can convert the extra frame, or even save more somewhere, that's here (I still get hit by the enemy in this version): http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/47238186787493830

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Posted: 5/20/2018 12:47 AM

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Nice to see some renewed interest in the game! In the first stage, I recalled being able to improve my old WIP by just running off the ledge before the bed we spring off of, instead of jumping onto it. If you drill back down into the bed the very frame that you're released from it, you'll get the extended height as if it were two bounces. That being said I messed around with it for a few minutes in your file but I wasn't able to save time. Even so, I think it may have uses in other places. Nice improvements though! I uploaded a file of some quick WIP through a lot of the game that I have had sitting on my computer for a while. I know it's not totally optimized, specifically the snowboarding levels. I'm pretty sure for those levels you want to hit every ramp as much as possible, as being in the air was faster I think... (my memory is fuzzy on this honestly). It does serve as a good comparison file though hopefully so I'll leave it here: http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/47230706369637470 Looking forward to more improvements you come up with, and I might take a peek at some stuff a bit later.

Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.

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